I don't need IT, ipads fuck ralara every day (IT thread)

[Irrelephant]

I just don't see it happen, considering the amount of big players out there relying on java. The shit storm it would break loose would be something else.

O'RLY?

because that looks exactly like the kind or precedent Oracle wanted to set there.

Well my point kinda, oracle is gonna face heavy resistance for any greed induced move they want to try.

i dont agree with you on having the ability to create a "custom style", it invites breaking of the OS conventions and all sorts of problems with the interface, certainly there's edge cases where that's a good thing to be able to pull off, but it should under no circumstances be encouraged or as easy as Java tends to make it, because no matter what you do its always going to end up being a second class citizen in the OS and give a awful experience to the user.

One of java's strong points is portability, with that in mind the way things are may make a bit more sense to you. I don't even think it is feasable to create a cross plattform gui framework that behaves truly native on every different OS out there. Prolly why the focus has been on webapps (no not the applet kind) for years now.

(another lovely Java related gem, Windows has right and left mouse button swapped, but the java application in question does not and does not support it, what do you tell the user ?)

I dunno, submit a bug report? No clue if just dev fail or missing java feature, prolly the later.

programmings biggest problem is that 90% of all coders are utterly shit, and 90% of those shit coders believe they are in the top 10% and try to code accordingly.

Indeed, you can exploit that for detection tho. When i was in charge of job interviews i always asked "on a scale from 1 to 10, how would you rate yourself?". If the answer was 9 or 10 i knew a faildev was sitting in front of me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

[Liare]

Well my point kinda, oracle is gonna face heavy resistance for any greed induced move they want to try.

nobody sane is going to base their future business strategy on the combination of Oracle driven greed and judicial retardation levels, the chance of failure are just too damn high.

One of java's strong points is portability, with that in mind the way things are may make a bit more sense to you. I don't even think it is feasable to create a cross plattform gui framework that behaves truly native on every different OS out there. Prolly why the focus has been on webapps (no not the applet kind) for years now.

both GTK and Qt manages about a billion times better than Java, and that's basically C frameworks, and open source stuff as well. (we dont need no stinking documentation! here's the code, read that!)

java might be "great" because its portable, but honestly how much does it gain from that portability ? cross compiling is at this point trivial, and to give the end user a reasonable experience you almost have to do the UI from the bottom up catering to that specific device. you're not going to load a stuffy mouse-and-keyboard UI into a smart phone, or a touchy-touchy-feely UI into a desktop with any degree of success, and even between desktop OS's there's a lot of difference to the point where doing the classic java act of "rolling your own" is just going to give everybody a equally bad experience.

I dunno, submit a bug report? No clue if just dev fail or missing java feature, prolly the later.

submitted, and last i had access to that bug tracker, set to pending... for three years that is.

[Irrelephant]

Well my point kinda, oracle is gonna face heavy resistance for any greed induced move they want to try.

nobody sane is going to base their future business strategy on the combination of Oracle driven greed and judicial retardation levels, the chance of failure are just too damn high.

We will see what happens, i don't think it's realistic. Too many major companies have their entire product stack based on java. Simply saying let's use something else because fuck oracle is not something easily done once you reach a certain size. They will fight with all they got imo.

One of java's strong points is portability, with that in mind the way things are may make a bit more sense to you. I don't even think it is feasable to create a cross plattform gui framework that behaves truly native on every different OS out there. Prolly why the focus has been on webapps (no not the applet kind) for years now.

both GTK and Qt manages about a billion times better than Java, and that's basically C frameworks, and open source stuff as well. (we dont need no stinking documentation! here's the code, read that!)

java might be "great" because its portable, but honestly how much does it gain from that portability ? cross compiling is at this point trivial, and to give the end user a reasonable experience you almost have to do the UI from the bottom up catering to that specific device. you're not going to load a stuffy mouse-and-keyboard UI into a smart phone, or a touchy-touchy-feely UI into a desktop with any degree of success, and even between desktop OS's there's a lot of difference to the point where doing the classic java act of "rolling your own" is just going to give everybody a equally bad experience.

Well this is going nowhere, let's wrap this up. Your point was that the java gui per default is a terrible unresponsive piece of shit. Which is simply not true. Also that java app's could not decide on wether to display in java or native os style. Developer's choice. Now we argue about portability. I get it, you don't like the java look&feel, neither do i. In regards to .Net, GTK, Q (bloat me up baby) it certainly is somewhat outdated. As i mentioned above, the focus in java, when it comes to ui, has been on webapps for a good while now as it solves most of those problems and then some. How much does java gain from portability? Alot imo, i certainly came to appreciate that i can use the same jar everywhere without having to care for cross plattform issues while developing.

I dunno, submit a bug report? No clue if just dev fail or missing java feature, prolly the later.

submitted, and last i had access to that bug tracker, set to pending... for three years that is.

Nice vendor you got there. You can keep him.
Honestly from what you described so far that must be one shitty company.

[Liare]

if only it was ONE company, but its the same style of idiocy on eight separate products, all relying on Java for their UI shit.

