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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #11561
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Don't blame the '90s for "no child left behind", that was Bush2 idiocy.

    Edit: your characterization is off, it was the policy that tied funding to standardized test results, forcing schools to teach to the tests.
    Last edited by Dorvil Barranis; August 11 2020 at 07:56:49 AM.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  2. #11562
    Timaios's Avatar
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    From a Nordic perspective the fact that the parents have enough money to donate to the school that it would make a meaningful impact (instead of just being able to fund a school trip or two) speaks volumes. The school districts must be really segregated and the citizens must have immense amounts of disposable income.

    And the funds should not be allocated evenly but districts with difficulties (e.g. more pupils in special ed, or greater number of pupils who don't have English as their first language) should receive additional funds. That's how it's done in many Nordic countries to good success?

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  3. #11563
    Keckers's Avatar
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    The only freedom worth having is the freedom to keep the poor badly educated so you can steal their tips when they work for your restaurant chain.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  4. #11564

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    Judging by the US education system the poor are defined by "anyone not having enough money to bribe their children into ivy league" as the bar for decent-ish education.

  5. #11565
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Judging by the US education system the poor are defined by "anyone not having enough money to bribe their children into ivy league" as the bar for decent-ish education.
    I mean, it's really only the top 3 or 4 schools, tbh. All those other ones are just as crap, but have marketing budgets, unlike European unis who no one at all takes seriously.
    meh

  6. #11566
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Judging by the US education system the poor are defined by "anyone not having enough money to bribe their children into ivy league" as the bar for decent-ish education.
    I mean, it's really only the top 3 or 4 schools, tbh. All those other ones are just as crap, but have marketing budgets, unlike European unis who no one at all takes seriously.

  7. #11567
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Judging by the US education system the poor are defined by "anyone not having enough money to bribe their children into ivy league" as the bar for decent-ish education.
    I mean, it's really only the top 3 or 4 schools, tbh. All those other ones are just as crap, but have marketing budgets, unlike European unis who no one at all takes seriously.
    I mean, the UK left, remember...

    meh

  8. #11568
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Judging by the US education system the poor are defined by "anyone not having enough money to bribe their children into ivy league" as the bar for decent-ish education.
    I mean, it's really only the top 3 or 4 schools, tbh. All those other ones are just as crap, but have marketing budgets, unlike European unis who no one at all takes seriously.

  9. #11569
    Keckers's Avatar
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    International students is a weird metric to judge the quality of a university on. It is usually just a measure of which countries require universities to make up budget shortfalls by importing students paying top dollar.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  10. #11570

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    International students is a weird metric to judge the quality of a university on. It is usually just a measure of which countries require universities to make up budget shortfalls by importing students paying top dollar.
    International students is a viable metric to count how many individuals are wealthy enough to buy themselves a pathway to citizenship (at least in the US) via international studies.

  11. #11571
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Judging by the US education system the poor are defined by "anyone not having enough money to bribe their children into ivy league" as the bar for decent-ish education.
    I mean, it's really only the top 3 or 4 schools, tbh. All those other ones are just as crap, but have marketing budgets, unlike European unis who no one at all takes seriously.
    I mean, the UK left, remember...

    Germany offers free education for its students and is a world leader in virtually everything except the industry of stealing user data.

    Germany has 380 universities to the USA's 5300 and somehow manages to have apx 1/4th the number of international students.

    The top universities are literally irrelevant. It's the other ones, the ones that educate the majority of the students and produce educated citizens that actually fucking matter.

    It's really fucking dumb and the height of Amerocentrism to suggest that the USA has a good university system when literally only the "top ivy league schools" are worth a damn.

    real edit: read the post again and no one was saying that
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; August 11 2020 at 03:04:00 PM.

  12. #11572
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    where international students go has more to do with language than the quality of the university.

  13. #11573
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=depili;1906871][QUOTE=Alistair;1906852][QUOTE=evil edna;1906840]
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I don't know any other country where it is up to the teachers to use their own money to get classroom supplies for their students...
    Thats more due to ignorance than the US being exceptional. We have to do that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    where international students go has more to do with language than the quality of the university.
    That's why people go to German unis, because German is such a well known language? Color me surprised.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  14. #11574
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I suppose it was never funded particularly well in the first place
    By "never funded particularly well" I presume you meant to say "the U.S. spends more per student than any other country"?

    Easy mistake to make, I understand.
    Clearly in a way just as shit as you do with health
    Perhaps then the criticism should be we administer/distribute education and heath poorly.

    We fund those things just fine.
    when the funding of individual districts is tied to that district's tax base, such that rich neighborhoods get rich schools and poor neighborhoods get poor schools, then the total amount of money spent averaged between the two being relatively high doesn't mean that schools are "well funded" in this country, it means that they're preferentially funded according to wealth distribution and, functionally as a result, race. in this case i think it's more accurate to say that education is not well funded, because it exacerbates and perpetuates class division, than to point to the massive pile of money being spent in total and say "look at all the money we're spending, isn't that great?"

    so yes, "well funded" should mean equal access and attainment regardless of individual economic circumstance.
    No, "funding" shouldn't mean "methodology of distribution", it means funding. How much funds was provided for/spent on X.

