Meet the next President of the United States

[elmicker]

How do voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? You should prove you are allowed to vote at that location and that you are who you claim to be.

And what's wrong with a list of names? Why should you have to prove you are who you say you are?

[Tellenta]

Paul supporters having to resort to these measures to simply be heard (and the response called in to silence them) should be among the earmarks of American decline.

Support Paul or call him/his supports lunatics or nutbags, whatever. There's no other way to define what happened there besides political repression.

So when republican's disenfranchise people with voter ID laws it's ok? But when cops rough up an old white dude with a prosthetic hip it's world ending stasi repression?

How do voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? You should prove you are allowed to vote at that location and that you are who you claim to be.

And in my state they only cost $11 and are good for 6 years.

Don't even try the poor people argument. A case of cheap beer costs that.

Yeah! There should be nothing wrong with paying small amount of money to have the ability to vote. It's just like having a small tax at the polls, a "poll tax" if you will.

Lets not even mention how republicans in Florida are making lists of people to be restricted from voting, and actually following through with it. These lists of people are full of people that should be able to vote considering they fall under the basic requirements, U.S. citizen, resident, and registered. Hell one of the people they had on the list was a WW2 veteran who was born in the U.S and had been living where he is for quite a while.

[Don Rumata]

How do voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? You should prove you are allowed to vote at that location and that you are who you claim to be.

And what's wrong with a list of names? Why should you have to prove you are who you say you are?

Because Freedom, that's why! You are asking people who fight for more restrictive ID laws, yet at the same time demand less restrictive gun laws and legalization of drugs.

Speaking of less restrictives gun laws... Do you know that during the Tampa convention in Florida there is no limitation on carrying of firearms? If you think Paultards breaking hips is hilarious, just wait for thousands of republicans in Florida, in August, all of them packing heat. During the hurricane season, also too.

[Tellenta]

How do voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? You should prove you are allowed to vote at that location and that you are who you claim to be.

And what's wrong with a list of names? Why should you have to prove you are who you say you are?

I think what people are missing out on is the fact that this adds a special cost for a special thing to be able to vote. The argument that people should have to be able to prove who they are to vote is a false argument as people have always needed to show an ID of some sort. In Michigan my voter ID is given to me when I register my new address at the secretary of state for free. This fact is ignored simply due to the fact that the voter ID laws are an untenable requirement unless you ignore that fact. Then you add on the timing of this whole thing, it's right before an election and changing the requirements to vote at this time is basically illegal. People should be getting locked up for trying to pull this shit.

[elmicker]

In the glorious police state of the united kingdom i just walk to my polling station, tell them my name and they give me the voting card. End of. I don't see why one should have to prove their identity beyond their own word to be allowed to vote; it's not like impersonation is rampant.

[Chrien]

If Takon is for liberty and freedom then how can he be for ID cards.... hypocrite

[Tarminic]

In the glorious police state of the united kingdom i just walk to my polling station, tell them my name and they give me the voting card. End of. I don't see why one should have to prove their identity beyond their own word to be allowed to vote; it's not like impersonation is rampant.

Because here in the US VOTING FRAUD IS RAMPANT!!!!!*

*Not actually true

[Tellenta]

In the glorious police state of the united kingdom i just walk to my polling station, tell them my name and they give me the voting card. End of. I don't see why one should have to prove their identity beyond their own word to be allowed to vote; it's not like impersonation is rampant.

Here in Michigan one of our incumbent republicans is being investigated, and may be prosecuted for fraud. The reason, he failed to get enough signatures to get him on the ballot in reaction to this either he or his supporters or both forged and photocopied a great many signatures to get on the ballot. There is occasional voter fraud in the U.S. it however has very little to do with what this voter I.D. law is supposedly for.

Some basic reading, they are PDF's and may load slow depending.

http://brennan.3cdn.net/45b89e6d1485..._i2m6bhcv9.pdf

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/...ed%20stats.pdf

Considering most of the voter fraud found was either a clerical error or performed via absentee voting the arguments behind toughening the requirements to be allowed to vote is questionable at best, and undemocratic at worst.

[Nordstern]

In the glorious police state of the united kingdom i just walk to my polling station, tell them my name and they give me the voting card. End of. I don't see why one should have to prove their identity beyond their own word to be allowed to vote; it's not like impersonation is rampant.

