hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 2 of 184 FirstFirst 123451252102 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 3663

Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #21
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    4,288
    Yes, amending the constitution is very easy.

    Almost as easy as getting the top post on Page 2.

  2. #22

    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    367
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Yes, amending the constitution is very easy.

    Almost as easy as getting the top post on Page 2.
    The interstate voting compact achieves a popular vote without changing the constitution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

    Basically, since states can make agreements with one another outside of the federal government, and since states determine how their electoral votes are allocated, you can have an agreement with other states to allocate your electoral votes to whoever wins the popular vote. The agreement becomes active once enough electoral votes to determine the president are bound by it. Theoretically.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    March 10, 2019
    Posts
    94
    As long as the constitution's formulation of the roles of the federal govt and states stays in place, the electoral college should not be removed. If the constitution is dramatically rewritten in a way that makes states basically nothing more than administrative provinces then it makes sense but until then removing the electoral college is ludicrous.

  4. #24
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    The electoral college could easily be dispatched and should be but keep that noise down. More states have signed on to the popular vote compact. I hope they intensify efforts soon. Also if we had Merrick Garland gerrymandered states might of been fixed but now it could take decades to get the SC in a position to do so. We are so fucked for the little remaining future we have without climate change effects.
    So far only in Blue or Purple states, so if only states like that sign on to the popular vote compact, it does nothing to limit the power of rural red states, which are not going to sign on.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  5. #25

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    1,392
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    The electoral college could easily be dispatched and should be but keep that noise down. More states have signed on to the popular vote compact. I hope they intensify efforts soon. Also if we had Merrick Garland gerrymandered states might of been fixed but now it could take decades to get the SC in a position to do so. We are so fucked for the little remaining future we have without climate change effects.
    So far only in Blue or Purple states, so if only states like that sign on to the popular vote compact, it does nothing to limit the power of rural red states, which are not going to sign on.
    Given that Republicans currently control ~61% of State legislatures to the Democrats 37% I am pretty sure that the popular vote compact would only work to the benefit of Republicans. If a Republican wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college then a bunch of Red States will join the compact and force the blue states to give their votes to the Republican, if a Democrat wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college then the Red states will not join the compact, or withdraw from it, ensuring they can vote for the Republican.

    The Democrats need to get their shit together and figure out a way to compete and win in the rural states. They need to rebuild and fund the state parties that they deliberately abandoned under Tim Caine/Obama. They need to run candidates for every elected office from dog catcher up to generate an experienced bench for future advancement. They need to develop policies that visibly and practically help the citizens and fucking implement them when they have the power to do so.

    Or they can whine about Russia some more and give more hundreds of millions to consultants and then bitch and moan about how the mean old Republicans aren't helping them even when they've spent years, nay decades, enabling those very same Republican's policies.

  6. #26
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    10,354
    "Maybe, instead of demonizing and alienating an entire swath of America, we could grow some balls and change the party's message to resonate more with the electorate, especially with disaffected white Christians. That way, people will be less inclined to support fringe candidates like Trump, and the Republican party won't be able to keep taking over the judicial branch."

    "ARE YOU CRAZY!? We obviously have to change the US Constitution in order to make a minuscule difference in the end result, which will trigger a legal battle that will take years to wind its way through the system and eventually reach the Supreme Court. Our moral high ground is CLEARLY superior, and there's no way we can lose!"

    "You want to change the Constitution, even though you still can't ratify the ERA after a century. You want to engage in a years-long battle in a venue that has been stacked against you by your opponents. And you still haven't figured out why you lost in 2000, 2004 and 2016."

    "Yes!"

    "And you still want to party to be run by condescending personalities from coastal states."

    "Absolutely!"

