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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #641
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Yeah, so?

    Republicans have been gotten the hypocrisy charge more times than anyone can count. Liberals should realize that nobody except them gives a shit
    And yet people still vote for them. Maybe we should start holding the people accountable.
    meh

  2. #642
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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  3. #643
    mewninn's Avatar
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    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...g-vote-1440843

    House Democrats this evening passed the session’s first legislation aimed at lowering drug prices, as the party looks to solidify its political advantage on a key issue for voters ahead ahead of 2020.

    The health care vote — the House’s second in two weeks — came over bitter protests from Republicans, who accused Democratic leaders of politicizing once-bipartisan drug price proposals by pairing them with polarizing measures to strengthen Obamacare. The bill is unlikely to survive the GOP-controlled Senate.
    Interesting DC thinking by the Dem leadership. Instead of maybe getting somewhere with these mild pricing laws, we'll just make it a certainty Republicans vote no so we can run ads against them...

    Also if the GOP voted "no" on drug pricing laws just by themselves, wouldn't that be better? Obamacare is polarizing and has mild popularity at best. It's hated by any middle class who work contracts or self-employed and had to eat premium hikes and worse plans

  4. #644
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Everyone is eating premium hikes and deductible hikes.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  5. #645
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    yea but remember employer insurance at least shields you from a part of the direct cost

    If you're just out on your own because you work contract or w/e, you eat all of it

  6. #646
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    yea but remember employer insurance at least shields you from a part of the direct cost

    If you're just out on your own because you work contract or w/e, you eat all of it
    Yes, but conversely, pre Obama care, if you had a preexisting condition, or even if you developed an expensive one, you were fucked fucked fucked on your own.
    meh

  7. #647
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    Yea but consider what that means. They did the bare minimum to bandaid a terrible system but nothing was done to address the ridiculous cost or the Kafkaesque insurance process

    I'd like to imagine there's a system where we didn't have to choose between preex. conditions and the sky high premiums...hmmm wonder what that could be

  8. #648
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Yea but consider what that means. They did the bare minimum to bandaid a terrible system but nothing was done to address the ridiculous cost or the Kafkaesque insurance process

    I'd like to imagine there's a system where we didn't have to choose between preex. conditions and the sky high premiums...hmmm wonder what that could be
    No, profit motive on healthcare means the cost never comes down. It's really quite simple.
    meh

  9. #649
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    There is evidence to suggest prices could of been much worse by now if Obama care wasn't implemented, and evidence to suggest otherwise. I really think in the end I believe it'd be much worse since drug prices are a free for all right now so why the fuck wouldn't they of jacked it all up.

  10. #650
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    In the context of the US medical industry, "not as bad" is still going to be terrible

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/18/polit...ons/index.html

    President Donald Trump has requested paperwork allowing him to move forward quickly with pardons for accused US war criminals, The New York Times reported Saturday.

    The pardons from a President who on the campaign trail expressed support for "tougher" tactics than waterboarding and going after the families of terrorists could come "on or around Memorial Day," two US officials told the Times.
    Anyways, lets celebrate some war crimes on Memorial Day

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    In the context of the US medical industry, "not as bad" is still going to be terrible

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/18/polit...ons/index.html

    President Donald Trump has requested paperwork allowing him to move forward quickly with pardons for accused US war criminals, The New York Times reported Saturday.

    The pardons from a President who on the campaign trail expressed support for "tougher" tactics than waterboarding and going after the families of terrorists could come "on or around Memorial Day," two US officials told the Times.
    Anyways, lets celebrate some war crimes on Memorial Day
    I don't get this... The US is not part of the ICC; US troops are literally unable to be charged with war crimes under international law.


  12. #652
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    The US military is charging them with murder, yes.

    But that's their choice to be pedantic about it. And yours as well

  13. #653
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    In the context of the US medical industry, "not as bad" is still going to be terrible

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/18/polit...ons/index.html

    President Donald Trump has requested paperwork allowing him to move forward quickly with pardons for accused US war criminals, The New York Times reported Saturday.