Because here in the US VOTING FRAUD IS RAMPANT!!!!!*

*Not actually true

Why improve the system/country when you can dominate the discussion by clogging the legislative agenda with your party's platform, then complain that the opposition is doing nothing?

[Takon Orlani]

How do voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? You should prove you are allowed to vote at that location and that you are who you claim to be.

And what's wrong with a list of names? Why should you have to prove you are who you say you are?

Voter ID laws protect liberty because they protect the abuse of the democratic process.

If you really are opposed to having to pay for an ID, then pass legislation in your state that provides FREE ID's to everyone over age 18.

Edit: I feel some of you are mixing the issues a bit...
By protecting the integrity of the process, you maintain the 1:1 person to vote ratio...
I'd say someone voting 3-4 times (or however many times they can hit up the polls in one area) steps on the liberties of the others who follow the rules. Not to mention people who can currently "vote" even though they are not citizens.

I could also reference the straw poll we did here on FHC to make us the "Best online community" where everyone voted 10x a day to make us come to the top...

[Don Rumata]

How do voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? You should prove you are allowed to vote at that location and that you are who you claim to be.

And what's wrong with a list of names? Why should you have to prove you are who you say you are?

Voter ID laws protect liberty because they protect the abuse of the democratic process.

If you really are opposed to having to pay for an ID, then pass legislation in your state that provides FREE ID's to everyone over age 18.

This confirms that Takon is even more retarded that anybody thought. This video is from Project Veritas, the outfit run by James O'Keefe, who famously uses selective editing and outright fraud. In one of the videos he tries to show that he obtains the voting papers of a Dead Person, but cuts the part of the conversation where poll workers clearly states that the papers are for Dead Person Jr., who is very much alive.

He is actually being investigated by New Hampshire Attorney General for actual voter fraud and for videotaping said "fraud" without consent, which is illegal in New Hampshire. He also admitted that he knew that instances of "voter fraud" weren't actually fraud at all.

And then there is episode where he tried to lure CNN correspondent onto his boat and "seduce her on camera", using "dildos", "playboys and pornographic magazines", "fuzzy handcuffs" and, most importantly, "Viagra and stamina pills".

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/okeefe.cnn.prank/

[Frug]

This confirms that Takon is even more retarded that anybody thought. This video is from Project Veritas, the outfit run by James O'Keefe, who famously uses selective editing and outright fraud. In one of the videos he tries to show that he obtains the voting papers of a Dead Person, but cuts the part of the conversation where poll workers clearly states that the papers are for Dead Person Jr., who is very much alive.

He is actually being investigated by New Hampshire Attorney General for actual voter fraud and for videotaping said "fraud" without consent, which is illegal in New Hampshire. He also admitted that he knew that instances of "voter fraud" weren't actually fraud at all.

And then there is episode where he tried to lure CNN correspondent onto his boat and "seduce her on camera", using "dildos", "playboys and pornographic magazines", "fuzzy handcuffs" and, most importantly, "Viagra and stamina pills".

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/okeefe.cnn.prank/

I didn't need to know all that to notice how he's a complete douchebag in the video who is intentionally annoying the wrong people with questions they obviously don't have the answers to and aren't supposed to know.

I really hate that. It's like some trendy hipster anti-establishment thing that they do. Like how in the Kony video he starts asking his 6 year old kid what he thinks about genocide in Africa and what to do about Kony. Because that's mature.

And I don't even think asking for some form of ID is a big deal. How can you not have any sort of ID at all? Here they will take anything with your photo on it. I think they also mail you a card that you need to show but I forget. Makes no sense to me why it's a big deal for anyone.

[erichkknaar]

This confirms that Takon is even more retarded that anybody thought. This video is from Project Veritas, the outfit run by James O'Keefe, who famously uses selective editing and outright fraud. In one of the videos he tries to show that he obtains the voting papers of a Dead Person, but cuts the part of the conversation where poll workers clearly states that the papers are for Dead Person Jr., who is very much alive.

He is actually being investigated by New Hampshire Attorney General for actual voter fraud and for videotaping said "fraud" without consent, which is illegal in New Hampshire. He also admitted that he knew that instances of "voter fraud" weren't actually fraud at all.

