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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #6001
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    No offence Joe but are you saying USA wasn't implicated in most southern and central murican shenangians for the last century?
    No, I'm saying they were far less successful than they would have wanted to be.

    For the US, I can only think of two successful covert operations that mostly worked out how the CIA wanted it: Iran and Chile. Iran didn't last and Chile was apparently something stumbled into.

    I mean if the CIA had been competent, Allende would have never been elected. They poured some seven million dollars into the election campaign of Allende's in 1970.

    What is interesting is that CIA reports and historians don't agree whether the CIA actively supported the coup or was just complicit by keeping close ties with the Chilean military. There's even a recording between Reagan and Kissinger with Kissinger complaining about the US not getting any recognition for toppling a Communist government in Chile and Reagan going that this wasn't the US job.
    In 1970 during Allende's election campaign the US did actively seek military personnel to topple the Chilean government as well as run a massive smear campaign against Allende (the aforementioned seven million were for that campaign). This the US does acknowledge.

    The truth is probably somewhere in between. Some CIA people while keeping close ties to the Chilean military probably thought to support the coup in order to make up for their failure in 1970. They did so with no support at first. As soon as the coup gained traction and was not very likely to fail, the US jumped on it. Because not doing so would have been massively stupid.

      Spoiler:

    Oh and the CIA told the West German intelligence service a few days before the coup. They didn't inform the West German government but a mole informed the East German Stasi, which in turn tried to warn Allende. The message didn't arrive in time but eventually they extracted a bunch of persecuted left politicians.


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  2. #6002
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Joe is so autistic that he narrowly defines successful CIA coups on some German teachers grade of "Did we accomplish all our objectives today?"

    I'd say that removing a leader who wanted nationalization/land reform/relations with USSR is a pretty successful covert operation, but I guess since it didn't spawn the requisite Mugabe-length dicatorship it cannot be quantified as "successful"
    Last edited by mewninn; November 11 2019 at 11:50:07 PM.

  3. #6003
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Joe is so autistic that he narrowly defines successful CIA coups on some German teachers grade of "Did we accomplish all our objectives today?"

    I'd say that removing a leader who wanted nationalization/land reform/relations with USSR is a pretty successful covert operation, but I guess since it didn't spawn the requisite Mugabe-length dicatorship it cannot be quantified as "successful"
    Well what are the CIA's criteria for success?


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  4. #6004
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Joe is so autistic that he narrowly defines successful CIA coups on some German teachers grade of "Did we accomplish all our objectives today?"

    I'd say that removing a leader who wanted nationalization/land reform/relations with USSR is a pretty successful covert operation, but I guess since it didn't spawn the requisite Mugabe-length dicatorship it cannot be quantified as "successful"
    Well what are the CIA's criteria for success?
    How many people actually blame Mossad.
    meh

  5. #6005
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Joe is so autistic that he narrowly defines successful CIA coups on some German teachers grade of "Did we accomplish all our objectives today?"

    I'd say that removing a leader who wanted nationalization/land reform/relations with USSR is a pretty successful covert operation, but I guess since it didn't spawn the requisite Mugabe-length dicatorship it cannot be quantified as "successful"
    Well what are the CIA's criteria for success?
    pre-Pink Tide Latin America

    A whole constellation of right-wing governments that were friendly to capital, hostile to indigenous populations, and hostile to the "shirtless".

  6. #6006
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    maybe they should put some fucking shirts on then and get back to work, those bananas wont grow themselves, vamos campesinos!

  7. #6007
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Congrats CIA for taking over Bolivia just as they started considering nationalising their lithium mines.

    That's very legal and cool.


    I'm sure amending the constitution to extend your rule and engaging in election fraud did not factor into the protests in any way.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  8. #6008
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    maybe they should put some fucking shirts on then and get back to work, those bananas wont grow themselves, vamos campesinos!
    meh

  9. #6009
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Classic Smedley Butler scenes.


