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Thread: CMANO : FHC High Command edition

  1. #1
    Liare's Avatar
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    CMANO : FHC High Command edition

    Well folks, Mrenda posted up something on the Discord i'd like to give a shot.

    it is essentially a community-driven lets play, where i, as your humble host will take the role as your aide/advisor and tactical control center, your job, fellow FHC'ers, is to work out the strategy and the confines of what i am allowed to do, we're using CMANO and the "Deter, Detect, Defend 1962 - CF-105 version" Scenario as a jumping off point, this is a early scenario, meaning less jamming shennanigans, and it's only 8 hours, letting us dip in and try. i will endevaour to provide "stops" to allow y'all to decide things at least once a hour, and if anything significant comes up. it also gives us the never-build CF-105 Arrow that certain canadians are still whining about getting cancelled.

    what we're going to do, is the community's problem to figure out, by strawpoll vote if need be.


    mission briefing is as follows

    Defending North America, August 1962

    Even before the 1963 Cuban Missile Crisis, a big fear of North Americans was the threat of manned bombers attacking from the Soviet Union. Concern over a "Bomber Gap" and "Missile Gap" and worry over the vulnerability of American cities to nuclear attack were very real. School kids and adult workers alike practiced "Duck and Cover" drills as the immediate action should an atomic attack occur. Government, business and private fallout shelters were everywhere, many stocked with food and water in anticipation of an attack. And civil defence authorities drummed it into the population that an attack could happen at any time and with very little notice.

    In 1958 the United States and Canada created the North American Air Defence Command (NORAD) and although the Canadian military contribution was minor compared to that of the USAF, by virtue of geography Canada was essential to America's air defence and was an equal partner in the NORAD command structure. Both the RCAF and USAF Air Defense Commands were subordinated to NORAD HQ.

    NORAD's motto and Mission Statement was Deter, Detect and Defend. It was to remain a model of a successful bilateral defence treaty for decades.

    In this scenario, you are Commander of NORAD Region 25 headquartered at McChord AFB near Tacoma WA. A full scale nuclear attack is anticipated and DEFCON 1 has been ordered. You will get radar information from stations including those on the Pinetree Line as well as radar picket ships and aircraft over the Pacific ocean. The crisis has escalated into nuclear war very fast so your interceptor squadrons are largely at peacetime alert status. This was generally two aircraft at Ready +5, two or four at Ready +60 and the remainder unarmed and unready unless conducting training flights.

    Release of nuclear weapons has been authorized and confirmed by the National Command Authority. We do not know or care what sequence of political or military events spawned this full-scale nuclear war or even which side is actually striking first.

    Defend the named cities in the Pacific Northwest and British Columbia from the incoming Soviet bombers. SAC has commenced offensive operations in accordance with SIOP-62 so there are no tankers or EW assets to support your mission but the Army's Nike Hercules batteries have been placed under your command in accordance with the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) system.
    Tasking Brief

    TOP SECRET

    NORADOPO 08-241 212052Z AUG 62

    FROM: CINC NORAD

    TO: CO NORAD 25 REGION HQ MCCHORD AFB//F-90DC AADCP FT LAWTON WA//HQ 13 NAVAL DISTRICT SEATTLE//HQ I CORPS FT LEWIS WA//RCAF STN COMOX

    CC: 318 FIS MCCHORD AFB//64 FIS PAINE AFB//460 FIS, 123 FIS/PORTLAND AFB//322 FIS KINGSLEY AFB//AWIS 409 RCAF COMOX//WHIDBEY ISLAND NAS//PLOT COORD RCAF KAMLOOPS

    BT

    1. DEFCON 1 IN EFFECT FROM RECEIPT OF THIS MESSAGE. THREAT OF NUCLEAR ATTACK BY SOVIET FORCES CONSIDERED REAL AND IMMEDIATE. THE ASSESSMENT IS THAT NUCLEAR ARMED BOMBING FORCES ARE INBOUND FOR TARGETS IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST OF THE UNITED STATES AND PROBABLY CITIES IN CANADA. THE THREAT FROM BALLISTIC MISSILES IS UNKNOWN AT THIS TIME.

