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Thread: Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker

  1. #561
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    Honestly, i didn't think it was too bad. Certainly full of plotholes but the actors were mostly good and the end was satisfying.
    I don't know what people want more of their space fantasy.
    Coherent writing start to finish for a TV Series? This is not about Star Wars, it's about how most TV shows nowadays just seem written by different people with different ideas without a clear direction towards the actual scope of the thing. And see the vid above about how KK micromanaging Kenobi drove McGregor up a wall in frustration (and with good reason).

    Also Kenobi, lil' Leia and Aunt Beru carried this show and are now probably hospitalized due to intractable back pain.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  2. #562
    Alistair's Avatar
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    /shrug

    I enjoyed it, despite it's flaws.

    My brother and I have enjoyed debating the lore flaws here and there, so also a positive that we can nerd out together about it.

    Overall, nothing fatal to my overall Star Wars fandom here.


  3. #563
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked
    If you compare Kenobi with The Boys - since they've been running in parallel - there's absolutely a huge difference in the quality of writing and overall quality and not in the favour of Kenobi - and bear in mind the source material for The Boys is absolutely horrible.

    The last episode had some good bits but the series overall made me incredibly jaded going into it. I feel episode 5 was better if only for the flashback fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Why was the last episode trash? Because it puts characters into situations where they act unreasonable for their character development. Why didn't Kenobi kill Vader? It's just dumb, he was down, exposed, clearly Anakin was dead. Ah, because there was cut material that had Qui Gon tell Obi Wan there is still good in him - this may have changed the perception. As it is, it's horrible. Reva just spares Luke because the script makes her go from unhinged evil person cutting off people's hands to "ah she's actually good" without any good reason. She survived the Jedi Temple youngling purge to go on and be raised by the Sith and still she maintained a moral compass? Really? I can't tell in the show why that would be a thing except for the script needing her to be like that.

    Also, the biggest gripe I have with the series - dude, in episode IV Leia states in the message to Kenobi that she asks him for help because Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars with her father. She doesn't know she's adopted. She doesn't have the memory of running around being kidnapped with Kenobi rescuing her when she was 10 yo. It's just bad writing top to bottom.

    Characters don't develop unless the script needs them to suddenly find their strenght or something. They don't do stuff unless the script tells them to. Nothing really flows naturally, organically. And not using John Williams' score because it would make the series "too cinematic" is just the shit icing on a shitty cake that has some really fucking delicious bits.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  5. #565

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    The Boys rated as one of the best comic series of all time on several lists is trash source material?

  6. #566

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    Honestly, i didn't think it was too bad. Certainly full of plotholes but the actors were mostly good and the end was satisfying.
    I don't know what people want more of their space fantasy.
    Coherent writing start to finish for a TV Series? This is not about Star Wars, it's about how most TV shows nowadays just seem written by different people with different ideas without a clear direction towards the actual scope of the thing. And see the vid above about how KK micromanaging Kenobi drove McGregor up a wall in frustration (and with good reason).
    It's all about the ratings these days, which leads more often than not to one of two terrible decisions:

    - The show is cancelled before it fully had develop "the lore" (to put it that way) and the real story could take off
    This seems to happen mostly to the normal/low budget shows

    - Showrunners (and writers) are changed more than once
    This seems to happen to big budget shows (or IPs, see ST Picard), as simply cancelling them would signal "we are terrible at this" - nothing management is typically very good at.

  7. #567
    Alistair's Avatar
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    The Boys is what people think is great TV these days?

    Meh, pass.


  8. #568
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked
    If you compare Kenobi with The Boys - since they've been running in parallel - there's absolutely a huge difference in the quality of writing and overall quality and not in the favour of Kenobi - and bear in mind the source material for The Boys is absolutely horrible.