    The fact that the funding was not spread equally or equitably as you or I see it does not mean the funding was insufficient. It means the distribution of the funding was inequitable or insufficient.

    That is why we have a Wealth Disparity/Gap issue, not a Wealth Issue, in the U.S. We have plenty of wealth, it is simply not distributed equally. We have plenty of education funding, similarly, it is not distributed equally.

    Of course, this is exactly the kind of "make up definitions to suit my politics" that has most of you believing property damage isn't violence. Because we have redefined violence to suit your particular political biases.

    Words that offend, definitely violence. Burning down someones store with them in it for your cause de jour, not violence. :2020stuff:


  15. #11575
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    the idea we fund education and the healthcare of citizens just fine being a sane one in your head is just a sign how disconnected you are at times.
    Another perfect example of redefining things.

    We fund those things more than any other country, the FUNDING IS FUCKING FINE. Shit, it's more than fine, it's fucking over the top excessive.

    The way those funds are spent is what is wrong.

    Fuck sake. Forget it.


  16. #11576

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    the idea we fund education and the healthcare of citizens just fine being a sane one in your head is just a sign how disconnected you are at times.
    Another perfect example of redefining things.

    We fund those things more than any other country, the FUNDING IS FUCKING FINE. Shit, it's more than fine, it's fucking over the top excessive.

    The way those funds are spent is what is wrong.

    Fuck sake. Forget it.
    I don't know about that. I keep hearing about how other nations are underfunding NATO; seems to counter your argument pretty strongly.

    Also, and more seriously, property damage isn't violence. Property isn't a person. There can be valid tactical/strategic reasons to destroy property, and such destruction can and often does impact the population as a whole, but calling property damage violence is an affront to anyone that has ever been subject to real violence. (If you want to jump down this rabbit hole, by all means feel welcome, but you should start by being prepared to defend an escalation of real actual violence in response to 'property damage' that consists of applying paint to a surface.)

  17. #11577
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Joe Appleby;1906924][QUOTE=depili;1906871][QUOTE=Alistair;1906852]
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I don't know any other country where it is up to the teachers to use their own money to get classroom supplies for their students...
    Thats more due to ignorance than the US being exceptional. We have to do that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    where international students go has more to do with language than the quality of the university.
    That's why people go to German unis, because German is such a well known language? Color me surprised.

    Tapapapatalk
    that's why 3 of the top 5 are english speaking and germany is number 8 despite all it's quality you dipshit. (and i do think german uni's are higher quality, i have family in germany and from conversations with them I would prefer to have grown up with the german system)

  18. #11578
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Being educated in england has a cache in asia that germany just doesnt

  19. #11579
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    the idea we fund education and the healthcare of citizens just fine being a sane one in your head is just a sign how disconnected you are at times.
    Another perfect example of redefining things.

    We fund those things more than any other country, the FUNDING IS FUCKING FINE. Shit, it's more than fine, it's fucking over the top excessive.

    The way those funds are spent is what is wrong.

    Fuck sake. Forget it.
    I don't know about that. I keep hearing about how other nations are underfunding NATO; seems to counter your argument pretty strongly.

    Also, and more seriously, property damage isn't violence. Property isn't a person. There can be valid tactical/strategic reasons to destroy property, and such destruction can and often does impact the population as a whole, but calling property damage violence is an affront to anyone that has ever been subject to real violence. (If you want to jump down this rabbit hole, by all means feel welcome, but you should start by being prepared to defend an escalation of real actual violence in response to 'property damage' that consists of applying paint to a surface.)
    If someone tries firebombing my house or business if I am in it they are getting shot. That's not internet tough guy bullshit, they are trying to fucking kill me by destroying my property. Doubly so in America where no social safety net means losing your place of work or residence is pretty much a death sentence.

  20. #11580
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    the idea we fund education and the healthcare of citizens just fine being a sane one in your head is just a sign how disconnected you are at times.
    Another perfect example of redefining things.

    We fund those things more than any other country, the FUNDING IS FUCKING FINE. Shit, it's more than fine, it's fucking over the top excessive.

    The way those funds are spent is what is wrong.

    Fuck sake. Forget it.
    I don't know about that. I keep hearing about how other nations are underfunding NATO; seems to counter your argument pretty strongly.

    Also, and more seriously, property damage isn't violence. Property isn't a person. There can be valid tactical/strategic reasons to destroy property, and such destruction can and often does impact the population as a whole, but calling property damage violence is an affront to anyone that has ever been subject to real violence. (If you want to jump down this rabbit hole, by all means feel welcome, but you should start by being prepared to defend an escalation of real actual violence in response to 'property damage' that consists of applying paint to a surface.)
    Define 'real' violence...

    Offensive words are now considered 'violence'. If you burned down my home or business I'd consider that far more violent than a 'micro aggression' or using a racial slur against me.


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