    "I'll pass."
    Last edited by Nordstern; March 27 2019 at 04:22:01 AM.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  7. #27
    Wallymarts's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 10, 2011
    Posts
    75
    YOU UNVACCINATED FUCKING RETARDS
    Everyone has a plan, till they get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

  8. #28
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 15, 2011
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    6,734
    just checked the last us thread and i seriously think some of y'all a) still have no idea what a real nazi is and b) have probably never had real interactions with human beings and c) are fucking autistic or something
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  9. #29
    Duckslayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 23, 2017
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    just checked the last us thread and i seriously think some of y'all a) still have no idea what a real nazi is and b) have probably never had real interactions with human beings and c) are fucking autistic or something
    enjoy your new ban you monster

  10. #30
    walrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Fancomicidolkostümier- ungsspielgruppenzusammenkunft
    Posts
    6,423
      Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    But islamism IS a product of class warfare. Rich white countries come into developing brown dictatorships, wreck the leadership, infrastructure and economy and then act all surprised that religious fanaticism is on the rise.
    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    walrus isnt a bad poster.
    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    also i like walrus.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmaNutin View Post
    Yer a hoot

  11. #31

    Join Date
    November 5, 2011
    Posts
    12,605
    For the most part nobody here seriously calls anyone a Nazi though at most it's either somewhat ironic and purposefully exaggerated or to show where their thought processes ultimately end up bringing you. Lots of whinging about being called as such with not much of it actually going on. It makes it really easy to completely derail discussions though every time to deflect from one's shittiness, just use the victim card.

    No, Trump and his lot are not *literally nazis* and neither are a lot of people supporting them, but they sure as hell exhibit a shitton of traits of extreme nationalism, racial hatred, terrible economic decisions and consolidation of power that fascists are always fond of. So surely we don't have to play their game and keep discussing goddamn semantics every single time thus dilluting the actual issues behind it?

    Because every time you start doing this you're literally helping these assholes get away with their shit while people lose track of it all in a sea of arguments about purity and semantics. So please don't.
    Last edited by Isyel; March 27 2019 at 11:06:52 AM.

  12. #32
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 15, 2011
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    6,734
    The ganging up on Alistair was real tho. Yes, he was a right leaning centrist but the level of hate he got here for just asking uncomfortable questions was over the top. And Isyel, I love you mate and thanks for all the Fallout 4 help, but your posting in said discussions was and 90% of the time is beyond the pale. I liked Alistair and found him a good proponent of conservative positions tbh. I might not have liked his standpoint but he had fair arguments and he knew how to express them to jab at our resident lefties.

    Anyway, I'm outta this thing, I got nothing to contribute to the US politics thread except saying may God have mercy on their souls cause I surely won't.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  13. #33
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    9,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    In actual news: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1R72Y9

    A burning question was whether Trump himself would agree to be interviewed. Despite the tentative date being set, Trump’s legal advisers were split. Attorney John Dowd, who at the time represented Trump personally in the inquiry, worried that an interview would be too risky.

    “We’re not going to go in there and make a mistake,” said Dowd, a pugnacious ex-Marine, recalling how he pushed back against Trump being interviewed even though the president had expressed willingness.

    Dowd said he talked to Mueller’s team “about what they had done to Flynn and Papadopoulos.” Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, and a former Trump campaign aide, George Papadopoulos, both ended up pleading guilty to lying to the FBI after submitting to special counsel interviews.

    “We weren’t going there,” Dowd said in an interview.

    Dowd said Mueller told him he wanted to discuss 16 areas in the interview, a scope viewed as too expansive. In agreeing to the tentative interview date, Trump’s lawyers had been seeking to draw out Mueller to find out what he already knew, Dowd said.

    “We wanted to know what was really on their mind. They played it close to the vest. Our purpose was: the more meetings we had, the more we learned. That was the purpose of keeping the talking going,” Dowd said, adding that he never intended to make Trump available for an interview.

    After the interview was canceled, it was apparent, according to Cobb, that the process would drag on.

    “Once there was a decision by the president’s lawyers in January 2018 not to proceed with an interview at that time - but to keep the possibility open - it was clear this would take some time,” Cobb said.