[mjukis]

I'm not sure how useful this is but I figure that some of you might find this interesting/useful. It's a source code review/thing of the Quake 3 engine. They are also available for the other ID tech engines.

http://fabiensanglard.net/quake3/index.php

[Daneel Trevize]

Companies rewriting their core products in Java and then Web 2.0 isn't exactly the fault of the languages, other than they make it easy enough to do this and remain profitable/successful.

[Liare]

I'm not sure how useful this is but I figure that some of you might find this interesting/useful. It's a source code review/thing of the Quake 3 engine. They are also available for the other ID tech engines.

http://fabiensanglard.net/quake3/index.php

ID Software doing it right non-shocker.
the games might not be "that" good but the tech is mind-blowing most of the time, and Carmack is probably one of our generations greatest coders.

[Lana Torrin]

So.. back to IT related things...

Some of you may remember that last weekend while I was on call my RSA key expired preventing me from logging in by remote.. This pissed off my manager (as no notification is ever made that this has happened, so it takes us a few hours to work out what the fuck has happened, and our internal service desk seem to have no viability to the system to check that) and so it was decided that I would finally get bumped up the queue to get an RSA token to prevent this happening again.. The request was made for this on Thursday.

RSA token processing is done in Melbourne, and I got a job notice for this.. It worked its way through provisioning and on Friday, the provisioning job was closed (presumable meaning it has completed). Now despite Perth being a capital city, we are quite small and a decent distance from the rest of Australia, so mail usually takes a few days to get here... Plus it was the weekend..

This morning I come in and my newly generated RSA key which I got on Monday of last week has been expired. My RSA token is likely sitting in a mail bag at Melbourne airport and wont be here for at least a few days..

Nice one service desk..

Call logged.. It will take them at least half the day to respond to it.. Don't have a call number that I can push up to a manager yet because the IVR that says 'please leave your username, contact details and brief description of the problem' doesn't actually log the call, although I trust it more than the service desk to not screw its bit up.

[omeg]

Anyone using Trac, is there any patch to allow assigning multiple components to a ticket? My google-fu seems weak today.

[Lana Torrin]

Fuck windows with a Fucking rake. Fuck.

[Ophichius]

Fuck windows with a Fucking rake. Fuck.

I agree with this sentiment. But do you care to elaborate any?

-O

[Ralara]

ITIL Foundations course felt like a foreign language class. Simple concepts hidden behind an absolute butchering of the English language. I assume so you have to take the courses to pass the exams.

That said, we all know common sense is not common, so sacking all the dummies is a pipedream. Better to embrace the overhead than deal with the average drone/IT worker trying to figure out the best way on their own imo

(and yes, I am on the management path. Lol. Although via the data center, not the service desk thank god)

ITIL is evil and must be stopped.

[Ralara]

lolol redundancies in the air AGAIN (2nd round of em) they want to remove 6 more people from IT...

management have just ordered 170 ish iPhones to replace the blackberries they got at the start of the year because they like the 170 ipads we just got them which are locked down ONLY to allow them to view e-mails.

They currently have:

Laptop
nokia phones
a blackberry
an iPad3 (which is used purely for e-mails)
and now they want iPhones


i dont want to even imagine the cost of that.

and then they're like lolol make 6 people redundant.


EDIT: about £120k actually. Hmm, about 6 people's wages. Odd, that.

[kzig]

Number Crunching!

[SteeleResolve]

lolol redundancies in the air AGAIN (2nd round of em) they want to remove 6 more people from IT...

management have just ordered 170 ish iPhones to replace the blackberries they got at the start of the year because they like the 170 ipads we just got them which are locked down ONLY to allow them to view e-mails.

They currently have:

Laptop
nokia phones
a blackberry
an iPad3 (which is used purely for e-mails)
and now they want iPhones


i dont want to even imagine the cost of that.

and then they're like lolol make 6 people redundant.


EDIT: about £120k actually. Hmm, about 6 people's wages. Odd, that.

You sound like our company in about 6 months. We haven't bought the iphones (yet) but there will be about 200 of them (not locked down at all). Hope the redundancies don't happen though.... GL regardless mate!

[SteeleResolve]

Also, you don't need to do a course to get ITIL foundation. A book and a few practice tests will be fine.

[jonesbones]

ITIL Foundations isn't too bad. And it's great for companies that have seen massive amounts of inefficiencies due to piss poor management and unproductive staff.

I'm beating ITIL into my department slowly but surely.

[Cydo]

ITIL Foundations isn't too bad. And it's great for companies that have seen massive amounts of inefficiencies due to piss poor management and unproductive staff.

I'm beating ITIL into my department slowly but surely.

Done the Foundation and RCV course, I found RCV pretty interesting and useful for the day job.

I'm actually helping my team do things we have never done (or the company has either) around release&deployment/knowledge management.

[Equium Duo]

I am watching IT crowd again and thinking of you all. Much lols are being had!

[Aea]

ITIL Foundations course felt like a foreign language class. Simple concepts hidden behind an absolute butchering of the English language. I assume so you have to take the courses to pass the exams.

That said, we all know common sense is not common, so sacking all the dummies is a pipedream. Better to embrace the overhead than deal with the average drone/IT worker trying to figure out the best way on their own imo

(and yes, I am on the management path. Lol. Although via the data center, not the service desk thank god)

ITIL is evil and must be stopped.

I like their pamphlets, especially Visible Ops.