    The pardons from a President who on the campaign trail expressed support for "tougher" tactics than waterboarding and going after the families of terrorists could come "on or around Memorial Day," two US officials told the Times.
    Anyways, lets celebrate some war crimes on Memorial Day
    I don't get this... The US is not part of the ICC; US troops are literally unable to be charged with war crimes under international law.
    Still not enough to stop the persecution of patriots, goddamnit.
    meh

  14. #654
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...vanaugh-051719

    The conservative “dark money” organization that spearheaded controversial Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s contentious confirmation received $22 million in anonymous donations in the year before the 2018 court fight, newly released tax records show.

    The Judicial Crisis Network (JCN), a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit, pledged to spend as much as $10 million to ensure Kavanaugh’s confirmation — the same amount that it spent to help confirm Justice Neil Gorsuch in 2017. JCN has close ties to Trump’s judicial adviser Leonard Leo, a longtime executive at the Federalist Society, the influential conservative and libertarian lawyers network based in Washington, D.C.

    More than three-quarters of the funds JCN raised between July 2017 and June 2018 came in the form of a $17 million contribution from a single anonymous donor, according to its latest tax return, which was obtained by MapLight and OpenSecrets. Former Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy announced his retirement in June 2018, paving the way for Kavanaugh’s nomination.

    JCN’s filing lists nine other anonymous contributions, none smaller than six figures.

    The bulk of JCN’s funding has typically come from the Wellspring Committee, another secretive nonprofit run by operatives who wear multiple hats in a larger network of opaque groups. Neil Corkery, Wellspring’s current president, previously served as JCN’s treasurer; his wife, Ann, was leading Wellspring at the time.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  15. #655
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    In Texas news, ICE has found approx 1/3 of the children brought across the border aren't related to the person bringing them across (not including step-children and adoptions).

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...were-unrelated

    In a pilot program, approximately 30% of rapid DNA tests of immigrant adults who were suspected of arriving at the southern border with children who weren't theirs revealed the adults were not related to the children, an official involved in the system's temporary rollout who asked to be anonymous in order to speak freely told the Washington Examiner Friday.

    "There’s been some concern about, 'Are they stepfathers or adopted fathers?'" the official said. "Those were not the case. In these cases, they are misrepresented as family members."
    I've been aware of this issue of child trafficking since ~2010 and it made the news back in 2011:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...cc8_story.html

    The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

    And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.

    Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) initiated the six-month investigation after several Guatemalan teens were found in a dilapidated trailer park near Marion, Ohio, where they were being held captive by traffickers and forced to work at a local egg farm. The boys were among more than 125,000 unaccompanied minors who have surged into the United States since 2011, fleeing violence and unrest in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.
    But either I didn't realize how big the issue was or it's gotten larger in the past 10 years. 1/3 is a lot.
    Last edited by Spaztick; May 20 2019 at 02:43:02 AM.

  16. #656
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Was there an explanation of why this is the case?
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  17. #657
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Was there an explanation of why this is the case?
    From the first article there's no offered explanation, from the second it's human trafficking, mostly as workers looking for work that get coerced into slavery by their traffickers. I'm personally assuming the worst and hoping it isn't the case. ICE as of today has made no comment AFAIK about why so many are bringing children across that aren't their own.

    There was no mention this go-around about sex trafficking since this was news caught at the border, but Tenancingo is in southern Mexico and the biggest sex trafficking town in the country, and they send thousands across the border as sex slaves every year. Likely some of the non-relatives are being trafficked as sex slaves instead of regular slaves.

  18. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...vanaugh-051719

    The conservative “dark money” organization that spearheaded controversial Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s contentious confirmation received $22 million in anonymous donations in the year before the 2018 court fight, newly released tax records show.

    The Judicial Crisis Network (JCN), a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit, pledged to spend as much as $10 million to ensure Kavanaugh’s confirmation — the same amount that it spent to help confirm Justice Neil Gorsuch in 2017. JCN has close ties to Trump’s judicial adviser Leonard Leo, a longtime executive at the Federalist Society, the influential conservative and libertarian lawyers network based in Washington, D.C.

