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Thread: I don't need sanity, work in IT (thread) every day

  1. #8441

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    The cloud is not going to fix your executives believing sales lies.
    Bingo.

    Years back someone smart told me the cloud secret: It's great for anything commodity (at our scale) but as soon as you need any special, it's going to be a catastrophe as they stack em high and sell em cheap. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something (that won't work).

    We are on our 2nd tender process for a phone system and are having to put in big letters in the front "cloud vendors need not apply". they don't understand why we are unwilling to spend upto half a million pounds a year to rent a service we could buy outright for ever, for the same price, including the handsets!
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  2. #8442
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    The cloud is not going to fix your executives believing sales lies.
    Bingo.

    Years back someone smart told me the cloud secret: It's great for anything commodity (at our scale) but as soon as you need any special, it's going to be a catastrophe as they stack em high and sell em cheap. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something (that won't work).

    We are on our 2nd tender process for a phone system and are having to put in big letters in the front "cloud vendors need not apply". they don't understand why we are unwilling to spend upto half a million pounds a year to rent a service we could buy outright for ever, for the same price, including the handsets!
    Conversely, you can do some other things much cheaper now using the cloud, in a way that materially used to require millions in pure startup cost before, so the lines where the rented service becomes more expensive never ever converge and there is never a clear incentive to owning. Granted a lot of that depends, but when there are things like handsets in play, you are "buying" something anyway.
    meh

  3. #8443
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    As evil as cloud is, you actually have the tools to do this in place so it's a lot easier and better. I don't hate cloud I just hate the cloud everything mentality. It's a really good tool that when implemented properly is invaluable. But it's not the silver bullet of IT.
    No, the "implemented properly" qualifier is p important.
    It is, I've seen some terrible cloud implementations that cause far more issues than they solve. I've seen admins that have no idea how those whole network access thing works and just set it to allow all traffic, and then wonder why they are hosting spambots.. I've even seen an actually proper elastic web app get deployed at a huge cost, only to have it never scales past 1 tiny instance because it gets hit about 3 or 4 times in a month..

    My favorite cloud project I was ever involved in (and fortunately I was just a worker drone doing the basic level building as it wasn't my project or client) was to shove a legacy desktop app in to AWS. The vendor even told us they had assisted 4 other companies to migrate the app to AWS previously and while all 4 were successful, within 6 months all 4 had reverted back to on-prem as the app just didnt run well in the cloud.

    Turns out it didnt run well because it connects to about 4 billion databases across the company and across external vendors, all of which needed to respond reasonably quickly. First processing run it did after being migrated took 17 hours (it usually took about 15 mins). Adjustments were made and they (because I wasnt involved in that bit) got the time down to under 10 hours.. The solution they came up with? Cloud the databases. Ok cool, done.. Didn't take long.. Now its processing time is down to under an hour which is fine. But now we have about 2 dozen apps that used to be running in the same infrastructure as their databases running on the other side of the country. They are now ALL running like shit.

    The solution was obvious.. Cloud the apps! OK done.. Some of them run on OSs that AWS doesnt support but if we dont tell them and we keep quiet about the licensing we got them all working.. Nice. Now they all run so much better.. But now they are running on the other side of the country than the users.. So now we have to CLOUD THE USERS!! (ie, implement workspaces).

    Turns out that after budgeting for moving a single app and having to move 20+, plus hundreds of databses, plus setting up a whole workspaces infrastructure and then setting up the actual workspaces, quite a lot of them being 3d accelerated workspaces, and then the file storage space for all of those users (because having that local also made everything slow).. The cost of the project and the running cost FAR exceeded estimations and also FAR exceeded just purchasing 2 new vmware hosts and dumping the old VM on to the new hardware (and continuing to pay for rack space that they continued to have to pay for either way anyway).

    Rolled back in 8 months.. So I guess they did 2 months longer than anyone else.

    My point was even with a 'proper' implementation this would have still been a bad choice of things to push to the cloud. The only benefit it offered was potentially paying less for rack space (which in the end it didn't even mange to do because of the stupid contract they had signed 3 years previous) and the costs were stupidly high. The 'correct' solution for this would have been a hardware upgrade and likely nothing more. It would have been significantly cheaper and quicker and they would have ended up with the same result they had. Clouding this app was not the solution.
    The cloud is not going to fix your executives believing sales lies.
    Would plusrep, am on mobile. I think we are now on the same page
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

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