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Thread: I don't need sanity, work in IT (thread) every day

  1. #7581
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Bah.. We just spend ~$3M (AU, so about $1.50 US) doing a 1 for 1 move from our on-prem vmware to AWS. Guess what, it runs exactly the same except there is a ton of extra lag. No cost savings (we actually think it costs a bit more because of the increased amount of network traffic).

    TL;DR, I could have used that money for a new SAN...
    tbh if you're not scaling up and down as needed, AWS can be fairly expensive (especially if you do high traffic). Most of your RL savings are due to turning stuff off after business hours, or when not needed, unlike hosted servers where you can't magically recoup the purchase cost by turning it off.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

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  2. #7582
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post

    This is standard practice. I have had exactly zero training in my whole career.. Technically my only qualification is a cisco ccna which is obviously awesome knowledge for a windows admin. My whole argument has been that I'm a windows admin and AWS is not windows.. Its not even close to windows. Sure, neither is vmware, but AWS isnt vmware either.. Realistically I want the training because it'll improve my ability to get a better job in the long run.
    AWS is a lot closer to vmware than it is from it though. You are still dealing with vms and virtual resources, you just have a different gui and/or api. There are some constraints that are different (but you have different constraints with vmware, so...). I've never been at a place that goes in whole hog and trains you like a pipe fitter, but sure, a course or at least a toy account and an hour a day for a month would and should be fine.

    It would be a very good thing for your career. Just understand that to use cloud is more like learning the vmware suite of products (except you are learning AWS/Google/etc products) and the method of administration is more like specialized dev work than traditional sysadmin work.

    As an aside to the engineering topic above, my empirical data for engineering for elasticity vs. old school is a project that went from $ 2.4 mil operating cost/ year (ignoring staff, this is just support/depreciation, power, cooling, network, etc.) to about a $ 240k /year AWS (well, googles cloud actually, but the cost is not dissimilar) costs. It took learning (and embracing) docker and about 6 months of engineering (its a big application, like 13 sub systems, including a big data component). The engineering effort paid for itself the first year plus some profit.
    Thats great for just 1 app, especially if you are the owners and developers of that app.. We have 170(ish) apps and own and develop none of them. Hell, about half of them were developed by companies/people that no longer exist and most of the other half are so old that the vendors wont even talk to us anymore. Very very few of these are 'web apps' as well, the vast majority are traditional 'install on server, run a configuration wizard and everything else is hard coded' service based apps.. I mean we literally still have 2 apps that require a licensing dongle in a serial port to start up..

    I also found out that our DBA is refusing to use the AWS images with SQL baked in and has requested an x1.32xlarge instance for one massive fuck off SQL database, so you can kinda see from that how the rest of the deployment went. (I literally recomended everything be deployed as t2.small and then things that were underperforming or could not run be scaled up, but no one listens to wintel so whatever)
    Last edited by Lana Torrin; January 14 2017 at 01:45:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  3. #7583

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    Honestly if you're going all-in on AWS just swap out any RDBMS for their databases services*. Takes care of the automagical scaling for you by charging per usage. About 20% more expensive than managing scaling yourself but scaling DBs is hard.

    *Figuring out which one is the correct one may take a while. Beware this is lock in of the worst kind, but you're already drinking the kool aid.

  4. #7584
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Well there's Amazon RDS, which sometimes you need (for instance, your third party app has some kind of retarded dependency on oracle's geolocation code inside its database)

    edit: actually RDS doesn't have geolocation so in that particular case you're fucked, I guess you'll be installing O11G in EC2 then
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  5. #7585
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Oh.. Also I have either hit a win or I'm gong to get fired over this, but I'm refusing to support it until I get training.. So far it means all my access has been removed and I only have to support the OS. I'm hoping this doesn't mean I'm next out of the door.
    This is retarded of their part. Basically bullying you into supporting something you're not fully trained to do.

    Rest assured, it happens in my field too. I'm senior enough to actually carry a middle grade bleep and I've been asked to, however if shit hits the fan properly and people die guess who's in deep shit. So I've refused consistently, albeit I've been put down for it via mockery more or less implying I'm unwilling to work.

    Fuck them. If you're fired, you wouldn't have wanted to work for them anyway, this is not acceptable practice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is standard practice. I have had exactly zero training in my whole career.. Technically my only qualification is a cisco ccna which is obviously awesome knowledge for a windows admin. My whole argument has been that I'm a windows admin and AWS is not windows.. Its not even close to windows. Sure, neither is vmware, but AWS isnt vmware either.. Realistically I want the training because it'll improve my ability to get a better job in the long run.
    Well tbh you need to look more after yourself in that case. There are literally a bajillion courses out there with qualifications and diplomas at the end that you can take yourself or get your company to send you to.

    This way, in case they want to make you redundant, at least they'll think twice with all the dough invested in you, plus you'll have all that shiny stuff to put on your CV.

    I'm not trying to be patronising, and you know I'm at least a bit right there.

    Brofist, hope it all goes well for you


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  6. #7586
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Hit up CloudAcademy.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  7. #7587
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    None of you are telling me anything I don't already know.

    I guess my point is, I'm finally making a stand about being shoveled even more shit and expected to just deal with it. They haven't thought enough about me to give me a pay rise since I started working here, or even any actual feedback for my review this year, so they can just try and employ a cloud engineer and then find out how much this stuff actually costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  8. #7588
    Movember 2012 ctrlchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    None of you are telling me anything I don't already know.

    I guess my point is, I'm finally making a stand about being shoveled even more shit and expected to just deal with it. They haven't thought enough about me to give me a pay rise since I started working here, or even any actual feedback for my review this year, so they can just try and employ a cloud engineer and then find out how much this stuff actually costs.
    Hire me to engineer clouds


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  9. #7589
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    None of you are telling me anything I don't already know.

    I guess my point is, I'm finally making a stand about being shoveled even more shit and expected to just deal with it. They haven't thought enough about me to give me a pay rise since I started working here, or even any actual feedback for my review this year, so they can just try and employ a cloud engineer and then find out how much this stuff actually costs.
    So learn AWS and get a job at a better place, and use these sad sacks as an opportunity to play around on AWS on someone elses credit card. It doesn't hurt you at the end of the day. Great work experiences in IT are possible, but you sort of have to get yourself into the right situation. And to be clear, my advice to you is that you will have more opportunity in the future with aws (and if you learn that, all the others will be easy) that with vmware, which you can always fall back on. Its cost efficiency and the march of progress.

    Even the old legacy stuff is possible in AWS, especially when you get into hybrid solutions ("Oh, that old Burroughs machine, yeah, the company bought that in '76 and its vital. Do you know COBOL?") where some weird, impossible-to-do-anything-else-with stuff lives in a datacenter and the parts that can be moved to cloud are. This is architecture stuff though, and its not something you would generally just give to an engineer (especially just a sysadmin, nothing personal or anything, but there will need to be development on any kind of effort like this) and say, make it so. You are right.

    Doing this properly and successfully IS costly, but its giving the application another ten+ years of life potentially, and the spend pays for itself if you do the spend. You can see through their bullshit, and you realize they are in for a shock, so use it as a learning experience and remember that the best time to make mistakes is when you are spending other peoples money.
    Last edited by erichkknaar; January 14 2017 at 02:58:55 PM.
    meh

  10. #7590

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    18 K1 grid cards delivered today for the VDI cluster.
    Huzzah.
    If only we could find some way to generate electricity from terrible posting. - Steph

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