    The last episode had some good bits but the series overall made me incredibly jaded going into it. I feel episode 5 was better if only for the flashback fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Why was the last episode trash? Because it puts characters into situations where they act unreasonable for their character development. Why didn't Kenobi kill Vader? It's just dumb, he was down, exposed, clearly Anakin was dead. Ah, because there was cut material that had Qui Gon tell Obi Wan there is still good in him - this may have changed the perception. As it is, it's horrible. Reva just spares Luke because the script makes her go from unhinged evil person cutting off people's hands to "ah she's actually good" without any good reason. She survived the Jedi Temple youngling purge to go on and be raised by the Sith and still she maintained a moral compass? Really? I can't tell in the show why that would be a thing except for the script needing her to be like that.

    Also, the biggest gripe I have with the series - dude, in episode IV Leia states in the message to Kenobi that she asks him for help because Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars with her father. She doesn't know she's adopted. She doesn't have the memory of running around being kidnapped with Kenobi rescuing her when she was 10 yo. It's just bad writing top to bottom.

    Characters don't develop unless the script needs them to suddenly find their strenght or something. They don't do stuff unless the script tells them to. Nothing really flows naturally, organically. And not using John Williams' score because it would make the series "too cinematic" is just the shit icing on a shitty cake that has some really fucking delicious bits.
    it's fucking wizards in space, i have no idea what you're expecting. why didn't X do Y? because the original movies have set the canon. if this new series had changed that, you'd all be wanking over how awful that is. it's not some high arte, it's fucking lightsabers and explosions and force magic lmao.

  9. #569
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    Ep. 6 good, for sure highlight on the season. But overall, the season was quite disappointing.
    Just had expected more, considering the cast.

    Will there be more Kenobi?
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked
    If you compare Kenobi with The Boys - since they've been running in parallel - there's absolutely a huge difference in the quality of writing and overall quality and not in the favour of Kenobi - and bear in mind the source material for The Boys is absolutely horrible.

    The last episode had some good bits but the series overall made me incredibly jaded going into it. I feel episode 5 was better if only for the flashback fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Why was the last episode trash? Because it puts characters into situations where they act unreasonable for their character development. Why didn't Kenobi kill Vader? It's just dumb, he was down, exposed, clearly Anakin was dead. Ah, because there was cut material that had Qui Gon tell Obi Wan there is still good in him - this may have changed the perception. As it is, it's horrible. Reva just spares Luke because the script makes her go from unhinged evil person cutting off people's hands to "ah she's actually good" without any good reason. She survived the Jedi Temple youngling purge to go on and be raised by the Sith and still she maintained a moral compass? Really? I can't tell in the show why that would be a thing except for the script needing her to be like that.

    Also, the biggest gripe I have with the series - dude, in episode IV Leia states in the message to Kenobi that she asks him for help because Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars with her father. She doesn't know she's adopted. She doesn't have the memory of running around being kidnapped with Kenobi rescuing her when she was 10 yo. It's just bad writing top to bottom.

    Characters don't develop unless the script needs them to suddenly find their strenght or something. They don't do stuff unless the script tells them to. Nothing really flows naturally, organically. And not using John Williams' score because it would make the series "too cinematic" is just the shit icing on a shitty cake that has some really fucking delicious bits.
    it's fucking wizards in space, i have no idea what you're expecting. why didn't X do Y? because the original movies have set the canon. if this new series had changed that, you'd all be wanking over how awful that is. it's not some high arte, it's fucking lightsabers and explosions and force magic lmao.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to teds again.


  11. #571
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    It shouldn't be realistic, however it should be internally consistent as a fictional setting.

    What are essentially new shows utilising a setting to inherit viewers from previous franchise entries should respect the source materials. They don't have pander to it, strike the same tone, be aimed at the same audience or even be the same style but they cannot renege, ret-con or make irrelevant that which which is already published.

    Not just for the fans' or even audiences' sake but for the new show too, you would be better off with the creative freedom of a new IP than simply attempting to carry on with incompatible content in an old fiction.

    Obviously though if retarded studios pay billions for nostalgia and people's reaction is to watch it and then it doesn't matter if they enjoy it or not, only that they consumed it.
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  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmoore View Post
    The Boys rated as one of the best comic series of all time on several lists is trash source material?
    Have you actually read the comics or are you just stating this as per other people's preferences?

