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Thread: Vladimir I Lenin Megathread: I've seen worse

  1. #121
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    If you don't trust incompetent governments, and you don't trust corporations why the fuck do you think nuclear power is anymore an option now than it was before. Yes reactors are safer, but human error can occur. Population density and energy needs are usually linked pretty closely, so there are going to be more people around new reactors, and even a small mistake can be incredibly dangerous. If nuclear was the only option to turn to, I'd understand support, but there are many others, and many more innovations to be made before using that. You think an energy company wouldn't cut costs in a plant if we started building a lot? Are you lot forgetting the rampant greed that these people display at all times?
    What makes you think these same incompetents will have any success deploying clean energy?
    Hes not suggesting we will, just that the consequences of their failure will be less severe.

  2. #122
    Liare's Avatar
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    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  3. #123
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Saw some footage from the Leningrad NPP using the same RBMK-1000 reactor as Chernobyl from 1996. Fascinating stuff. Steam where coming up from the graphite moderators as a technician was scurrying around on top of the reactor listening in with an elongated stethoscope. Yeeees yes yes. All in a days work. And in the canteen the lady behind the counter used an abacus. A friggin abacus. A few rooms next to her they where splitting atoms while she was shifting her beads back and forth to calculate the change for the workers meals.

    Russians. You have to love the mad bastards.
    this may be familiar (steam about 24:35, for reference)
    Last edited by Sparq; May 26 2019 at 02:55:01 AM.

  4. #124
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    If you don't trust incompetent governments, and you don't trust corporations why the fuck do you think nuclear power is anymore an option now than it was before. Yes reactors are safer, but human error can occur. Population density and energy needs are usually linked pretty closely, so there are going to be more people around new reactors, and even a small mistake can be incredibly dangerous. If nuclear was the only option to turn to, I'd understand support, but there are many others, and many more innovations to be made before using that. You think an energy company wouldn't cut costs in a plant if we started building a lot? Are you lot forgetting the rampant greed that these people display at all times?
    What makes you think these same incompetents will have any success deploying clean energy?
    How many windmills are gonna fall off and start mowing people down for miles and miles. Are solar plants going to magically turn the sun to the surrounding country side and burn them to ashes? Are the geothermal plants going to drain the core of the earth of energy? Or will it be tidal power angering Poseidon?

    Oh wait no renewable energy source is dangerous to the level of nuclear power, even ill maintained.

  5. #125
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    The technology and minerals required to produce renewables actually create a huge amount of environmental devastation plus toxic and radioactive waste that we simply don't care about because it's all being done in places like China or Africa.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019...earth-elements

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2015...place-on-earth

    https://phys.org/news/2018-09-scient...cobalt-dr.html
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; May 26 2019 at 11:03:46 AM.

  6. #126
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    if wales is going to insist on being the size of everything bad, it needs to stop making things worse than they need to be and be smaller. it's about time we get to the root of these issues ffs.

  7. #127
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    you do however need quite a lot of area under windmills to replace one npp
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  8. #128
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    you do however need quite a lot of area under windmills to replace one npp
    you'd have to be Erich levels of bad to have them all fail catastrophically enough to render the area uninhabitable, at the roughly the same time.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  9. #129
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    you do however need quite a lot of area under windmills to replace one npp
    you'd have to be Erich levels of bad to have them all fail catastrophically enough to render the area uninhabitable, at the roughly the same time.
    Well, perhaps the nuance is that you probably wouldn't want to put either super close to much habitation. There's still plenty to mine in energy transmission, and improving the flow of energy between regions and countries so we can make building huge, high pressure pipes full of toxic, flammable liquid all over the countryside, obsolete. Also, shipping it.

    Of course, this is going to completely fuck countries with stupid monoproduct (oil) export markets, or whatever, and so effort is going to have to occur to diversify those economies first.
    meh

  10. #130
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    you do however need quite a lot of area under windmills to replace one npp
    you'd have to be Erich levels of bad to have them all fail catastrophically enough to render the area uninhabitable, at the roughly the same time.
    Well, perhaps the nuance is that you probably wouldn't want to put either super close to much habitation.
    There's few places in the US where you could put a reactor and not endanger water/food supplies since the US is a giant crisscross of aquifers and rivers

  11. #131
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Also I'm not really anti-nuclear, but if the gist of the show is that you wouldn't trust rotting Soviet institutions, then you definitely shouldn't trust the average American corporation who runs these things
    Last edited by mewninn; May 26 2019 at 11:00:29 PM.

  12. #132
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Also I'm not really anti-nuclear, but if the gist of the show is that you wouldn't trust rotting Soviet institutions, then you definitely shouldn't trust the average American corporation who runs these things
    No.
    meh

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    The whole point is that there is no 'best fit' option. Windmills leave large tracts of land unusable, the processes required for extracting and refining the materials required for turbines and solar panels cause pollution and people die installing them. You seem to be happy with a slow drip of deaths and environmental damage environmental damage rather than a big event once in a generation which probably does less harm overall.