    2. MISSION CONFIRMED. DEFEND MAJOR POPULATION CENTRES IN YOUR AO FROM SOVIET BOMBERS AND MISSILES.

    3. RELEASE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS IS AUTHORIZED REPEAT AUTHORIZED. EMCON STATUS AT YOUR DISCRETION. AIR DEFENSE WEAPONS FREE.

    4. INITIAL SOVIET STRIKES AGAINST ALASKA AIR DEFENSE ZONE APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AND IT IS ASSESSED THAT MINIMAL ATTRITION OF INCOMING BOMBER FORCES MAY BE EXPECTED. MOST DEW LINE STATIONS ARE NO LONGER REPORTING FOR REASONS UNKNOWN.

    5. ARMY AIR DEFENSE MISSILE BATTERIES IN THE SEATTLE/PUGET SOUND AREA SUBORDINATED TO NORAD REGIONAL COMMAND UNDER PROVISIONS OF SAGE. HQ I CORPS IN FORT LEWIS HAS ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY FOR CIVIL DEFENSE IN THE URBAN CENTRES OF WA AND OR.

    6. INTERCEPTORS ARE NOT TO OPERATE WEST OR NORTH OF THE SECTOR-25 COMBAT ADIZ WITHOUT COORDINATION AND APPROVAL OF HQ NORAD.

    7. HQ 13TH NAVAL DISTRICT WILL PROVIDE UPDATES AS NAVAL ASSETS PERMIT.

    8. GOOD LUCK. CINC NORAD SENDS.

    ET

    TOP SECRET
    our assets are primarily aircraft, the "Kenneth D. Bailey" Gearing class sitting off Seattle is a FRAM 1 and thus not equipped with anything that can meaningfully engage nuclear bombers, it's job is to act as radar for us, here is the strategic map. note that the red line in the ocean marks the US maritime border, red markers are explained below, Yellow arrows are expected enemy attack vectors. Nike Batteries are placed near Seattle and are range denoted by red circles.



    1. is a USN Warning Star AWACS plane, it's job is the same as the Gearing.

    2. is RCAF Comox, there are 16 CF-105 Arrow Mk. II there Callsign Nighthawk, Magazines are not sufficient to provide AIM-7's to all reserve jets.


    3. Whidbey Island NAS, home of the EC-121 Warning Stars, this is not assets we control.

    4. is Paine AFC, 18 F-102A Delta Daggers, Callsign Red.


    5. is McChord AFB 18 F-106A Delta Darts, Callsign Dragon, note the F-106A can carry the AIR-2 Genie and has it available.


    6. is Fort Lewis, US Army Base with Helicopters, not assets we control.

    7. Portland AFB (KPDX) this is a combined Civilian/Military facility and hosts 18xF-102A Delta Dagger callsign Tiger and 18xF-89J Scorpion callsign Red Falcon, note only the F-89J can carry the AIR-2


    8. is Kingsley AFB, 18xF-101B Voodoo's. callsign King.


    first decision that has to be made is EMCON (Emissions Control), ROE (Rules of Engagement) and Initial arming and tasking.

    *dons the advisor hat*

    i would recommend putting EMCON on active, some Radars (checkerboard boxes are unit groups, those with A underneath them are Radars) are already on as denoted by the white circles and the enemy is attacking us. expect a deluge of civilian tracks as the feed starts coming in, but there might be soviet bombers among them, meaning you should consider having ROE be TIGHT initially (target identification required first). traditionally fighterjets operate in pairs for mutual cover, however we can specify smaller or larger flights, this option should be considered given the nature of the opposition. you can designate armaments personally, or hand the task off to the squadrons themselves. (meaning i will do it)

    the way i see it, there are three basic options commanders.

    1. we can simply scramble everything as it becomes ready, and use short turnaround times to refuel as quickly as possible, each jet would have a airborne time of roughly 1-2 hours on loiter, fuelling, and less if it is is chasing a track to identify it and use patrol zones as rally points. note that fuelling and rearmament takes 2 hours minimum.

    2. we can launch individual flights and as one expends their weapons another is launched.