And then there is episode where he tried to lure CNN correspondent onto his boat and "seduce her on camera", using "dildos", "playboys and pornographic magazines", "fuzzy handcuffs" and, most importantly, "Viagra and stamina pills".

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/okeefe.cnn.prank/

I didn't need to know all that to notice how he's a complete douchebag in the video who is intentionally annoying the wrong people with questions they obviously don't have the answers to and aren't supposed to know.

I really hate that. It's like some trendy hipster anti-establishment thing that they do. Like how in the Kony video he starts asking his 6 year old kid what he thinks about genocide in Africa and what to do about Kony. Because that's mature.

And I don't even think asking for some form of ID is a big deal. How can you not have any sort of ID at all? Here they will take anything with your photo on it. I think they also mail you a card that you need to show but I forget. Makes no sense to me why it's a big deal for anyone.

It isn't. Except for poor black and Hispanic people who don't have cars (ok, ok, there are some poor white people too, but they all tend to have pickup trucks), or old people who don't drive anymore. Drivers license is by far and away the most common ID in the states. If you don't have a drivers license, there is even less chance you will have a passport.

It's a bunch of assholes trying to increase their chances of not being blown out in the election because if they succeed, they get to keep opposition voters at home. In some towns and counties, this only needs a couple hundred vote swing.

[Frug]

It's a bunch of assholes trying to increase their chances of not being blown out in the election because if they succeed, they get to keep opposition voters at home. In some towns and counties, this only needs a couple hundred vote swing.

I don't know if I can really get all up in arms about something that excludes people with no license or passport and can't manage to get some ID. I do get the whole 'right to vote' argument that anything that has a chance of excluding someone who can't scrounge up the time or $10-$20 every few years to get a piece of valid photo ID is bad... But the other side of me wonders how accommodating we should be for people who can't even manage that. I guess we can assume they're voting democrat? I guess? Unless they're not? Ehhh...

From here, I can say that I don't have a problem setting the bar as low as requiring some form of ID. I suppose I'm an insensitive prick who wants to exclude the most downtrodden of individuals from participating in democracy.

[Keorythe]

who can't scrounge up the time or $10-$20 every few years to get a piece of valid photo ID

You don't even need to renew every few years. Most of these types of voter ID laws will accept any form of approved ID whether it's expired or not. South Carolina and a few other states even have certain days that you can schedule to be picked up, driven to the DMV, and driven home. Wisconsin offers free state ID's.

What gets me is that there are very very few legitimate reasons to not have a valid ID. Make a bank account? ID. Collect a welfare check? ID. Rent an expensive house or even get into low income housing? You need ID. Unless you're a newly recognized adult of 18 still living at home, you would have to be seriously leeching off of someone to handle your entire livelyhood to get by without ever having some form of ID. Lost your ID? You can order a replacement online, by telephone, or even through the post office.

[Fitzy]

If Takon is for liberty and freedom then how can he be for ID cards.... hypocrite

Yeah the idea of a Paul supporter being ok with an ID requirement to vote is pretty LOL.

Seriously Takon try and critically analyse that shit for a second rather than just regurgitating whatever crap the Paulites spew your way.

[erichkknaar]

It's a bunch of assholes trying to increase their chances of not being blown out in the election because if they succeed, they get to keep opposition voters at home. In some towns and counties, this only needs a couple hundred vote swing.

I don't know if I can really get all up in arms about something that excludes people with no license or passport and can't manage to get some ID. I do get the whole 'right to vote' argument that anything that has a chance of excluding someone who can't scrounge up the time or $10-$20 every few years to get a piece of valid photo ID is bad... But the other side of me wonders how accommodating we should be for people who can't even manage that. I guess we can assume they're voting democrat? I guess? Unless they're not? Ehhh...

From here, I can say that I don't have a problem setting the bar as low as requiring some form of ID. I suppose I'm an insensitive prick who wants to exclude the most downtrodden of individuals from participating in democracy.

I think an ID requirement for voting is fine. It's just the current provisions for ID in the states are terrible. I used to have a green card. That shit was high tech. Multi-layer pressing and fingerprints with holographic embossing and shit. Card probably cost $400 or something. Bank would not accept it. Had to get a drivers license to open a bank account. A national ID card would be the answer, but that would rate just slightly lower than Gay abortion and real gun laws in terms of the amount of retarded sperge it would generate.