    I read them and there's not nearly as much character development as there is in the series and there's a lot of shit in there put just for the shock value. Depends on what you appreciate but The Boys comics are imo pretty trash. If you want to see where I'm coming from I think that Maus is basically one of the best comic books ever made (as an example).
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    it's fucking wizards in space, i have no idea what you're expecting. why didn't X do Y? because the original movies have set the canon. if this new series had changed that, you'd all be wanking over how awful that is. it's not some high arte, it's fucking lightsabers and explosions and force magic lmao.
    Bear with me please. The OG trilogy is indeed a rehash of a lot of tropes but at the same time it does the tropes right. There is character progression and evolution, it's Luke's coming of age story and Han's redemption story and Leia's growth. The prequel trilogy tells a story that is similar and does so well as well, despite the shitty dialogue and ocassional terrible characters.

    Then episode VII just went full nostalgia trip, VIII "subverted" expectations and IX put the final nail in the coffin of the entire franchise.

    Take The Mandalorian which tells another story full of tropes and does so well - and it was rightfully appreciated. The fact that Kenobi is "more lasers and space wizards" doesn't change it has bad writing and is overall a bit insulting to the original material.



    Let's look at Terminator and Terminator 2. Robots hunting humans, pew pew, amirite? Yet, Terminator 2 is better than the original and has an ending that is outright emotional even for people who dislike killer robot movies.

    I feel that people outright dismiss entire franchises that "were always shit" so now they're still shit. Not really, mate. There's a clear degradation of the writing, trying to pass on an agenda and other crap that makes these movies and series age terribly. I showed episode IV to somebody who never saw Star Wars (yes there are some people like that still around) and they were charmed (they saw episode 8 in theatres and were unimpressed).

    It's how the story is told, even if the material is lasers and lightsabers and space wizards.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  14. #574
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Ep. 6 good, for sure highlight on the season. But overall, the season was quite disappointing.
    Just had expected more, considering the cast.

    Will there be more Kenobi?
    Can you think of a show other than Venture Brothers where the second season was better than the first?
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  15. #575
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked
    If you compare Kenobi with The Boys - since they've been running in parallel - there's absolutely a huge difference in the quality of writing and overall quality and not in the favour of Kenobi - and bear in mind the source material for The Boys is absolutely horrible.

    The last episode had some good bits but the series overall made me incredibly jaded going into it. I feel episode 5 was better if only for the flashback fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Why was the last episode trash? Because it puts characters into situations where they act unreasonable for their character development. Why didn't Kenobi kill Vader? It's just dumb, he was down, exposed, clearly Anakin was dead. Ah, because there was cut material that had Qui Gon tell Obi Wan there is still good in him - this may have changed the perception. As it is, it's horrible. Reva just spares Luke because the script makes her go from unhinged evil person cutting off people's hands to "ah she's actually good" without any good reason. She survived the Jedi Temple youngling purge to go on and be raised by the Sith and still she maintained a moral compass? Really? I can't tell in the show why that would be a thing except for the script needing her to be like that.

    Also, the biggest gripe I have with the series - dude, in episode IV Leia states in the message to Kenobi that she asks him for help because Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars with her father. She doesn't know she's adopted. She doesn't have the memory of running around being kidnapped with Kenobi rescuing her when she was 10 yo. It's just bad writing top to bottom.

    Characters don't develop unless the script needs them to suddenly find their strenght or something. They don't do stuff unless the script tells them to. Nothing really flows naturally, organically. And not using John Williams' score because it would make the series "too cinematic" is just the shit icing on a shitty cake that has some really fucking delicious bits.
    fuck you are an utter nonce

  16. #576
    DerWish's Avatar
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    Kenobi was utter shit.
    Putting aside the lore fuckups, the bad full script programmed droid like acting, the incoherent space magic... Vader's powers are always on cooldown when it matters. Putting aside that in SW only Que Gon can die when stabbed with a lightsaber into the stomach. The blatant ripoff of Fallen Order. The low quality CGI.