  10. #6010
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Joe is so autistic that he narrowly defines successful CIA coups on some German teachers grade of "Did we accomplish all our objectives today?"

    I'd say that removing a leader who wanted nationalization/land reform/relations with USSR is a pretty successful covert operation, but I guess since it didn't spawn the requisite Mugabe-length dicatorship it cannot be quantified as "successful"
    Well what are the CIA's criteria for success?
    "Have we laid the foundation for capitalist exploitation of their natural resources?"
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  11. #6011
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Joe is so autistic that he narrowly defines successful CIA coups on some German teachers grade of "Did we accomplish all our objectives today?"

    I'd say that removing a leader who wanted nationalization/land reform/relations with USSR is a pretty successful covert operation, but I guess since it didn't spawn the requisite Mugabe-length dicatorship it cannot be quantified as "successful"
    You fucking Muppet. Chile was most likely the US jumping on something that would have been a success without them.

    And I suggest you read Weiner's history of the CIA to find out how absolutely useless the CIA was at every other coup they tried during the Cold War.

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  12. #6012

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    The book Legacy of Ashes; The history of CIA has pretty good overview of the Great Successes of CIA

  13. #6013
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    The book Legacy of Ashes; The history of CIA has pretty good overview of the Great Successes of CIA
    Indeed. I read that and the Mitrokhin archives on the KGB back to back.

    That's where the similarities came to light.

    About the CIA and Chile:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070612...ile/index.html

    The CIA's own admission of not being responsible for the coup against Allende. As I wrote earlier, there are historians who dispute that version of events and claim the CIA was directly involved. But the truth is somewhere in between.

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  14. #6014
    Keckers's Avatar
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    The CIA isn't the only weapon of American imperialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #6015
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The CIA isn't the only weapon of American imperialism.
    I'm hearing ukraine dumps over 20% of it's budget into paying off debts to IMF.

  16. #6016
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The CIA isn't the only weapon of American imperialism.
    I'm hearing ukraine dumps over 20% of it's budget into paying off debts to IMF.
    That tribute should be going to Moscow!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  17. #6017
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The CIA isn't the only weapon of American imperialism.
    I'm hearing ukraine dumps over 20% of it's budget into paying off debts to IMF.
    That tribute should be going to Moscow!
    pretty sure more of the wealth would trickle down that way.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  18. #6018
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The CIA isn't the only weapon of American imperialism.
    I'm hearing ukraine dumps over 20% of it's budget into paying off debts to IMF.
    That tribute should be going to Moscow!
    pretty sure more of the wealth would trickle down that way.
    Lol, visit Poland and Ukraine and compare. Ukraine had higher GDP after dissolution, look where both are now. Wanna guess where one sent their tribute and where did the other?

  19. #6019
    Liare's Avatar
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    the coup is like totally not a case of foreign intervention behind the scenes, nope!

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The CIA isn't the only weapon of American imperialism.
    I'm hearing ukraine dumps over 20% of it's budget into paying off debts to IMF.
    That tribute should be going to Moscow!
    pretty sure more of the wealth would trickle down that way.
    Lol, visit Poland and Ukraine and compare. Ukraine had higher GDP after dissolution, look where both are now. Wanna guess where one sent their tribute and where did the other?
    what is "Russian and Ukranian history 1989-2001" Alex ?
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  20. #6020

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    That's actually... kind of a big deal. Political advertising dollars are fucking huge, and the arms race to provide hyper-targeted political advertising based on protected characteristics is one of the reasons silicon valley should just be allowed to burn to the ground when the forest fires reach it.
    Because Cambridge Analytica was a SV company.
    In every way except location and scale.

    You know, or should know, as well as I do that the shenanigans the social networks themselves get up to make CA look like some lawn signs.
    Well, not in terms of impact or intent. I mean, ultimately, it's really just about advertising dollars, whereas CA were most definitely not.

    It's basically just facebook now, with this.
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...th-information

    hurf blurf Silicon Valley does nothing wrong

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