You don't even need to renew every few years. Most of these types of voter ID laws will accept any form of approved ID whether it's expired or not. South Carolina and a few other states even have certain days that you can schedule to be picked up, driven to the DMV, and driven home. Wisconsin offers free state ID's.

What gets me is that there are very very few legitimate reasons to not have a valid ID. Make a bank account? ID. Collect a welfare check? ID. Rent an expensive house or even get into low income housing? You need ID. Unless you're a newly recognized adult of 18 still living at home, you would have to be seriously leeching off of someone to handle your entire livelyhood to get by without ever having some form of ID. Lost your ID? You can order a replacement online, by telephone, or even through the post office.

Because driving 98 year old granny Daisy to the DMV in Shitfuck, Alabamastan to get a licence she wouldn't be able to legally get is such a realistic option. Just because some people look the other way on an expired drivers license doesn't make it a legal, government issued ID. She's a citizen, she should be allowed to vote without putting her life in jeopardy. Again, there are not a whole lot of realistic options for some people to get valid government issued ID in the states.

[Tellenta]

It's a bunch of assholes trying to increase their chances of not being blown out in the election because if they succeed, they get to keep opposition voters at home. In some towns and counties, this only needs a couple hundred vote swing.

I don't know if I can really get all up in arms about something that excludes people with no license or passport and can't manage to get some ID. I do get the whole 'right to vote' argument that anything that has a chance of excluding someone who can't scrounge up the time or $10-$20 every few years to get a piece of valid photo ID is bad... But the other side of me wonders how accommodating we should be for people who can't even manage that. I guess we can assume they're voting democrat? I guess? Unless they're not? Ehhh...

From here, I can say that I don't have a problem setting the bar as low as requiring some form of ID. I suppose I'm an insensitive prick who wants to exclude the most downtrodden of individuals from participating in democracy.

The biggest problem is that it is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. If they really wanted to do something to protect from voter fraud they really need to look at electronic voting and absentee voting. That's where the risk sits.

Basically they want to change things away from this

Valid photo identification, such as a driver's license or state identification card, student identification card, or tribal identification card
A voter identification issued by a county elections officer, or
A copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or government check or other government document

to this

Specific forms of ID are not listed in statute. ID must be issued by the state of Indiana or the U.S. government and must show the following:

Name of individual to whom it was issued, which must conform to the individual's registration record
Photo of the person to whom it was issued
Expiration date (if it is expired, it must have an expiration date after the most recent general election; military IDs are exempted from the requirement that ID bear an expiration date)
Must be issued by the United States or the state of Indiana

While not a big deal in the grand scheme of things it is one of the many little things and if it steps on someones toes for when they want to vote then it's a bad idea. It's not like people can show up to vote with zero need to show who they are now. They just want to change it so it costs more money I guess.

[Keorythe]

Because driving 98 year old granny Daisy to the DMV in Shitfuck, Alabamastan to get a licence she wouldn't be able to legally get is such a realistic option. Just because some people look the other way on an expired drivers license doesn't make it a legal, government issued ID. She's a citizen, she should be allowed to vote without putting her life in jeopardy. Again, there are not a whole lot of realistic options for some people to get valid government issued ID in the states.

Drivers license and State ID are two different things. Every state issues a State ID that is easy as hell to get. 98yr old granny can use her expired DL from 1975 to get a brand new State ID online, by telephone, or post mail. There is no looking the other way either. ID is ID and it's not being used as a taxable license like a drivers license. State ID's have long expiration dates and are pretty easy to replace as long as you've had one in the past. Like ancient fucking past will get you a State ID. When it comes to voter fraud, State ID's of dead old people are used because they last for so long. Why? Because in most states, if you're over 60 you NEVER have to renew your State ID. Your argument is also flawed in that somehow, worst case scenario, you attribute driving grandma to the DMV or County registrar office as life threatening but driving her to a poll station is not.

[lt]

As long as they don't change it for next election but for the one after that, so that people have time to fix new ones then I don't see what the problem is?

Here in socialist Sweden a id-card is required. Can be normal id-card, passport or driverslicence. Think it costs somewhere between 8-20 dollars I think.