    3. we can point-launch individual flights at individual tracks, best-guessing the on a per target basis, flights will fly out to the target, do as doctrine dictates and return to land.

    options 1 and 2 requires you to designate patrol areas and prosecution areas, any polygonal shape will do. the patrol area is where the jet will fly around when it has no tasking, and anything entering it's procecution area will be investigated and if needed engaged.

    the opposition composition is unknown, but intelligence indicate the majority of strategic VVS-ADD assets have been mobilized, expect a combination of free-fall and cruise missile equipped attackers of the following types.

    Myasishchev M-4 "Bison" Bomber
    Tupolev Tu-22 "Blinder" Bomber
    Tupolev Tu-16 "Badger" Bomber
    Tupolev Tu-95 "Bear" Bomber

    intel suggests that Bison,Badgers and Blinders are going to be coming down the pacific coast, while Bears take a long swing out over the ocean to come at us from a eastern direction, armaments is unknown, but expect especially Bears to be loaded with AS-3 Kangaroo Nuclear tipped cruise missiles launched from well outside our viable engagement range.

    the fate of Seattle and Vancouver is in your hands FHC, don't let them die in nuclear fire, so if you're a option 1/2 kind of FHC'r, get out your paint skillz.
    Last edited by Liare; November 2 2019 at 07:11:55 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  2. #2
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    I'm aboard if we get some more people for this

  3. #3
    Liare's Avatar
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    that's my hope, on a side note FHC, this scenario can be done, first attempt, without a single nuke reaching either Canadian or American soil.

    edit : note, i am leaving this for at least a week before we do anything, there is no rush and there is no such thing as stupid questions or anything of the like, the one thing i would say is that don't get too ambitious with the zone sizing, the jets can and do run off to chase shit half a continent away given the chance, it's a quirk of the AI.

    and you're welcome too Razor, even if you're gonna be cheering the russians here
    Last edited by Liare; November 2 2019 at 07:07:11 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  4. #4
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Option #4

    I am concerned by these developments, but I choose not to employ nuclear air-to-air missiles out of concern for the environment.

  5. #5
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Option #4

    I am concerned by these developments, but I choose not to employ nuclear air-to-air missiles out of concern for the environment.
    you can simply specify in your plan that the squadrons are to exclude AIR-2 Genies from their loadouts, they would have to take existing jets with them onboard off the line complicating initial operations a bit, but FHC is in charge, so if that's what you decide, then that is what we will do.

    it doesn't really affect the initial strategic stance of surge versus sustained patrols or point-intercepts though.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  6. #6
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Option #4

    I am concerned by these developments, but I choose not to employ nuclear air-to-air missiles out of concern for the environment.
    you can simply specify in your plan that the squadrons are to exclude AIR-2 Genies from their loadouts, they would have to take existing jets with them onboard off the line complicating initial operations a bit, but FHC is in charge, so if that's what you decide, then that is what we will do.

    it doesn't really affect the initial strategic stance of surge versus sustained patrols or point-intercepts though.
    so are you gonna run multiple plans through the scenario? or just one plan we all have to agree on?

    The second option would be more comedic to have a bunch of manchildren arguing about a strategy sim

  7. #7
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Option #4

    I am concerned by these developments, but I choose not to employ nuclear air-to-air missiles out of concern for the environment.
    you can simply specify in your plan that the squadrons are to exclude AIR-2 Genies from their loadouts, they would have to take existing jets with them onboard off the line complicating initial operations a bit, but FHC is in charge, so if that's what you decide, then that is what we will do.

    it doesn't really affect the initial strategic stance of surge versus sustained patrols or point-intercepts though.
    so are you gonna run multiple plans through the scenario? or just one plan we all have to agree on?

    The second option would be more comedic to have a bunch of manchildren arguing about a strategy sim
    the second option obviously, half the fun is going to see people argue out the plans.

    i am going to sit this one out because i know how it works and ends, so my input would be tantamount to cheating, but maybe in the future...
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  8. #8
    mewninn's Avatar
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    I don't have a good sense of how fast these shitters can fly across the map. Or the various times to rearm, refuel, etc

    Also I'm wikipedia'ing the planes, is the CF-whatever really such a shitty interceptor that it only has 360 nmi combat range? Seems bad

  9. #9
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    I don't have a good sense of how fast these shitters can fly across the map. Or the various times to rearm, refuel, etc

    Also I'm wikipedia'ing the planes, is the CF-whatever really such a shitty interceptor that it only has 360 nmi combat range? Seems bad
    Not for the 50s.