    I could have lived with all these... but the utter stupid uncharacteristic decisions made me declare the series waste of time.

    Things you do not do as a GM if you are telling a story in SW.
    No Tie fighters used anywhere. None on the Star Destroyer or the Inquisitor fortress. Epic fails like only using the thermal detonator for suicide bombing. The Benny Hill like chase scene in the first episode was already a red flag: prepare for the worst.

    You don't want to compare it to The Boys? Ok, compare it with the Mandalorian!

  17. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Ep. 6 good, for sure highlight on the season. But overall, the season was quite disappointing.
    Just had expected more, considering the cast.

    Will there be more Kenobi?
    Can you think of a show other than Venture Brothers where the second season was better than the first?
    Movie sequels are almost always worse, but so many tv shows where the following seasons are better.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  18. #578
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    grown men crying over space wizards, but will watch no matter how shit it gets lol

  19. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked
    If you compare Kenobi with The Boys - since they've been running in parallel - there's absolutely a huge difference in the quality of writing and overall quality and not in the favour of Kenobi - and bear in mind the source material for The Boys is absolutely horrible.

    The last episode had some good bits but the series overall made me incredibly jaded going into it. I feel episode 5 was better if only for the flashback fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Why was the last episode trash? Because it puts characters into situations where they act unreasonable for their character development. Why didn't Kenobi kill Vader? It's just dumb, he was down, exposed, clearly Anakin was dead. Ah, because there was cut material that had Qui Gon tell Obi Wan there is still good in him - this may have changed the perception. As it is, it's horrible. Reva just spares Luke because the script makes her go from unhinged evil person cutting off people's hands to "ah she's actually good" without any good reason. She survived the Jedi Temple youngling purge to go on and be raised by the Sith and still she maintained a moral compass? Really? I can't tell in the show why that would be a thing except for the script needing her to be like that.

    Also, the biggest gripe I have with the series - dude, in episode IV Leia states in the message to Kenobi that she asks him for help because Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars with her father. She doesn't know she's adopted. She doesn't have the memory of running around being kidnapped with Kenobi rescuing her when she was 10 yo. It's just bad writing top to bottom.

    Characters don't develop unless the script needs them to suddenly find their strenght or something. They don't do stuff unless the script tells them to. Nothing really flows naturally, organically. And not using John Williams' score because it would make the series "too cinematic" is just the shit icing on a shitty cake that has some really fucking delicious bits.
    fuck you are an utter nonce
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  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    if you thought the last episode was 'trash' you need your head checked
    If you compare Kenobi with The Boys - since they've been running in parallel - there's absolutely a huge difference in the quality of writing and overall quality and not in the favour of Kenobi - and bear in mind the source material for The Boys is absolutely horrible.

    The last episode had some good bits but the series overall made me incredibly jaded going into it. I feel episode 5 was better if only for the flashback fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Why was the last episode trash? Because it puts characters into situations where they act unreasonable for their character development. Why didn't Kenobi kill Vader? It's just dumb, he was down, exposed, clearly Anakin was dead. Ah, because there was cut material that had Qui Gon tell Obi Wan there is still good in him - this may have changed the perception. As it is, it's horrible. Reva just spares Luke because the script makes her go from unhinged evil person cutting off people's hands to "ah she's actually good" without any good reason. She survived the Jedi Temple youngling purge to go on and be raised by the Sith and still she maintained a moral compass? Really? I can't tell in the show why that would be a thing except for the script needing her to be like that.

    Also, the biggest gripe I have with the series - dude, in episode IV Leia states in the message to Kenobi that she asks him for help because Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars with her father. She doesn't know she's adopted. She doesn't have the memory of running around being kidnapped with Kenobi rescuing her when she was 10 yo. It's just bad writing top to bottom.

    Characters don't develop unless the script needs them to suddenly find their strenght or something. They don't do stuff unless the script tells them to. Nothing really flows naturally, organically. And not using John Williams' score because it would make the series "too cinematic" is just the shit icing on a shitty cake that has some really fucking delicious bits.
    fuck you are an utter nonce
    love you too, teds
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

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