    More than three-quarters of the funds JCN raised between July 2017 and June 2018 came in the form of a $17 million contribution from a single anonymous donor, according to its latest tax return, which was obtained by MapLight and OpenSecrets. Former Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy announced his retirement in June 2018, paving the way for Kavanaugh’s nomination.

    JCN’s filing lists nine other anonymous contributions, none smaller than six figures.

    The bulk of JCN’s funding has typically come from the Wellspring Committee, another secretive nonprofit run by operatives who wear multiple hats in a larger network of opaque groups. Neil Corkery, Wellspring’s current president, previously served as JCN’s treasurer; his wife, Ann, was leading Wellspring at the time.
    Public choice theory in action - build a firewall of judges to guard against the unwashed when they come for your money.

  19. #659
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    https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspe...ver-of-america

    In thinking about how people make political decisions and choices, Buchanan concluded that you could only understand them as individuals seeking personal advantage. In an interview cited by MacLean, the economist observed that in the 1950s Americans commonly assumed that elected officials wanted to act in the public interest. Buchanan vehemently disagreed — that was a belief he wanted, as he put it, to “tear down.” His ideas developed into a theory that came to be known as “public choice.”

    Buchanan’s view of human nature was distinctly dismal. Adam Smith saw human beings as self-interested and hungry for personal power and material comfort, but he also acknowledged social instincts like compassion and fairness. Buchanan, in contrast, insisted that people were primarily driven by venal self-interest. Crediting people with altruism or a desire to serve others was “romantic” fantasy: politicians and government workers were out for themselves, and so, for that matter, were teachers, doctors, and civil rights activists. They wanted to control others and wrest away their resources: “Each person seeks mastery over a world of slaves,” he wrote in his 1975 book, The Limits of Liberty.

    Does that sound like your kindergarten teacher? It did to Buchanan.

    The people who needed protection were property owners, and their rights could only be secured though constitutional limits to prevent the majority of voters from encroaching on them, an idea Buchanan lays out in works like Property as a Guarantor of Liberty (1993). MacLean observes that Buchanan saw society as a cutthroat realm of makers (entrepreneurs) constantly under siege by takers (everybody else) His own language was often more stark, warning the alleged “prey” of “parasites” and “predators” out to fleece them.

  20. #660
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspe...ver-of-america

    In thinking about how people make political decisions and choices, Buchanan concluded that you could only understand them as individuals seeking personal advantage. In an interview cited by MacLean, the economist observed that in the 1950s Americans commonly assumed that elected officials wanted to act in the public interest. Buchanan vehemently disagreed — that was a belief he wanted, as he put it, to “tear down.” His ideas developed into a theory that came to be known as “public choice.”

    Buchanan’s view of human nature was distinctly dismal. Adam Smith saw human beings as self-interested and hungry for personal power and material comfort, but he also acknowledged social instincts like compassion and fairness. Buchanan, in contrast, insisted that people were primarily driven by venal self-interest. Crediting people with altruism or a desire to serve others was “romantic” fantasy: politicians and government workers were out for themselves, and so, for that matter, were teachers, doctors, and civil rights activists. They wanted to control others and wrest away their resources: “Each person seeks mastery over a world of slaves,” he wrote in his 1975 book, The Limits of Liberty.

    Does that sound like your kindergarten teacher? It did to Buchanan.

    The people who needed protection were property owners, and their rights could only be secured though constitutional limits to prevent the majority of voters from encroaching on them, an idea Buchanan lays out in works like Property as a Guarantor of Liberty (1993). MacLean observes that Buchanan saw society as a cutthroat realm of makers (entrepreneurs) constantly under siege by takers (everybody else) His own language was often more stark, warning the alleged “prey” of “parasites” and “predators” out to fleece them.
    So basically: "Don't take my monies through taxation and give it to others."
    The people who needed protection were property owners, and their rights could only be secured though constitutional limits to prevent the majority of voters from encroaching on them
    Which implies that the majority of voters are not property owners. Which implies that most people are renters. Gosh, that wouldn't cause any class warfare, would it?

    The "parasites" thing is very Rand-like.
    Last edited by Nordstern; May 20 2019 at 07:32:29 PM.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

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