    Genies blotting out the sun. You know its the only option.
    meh

  10. #10
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    I don't have a good sense of how fast these shitters can fly across the map. Or the various times to rearm, refuel, etc

    Also I'm wikipedia'ing the planes, is the CF-whatever really such a shitty interceptor that it only has 360 nmi combat range? Seems bad
    Not for the 50s.

    Genies blotting out the sun. You know its the only option.
    scenario sucks, give me f-15

  11. #11
    Liare's Avatar
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    if people are actually interested in this, we can do another scenario afterwards, community gets to pick then, but without knowing how this pans out a simple one, like this is the best option to start tone.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #12
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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    Scramble the six available Nighthawks with orders to kamikaze into the enemy bombers if necessary. Set them to cruise at 36,000ft heading Ketchikan.

  13. #13
    Neoo Gabriel's Avatar
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    Hi,

    If I may suggest:

    Option 1.

    Single circles are assigned loiter/CAP locations.

    Double circles are locations for wings (of 2 planes) to wait while waiting for results of intercepts (if available).

    Launch all ready planes as they are at mission start. Assign all parked and non-ready airplanes load-outs as you see fit

    Note:
    As planes launch from (8) in the south, re-base them to Portland. This will allow for better patrol times.

    Question: I can't turn on the canadian land based radars. How to?

    Previous to edit and mission inspection, disregard:
      Spoiler:


    1. EMCON Active for long range pickets, AWACS, ship and all land radars.

    2. Use long range picket flights of 2x planes to patrol the single red circles (load them with IR missiles). The red lines suggest feeder bases to them (longer endurance planes/configs preferred). These old planes have limited endurance at long ranges so we want to send as few planes as possible out there until we have positive tracks on hostiles. If there are too many tracks to identify, send another flight of 2x planes to replace the investigating first flight, and so on, as planes become available.

    3. The double red circles will be the holding patterns for flights of 4x planes (max loadouts, your discretion as to what) as viable to keep on BARCAP loitering station close to base ready to be sent on intercept on short notice. If nothing is detected, keep all other planes on ready 5 with loaded weapons (I see that most planes are not armed - start arming them ASAP).

    4. Keep at least 4 planes per base with the nuke missiles to be scrambled when large groupings of contacts are detected (there can be no mis-identification in that case - Afterburner sprints towards them for the AOE kills, no return home except boat pickup - because of range issues at high speed).

    5. AWACS to follow red line patrol pattern.

    Question: It would be nice if you could mark the max range launch of the cruise missiles so we know where to put the ID pickets if needed (closest launch radius for cruise missiles to be launched at seattle), and also it would be nice to know the max range circle for each base's planes if possible.

    Additional Questions: Can we make use of certain rules/assumptions? There is no civilian traffic at high altitude outside of previously known air corridors.
    Can we assume planes flying at low altitude on incoming vectors and military speed to be hostiles?
    Can we ignore all outgoing contacts to eliminate those as possible things to ID (probably outgoing civilian traffic)?
    Is it possible for hostiles to attack overland from the north? This will save planes from having to CAP that direction.
    Last edited by Neoo Gabriel; November 3 2019 at 11:24:38 PM.

  14. #14
    Liare's Avatar
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    *dons advisor cap*

    so the fighters get a free hand on their intercepts ? (that can be overridden from command) or does the red line denote the intercept range limit ? (so any contacts, regardless of status are ignored until they cross said line)

    the Canadian Radars are on, this what you get as we're limited to units and facilities wired into SAGE, it's also why we cant see any civilian tracks yet, there is no cross-link to civilian ATC. welcome to the 60's!
    Last edited by Liare; November 4 2019 at 07:28:22 AM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  15. #15
    Neoo Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    *dons advisor cap*

    so the fighters get a free hand on their intercepts ? (that can be overridden from command) or does the red line denote the intercept range limit ? (so any contacts, regardless of status are ignored until they cross said line)

    the Canadian Radars are on, this what you get as we're limited to units and facilities wired into SAGE, it's also why we cant see any civilian tracks yet, there is no cross-link to civilian ATC. welcome to the 60's!
    *dons armchair admiral hat*


    Let me do a disclosure: I downloaded and ran this scenario after I made the above post. Doesn't really change my opinion on what to do. I still cannot turn on the Canadian Land Radars - there is a spoiler surprise from that, but its survivable. If you are getting full view form those land installations it will probably give you much better visibility and reaction time.