    The lawyers also faced the daily prospect of a subpoena from Mueller to force Trump to testify. If it came, their plan was to ask a judge to quash the subpoena, expecting the legal fight to reach the Supreme Court. It never came.

    “We were prepared from the outset in the event of a subpoena to challenge it,” Sekulow said. “We felt confident the law was clearly on our side.”

    Although not all experts agree, the legal team’s view was that a president cannot be compelled to testify unless the information could not be obtained from other sources and the circumstances were extraordinary.

    By the spring of 2018, it appeared Trump had two options: either sit for an interview or be subpoenaed.

    By that point, Trump’s team had been reshuffled. Dowd resigned in March. The Raskins and Giuliani came on board in April. Cobb was replaced in the White House by Emmet Flood in May. Sekulow was the only key member remaining throughout.

    The new legal team pressed Mueller to show them that the investigation had reached a stage that would justify sitting down with the president, a source familiar with the negotiations said.

    “Are you in a position where you have evidence of a crime?” the source said the team asked Mueller.
    Did they have any business asking this question?
    The team stuck to that position through the autumn of 2018 while negotiating the deal in which Trump would answer written questions only on a limited subject - potential collusion with Russia before the 2016 election - not open-ended queries that potentially could have spilled into his businesses, finances or other matters.

    CRITICAL MOMENT

    Mueller’s agreement to submit a list of questions was a critical moment. The special counsel never stopped asking for the interview, the source said, but when Mueller acquiesced to answers in writing, it was a game-changer.

    “It went from being constantly, ‘Are they going to decide to issue a subpoena?’ to, ‘We’re doing some written questions,’” the source said.

    Trump’s lawyers would not entertain questions on the issue of whether Trump had tried to obstruct justice when he fired former FBI director James Comey, then overseeing the Russia probe, and frequently assailed Attorney General Jeff Sessions publicly for not ending the inquiry.

    The legal team did not think a president could be found guilty of obstruction of justice for firing someone whom he had appointed in the first place to work for the administration.
    Well, that's not for them to decide, is it?

    The more I read this story, the more I think that Trump's legal team thinks they have authority over the President, which sets a disturbing precedent.
    To be fair: yes, I do think they have a business asking that question. They are/were Trump legal defence team after all. In fact, I would they are obliged to ask questions like. Trump in this sense is just like any other client: "So you want to interview my client? About what? Do you have any evidence that he did anything wrong?". It would have been a dereliction of duty to just hand over their client to the cops simply because they asked for it.

    Second, I read that, and I don't read that article, as Trump's defence team having authority over POTUS. That is, beyond the 'authority' any defence team has over any client in legal affairs.

    And I think they were generally right: Putting Trump in front of Mueller would have been a massive mistake. Trump lies practically every second word, and telling lies to the FBI is a serious offence, as some of his campaign workers know by now. And it is not like he defence team would have had any control over Trump once he's in the room. He's not the man to listen to (legal) advice once he's on the roll.

    I think the whole point was this. Trump defence team basically told Mueller: piss or get off the pot. I.e., subpoena Trump backed up with evidence of a crime, or go away. And remember, if you subpoena Trump, we'll take it to the courts.

    In the end Mueller didn't subpoena Trump, and posed written questions instead. Which is pretty weaksauce.

    The reason why he didn't go for a subpoena is what is interesting here. And I think you might be right previous, in saying Mueller did do it because he has a conservative legal posture, and didn't want to set precedent.

    But it could also mean that Mueller didn't feel like he had the evidence to back up a subpoena in a court of law. In which case he would run the risk of having an interview with Trump classified as a hunting expedition.

    In which case, in a strange way, I feel slightly comforted by this. As the system of law in the US still works, and no special prosecutor can just demand an interview with POTUS willynilly, just to bait POTUS into committing a crime.