    When a dam collapses and wipes out thousands in an instant people don't go calling for an end to hydropower.


  14. #134
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    The whole point is that there is no 'best fit' option. Windmills leave large tracts of land unusable, the processes required for extracting and refining the materials required for turbines and solar panels cause pollution and people die installing them. You seem to be happy with a slow drip of deaths and environmental damage environmental damage rather than a big event once in a generation which probably does less harm overall.

    When a dam collapses and wipes out thousands in an instant people don't go calling for an end to hydropower.
    Its so nice then that there is a consensus on the number of deaths due to Chernobyl its only somewhere between 4000 and 985 000..... Not to mention we still have highly radioactive wild game in Scandinavia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths...nobyl_disaster

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    The whole point is that there is no 'best fit' option. Windmills leave large tracts of land unusable, the processes required for extracting and refining the materials required for turbines and solar panels cause pollution and people die installing them. You seem to be happy with a slow drip of deaths and environmental damage environmental damage rather than a big event once in a generation which probably does less harm overall.

    When a dam collapses and wipes out thousands in an instant people don't go calling for an end to hydropower.
    Its so nice then that there is a consensus on the number of deaths due to Chernobyl its only somewhere between 4000 and 985 000..... Not to mention we still have highly radioactive wild game in Scandinavia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths...nobyl_disaster
    Are you stupid?


  16. #136
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    The whole point is that there is no 'best fit' option. Windmills leave large tracts of land unusable, the processes required for extracting and refining the materials required for turbines and solar panels cause pollution and people die installing them. You seem to be happy with a slow drip of deaths and environmental damage environmental damage rather than a big event once in a generation which probably does less harm overall.

    When a dam collapses and wipes out thousands in an instant people don't go calling for an end to hydropower.
    Its so nice then that there is a consensus on the number of deaths due to Chernobyl its only somewhere between 4000 and 985 000..... Not to mention we still have highly radioactive wild game in Scandinavia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths...nobyl_disaster
    Are you stupid?
    Care to elaborate?

  17. #137
    Venec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    The whole point is that there is no 'best fit' option. Windmills leave large tracts of land unusable, the processes required for extracting and refining the materials required for turbines and solar panels cause pollution and people die installing them. You seem to be happy with a slow drip of deaths and environmental damage environmental damage rather than a big event once in a generation which probably does less harm overall.

    When a dam collapses and wipes out thousands in an instant people don't go calling for an end to hydropower.
    Its so nice then that there is a consensus on the number of deaths due to Chernobyl its only somewhere between 4000 and 985 000..... Not to mention we still have highly radioactive wild game in Scandinavia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths...nobyl_disaster
    Are you stupid?
    Care to elaborate?
    He's delusional.

  18. #138
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Really good timing to release a series like this demonizing nuclear power at a critical moment when we desperately need to get off fossil fuels asap.
    Guess we'll just die then.

  19. #139
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    cocking up a windmill installation won't leave a area the size of wales uninhabitable for one.
    The whole point is that there is no 'best fit' option. Windmills leave large tracts of land unusable, the processes required for extracting and refining the materials required for turbines and solar panels cause pollution and people die installing them. You seem to be happy with a slow drip of deaths and environmental damage environmental damage rather than a big event once in a generation which probably does less harm overall.

    When a dam collapses and wipes out thousands in an instant people don't go calling for an end to hydropower.
    Its so nice then that there is a consensus on the number of deaths due to Chernobyl its only somewhere between 4000 and 985 000..... Not to mention we still have highly radioactive wild game in Scandinavia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths...nobyl_disaster
    Are you stupid?
    Care to elaborate?
    He's delusional.
    I forgot he have had 3,6 Rontgen, not good, but i have seen worse.

  20. #140
    dzajic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Really good timing to release a series like this demonizing nuclear power at a critical moment when we desperately need to get off fossil fuels asap.
    Guess we'll just die then.
    Nuclear could have been solution. 30 years ago. If done with Hygam G Rickover levels of OCD and paranoia.
    For majority of population Japan is "the" hightech country that can do no wrong. Fukushima was the final nail.

    And anyway, lead time on a decent NPP is 10-15 years if you work fast. And if you add in fuel long term storage or reprocessing, prices are already nothing really special compared to renewables. Where will they be compared to renewables in 10 years God knows.

    Once again, if you decide to build a new NPP now you will get first electricity from it in some 10-15 years. Even if you went for solar concentrator thermal, which is among most capital intensive of "Clean" solutions, you will still be ready much before the NPP. Most other renewables will be ready in 2 to 3 years.

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