      Spoiler:




    The red single circles are the loiter areas for interceptor wings (2 planes each). You can let them act alone or micro manage intercepts - whatever you think is best (I micro managed and don;t know how to automate it). You probably don't want to fly them farther because of range issues? And if the CAP areas are too close to targets you may not have enough time to dispatch further wings if you go winchester.

    I would say, if a wing is at an outside circle patrol area, and a contact is made further out, you would send those planes to investigate and launch a replacement wing to that same circle area. If the first wing ends up engaging, at least their replacement is already on the way - you can then use the second group to attack/investigate anything else (and then send a 3rd group to replace it), or let it go for the CAP are as the first group investigates/attacks something else or Returns to base. There are only 8 hours of combat, so each plane will not see more than 2 sorties anyway.

    Please disregard the line on (1).
    Last edited by Neoo Gabriel; November 5 2019 at 04:15:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Someone GMs CMANO. Player immediately spoils it for himself

    a tale as old as time


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  17. #17
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neoo Gabriel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    *dons advisor cap*

    so the fighters get a free hand on their intercepts ? (that can be overridden from command) or does the red line denote the intercept range limit ? (so any contacts, regardless of status are ignored until they cross said line)

    the Canadian Radars are on, this what you get as we're limited to units and facilities wired into SAGE, it's also why we cant see any civilian tracks yet, there is no cross-link to civilian ATC. welcome to the 60's!
    *dons armchair admiral hat*


    Let me do a disclosure: I downloaded and ran this scenario after I made the above post. Doesn't really change my opinion on what to do. I still cannot turn on the Canadian Land Radars - there is a spoiler surprise from that, but its survivable. If you are getting full view form those land installations it will probably give you much better visibility and reaction time.

      Spoiler:




    The red single circles are the loiter areas for interceptor wings (2 planes each). You can let them act alone or micro manage intercepts - whatever you think is best (I micro managed and don;t know how to automate it). You probably don't want to fly them farther because of range issues? And if the CAP areas are too close to targets you may not have enough time to dispatch further wings if you go winchester.

    I would say, if a wing is at an outside circle patrol area, and a contact is made further out, you would send those planes to investigate and launch a replacement wing to that same circle area. If the first wing ends up engaging, at least their replacement is already on the way - you can then use the second group to attack/investigate anything else (and then send a 3rd group to replace it), or let it go for the CAP are as the first group investigates/attacks something else or Returns to base. There are only 8 hours of combat, so each plane will not see more than 2 sorties anyway.

    Please disregard the line on (1).
    you must be fucking up your EMCON settings because i am not getting these issues, remember it's 60's era radars, they suck, and you just disqualified yourself, not that the plan presented is bad and it should, imo be in the running, but it's not really fair to participate if you know how the actual scenario plays out. (much like i am sitting out as well)
    Last edited by Liare; November 5 2019 at 08:40:23 AM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  18. #18
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Rep cannon is firing blanks, someone cover Liare for me.

    Where's the Posadist option?

    Busy day at work so far but will have a proper read of the scenario later
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  19. #19
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    just launch a counterstrike against russia and ignore their bombers its what shoulda happened anyways



    we're living in the weird alternate timeline where the usa and ussr didn't obliterate each other

  20. #20
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    just launch a counterstrike against russia and ignore their bombers its what shoulda happened anyways



    we're living in the weird alternate timeline where the usa and ussr didn't obliterate each other
    there is a companion scenario where you get to play with NORAD bombers, but lets do this first, see how it goes and do a community vote on the next one!
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

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