    I do want Trump gone, but feel we should also consider what happens after he's gone. One can't have future POTUS interviewed willynilly either. They might be democrat you know ...

    Anyway, the public deserves to read the full report, and accompanying documents, precisely to know what went on with also this, and why decisions like this were taken. If they're not in Mueller's report, they should ask him to explain himself in front of congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  14. #34
    Duckslayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 23, 2017
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    The ganging up on Alistair was real tho. Yes, he was a right leaning centrist but the level of hate he got here for just asking uncomfortable questions was over the top. And Isyel, I love you mate and thanks for all the Fallout 4 help, but your posting in said discussions was and 90% of the time is beyond the pale. I liked Alistair and found him a good proponent of conservative positions tbh. I might not have liked his standpoint but he had fair arguments and he knew how to express them to jab at our resident lefties.

    Anyway, I'm outta this thing, I got nothing to contribute to the US politics thread except saying may God have mercy on their souls cause I surely won't.
    Well, the mods didnt step in to save alistair.

  15. #35
    rufuske's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    2,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    The ganging up on Alistair was real tho. Yes, he was a right leaning centrist but the level of hate he got here for just asking uncomfortable questions was over the top. And Isyel, I love you mate and thanks for all the Fallout 4 help, but your posting in said discussions was and 90% of the time is beyond the pale. I liked Alistair and found him a good proponent of conservative positions tbh. I might not have liked his standpoint but he had fair arguments and he knew how to express them to jab at our resident lefties.

    Anyway, I'm outta this thing, I got nothing to contribute to the US politics thread except saying may God have mercy on their souls cause I surely won't.
    Well, the mods didnt step in to save alistair.
    And banned wrong person.

  16. #36
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 9, 2011
    Posts
    8,716
    Repeatedly warned and handed out a few infractions actually.

  17. #37
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The tower of power, too sweet to be sour, ohhhh yeahh!
    Posts
    16,995
    BAN THEM BUT NOT TUEM COZ I AGREE WITH THEM BUT BEAN THE OUUDERS

    ISYEL IS A COOONT BAN I'M BAN ANY LOL I DO T AGREE HAHAHAHAHA

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    anything soviet is of evil

  18. #38
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The tower of power, too sweet to be sour, ohhhh yeahh!
    Posts
    16,995
    Pack of bells

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    anything soviet is of evil

  19. #39
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 24, 2011
    Location
    Putting owls in your Moss
    Posts
    9,424
    Ok. People want more consistent moderation. How about staying consistently on topic ITT? Don't derail it about talk of the moderation (there are other threads you can whinge about how bad we are). Infractions for derailing the thread or personal attacks will be generously handed out henceforth ITT. Don't shit it up

  20. #40
    mewninn's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    2,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    "Maybe, instead of demonizing and alienating an entire swath of America, we could grow some balls and change the party's message to resonate more with the electorate, especially with disaffected white Christians. That way, people will be less inclined to support fringe candidates like Trump, and the Republican party won't be able to keep taking over the judicial branch."

    "ARE YOU CRAZY!? We obviously have to change the US Constitution in order to make a minuscule difference in the end result, which will trigger a legal battle that will take years to wind its way through the system and eventually reach the Supreme Court. Our moral high ground is CLEARLY superior, and there's no way we can lose!"

    "You want to change the Constitution, even though you still can't ratify the ERA after a century. You want to engage in a years-long battle in a venue that has been stacked against you by your opponents. And you still haven't figured out why you lost in 2000, 2004 and 2016."

    "Yes!"

    "And you still want to party to be run by condescending personalities from coastal states."

    "Absolutely!"

    "I'll pass."
    Some pretty serious changes need to happen otherwise we're looking at ~70% of the population being told no by the ~30% who see nothing wrong with rising sea levels or selling your house to afford chemo

    And it's not even the electoral college, it's the courts who will be carrying out the will of that 30% well past their death.

    90 year old Gorsuch striking down another single-payer law is the real dystopian future

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •