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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #4621
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    any weebs get tasered at area 51 yet?

  2. #4622
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Sorry, been offline a bit. So lets see.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Tell me who exactly here is a “commie,” again?
    Whomever I feel like triggering on a given day, Comrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Is Alastair playing devils advocate trolling, or is he really trying to make the case for 2019 Trump/Republican moral equivalence with the 2019 Dems?
    Nope. There is no equivalence between the Trump Administration and any other administration in U.S. History, period, end stop. Most administrations lie. This one is a whole other level.

    This started as a question in re: Lewindowski: Do private individuals owe honesty to the corporate for-profit news media. As usual here, it got deflected from there to the vital issues of Alabamamapgate and Trump and a whole row of straw men about truth in media.....

    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    “Expecting us not to lie infringes on our freedom”

    - The GOP, as channeled by Alistair, probably...
    Speaking of said straw men.......

    Let me be clear and direct:

    I expect my Government to be honest when reporting facts and figures and policy and budgets and legislative activities and it's operating activities (i.e. what some call "transparent"), with a minor exception on issues of War perhaps.

    I do NOT expect elected Politicians to be honest, because Politicians are inherently not honest and never, ever, in the history of mankind, been honest. If someone want to argue that they are in fact honest, or that we should pass laws to "make them be honest" where the State punishes them for not being honest to what the State says is true, ok, go for it. Knock yourself out.

    I do NOT believe any private individual has a moral necessity to be honest to CNN or FOX or other for-profit corporate media entities. To Congress when testifying? Absolutely. To CNN? No, fuck CNN (or FOX).

    How that got turned into me being against truth in media, I have no idea, but it's par for the course here where folsk make every effort to not address what is said, but to deflect to vital issues like Alabamaweathermap.

    You want truth in Media, great, so do I. You're going to have alot of work ahead of you legislatively to get it, and you probably won't be happy even if you got it. And I hope you have alot of money, because our media has some serious corporate parents and they can easily outspend you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Just remember when Barth and other centrists are dumping """leftists""" into mass graves that they were driven to do it by your DIVISIVE RHETORIC

    I mean if Alistair can have feverdream posts of the totalitarian state that """leftists""" want, I get to pretend that centrists are going to go along with genocide right?
    I prefer my country not have a Federal Department of Truth and associated Truth Police to enforce the Truth Laws a la Erich's vision.

    With that said, I'm not naive enough to expect honesty from our corporate media either, and would suggest people partake of multiple-media to get a balanced viewpoint.

    That's all. No fever dreams here.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  3. #4623
    Timaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I prefer my country not have a Federal Department of Truth and associated Truth Police to enforce the Truth Laws a la Erich's vision.
    But there already is one - for example, see Elon Musk's tweet and the SEC's response. How is that any different from 'truth police'?

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  4. #4624
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I prefer my country not have a Federal Department of Truth and associated Truth Police to enforce the Truth Laws a la Erich's vision.
    But there already is one - for example, see Elon Musk's tweet and the SEC's response. How is that any different from 'truth police'?
    Is Elon Musk a politician? Or a member of the media?

    Regulatory requirements (especially in publicly traded companies) is not a Truth Police. It's enforcing laws against securities fraud ffs. It's not criminalizing political speech or media reporting or having the State decide what is or isn't truth.

    I simply must not be making my point very well on this, cause no one is getting it, so my fault, mea culpa I 'spose.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  5. #4625
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    SEC laws apply to politicians too.

    Well, in theory anyway.

    Point is there are plenty of laws that require individuals, in both private and public capacities, to be truthful or face penalty. That’s not authoritarianism, it’s just civil society.

  6. #4626
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    SEC laws apply to politicians too.

    Well, in theory anyway.

    Point is there are plenty of laws that require individuals, in both private and public capacities, to be truthful or face penalty. That’s not authoritarianism, it’s just civil society.
    Please list the last Politician or Media Personality who was successfully convicted for speaking/reporting a falsehood.

    There is a material difference in the enforceable nature of an SEC regulatory action and a Federal Truth Police going after a politician or media member for non-truth, especially in a county that has a written Constitution explicitly protecting political speech and a free press.

    If you are arguing we should, in fact, have a Federal Dept. of Truth that engages in enforcement actions against the media or politicians, great. I'd love to hear how that would work, legally, in the U.S.

    And second, how you'll get the politicians to pass it.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  7. #4627
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    I do NOT expect elected Politicians to be honest, because Politicians are inherently not honest and never, ever, in the history of mankind, been honest. If someone want to argue that they are in fact honest, or that we should pass laws to "make them be honest" where the State punishes them for not being honest to what the State says is true, ok, go for it. Knock yourself out.
    I never understood this nihilism.

    "all politicians lie, case closed" - okay why don't we do something about it then? Or do you enjoy living in a downgraded democracy?

  8. #4628
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    I do NOT expect elected Politicians to be honest, because Politicians are inherently not honest and never, ever, in the history of mankind, been honest. If someone want to argue that they are in fact honest, or that we should pass laws to "make them be honest" where the State punishes them for not being honest to what the State says is true, ok, go for it. Knock yourself out.
    I never understood this nihilism.

    "all politicians lie, case closed" - okay why don't we do something about it then? Or do you enjoy living in a downgraded democracy?
    I thought that was what voting was for?

    Also, pragmatism =/= nihilism

    What would you like to do about it mew? How would you address the issue, given the Constitutional constraints involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  9. #4629
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Well, Bill de Blasio is out ...

    I've strained myself to remember him doing anything noticeable but frankly have come up short.

    In fact, I found myself surprised that he was still running ...
    St this point anyone who’s not Sanders or Warren should probably drop out, C/D?
    Yes

  10. #4630
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Just remember when Barth and other centrists are dumping """leftists""" into mass graves that they were driven to do it by your DIVISIVE RHETORIC

    I mean if Alistair can have feverdream posts of the totalitarian state that """leftists""" want, I get to pretend that centrists are going to go along with genocide right?
    Centrists are already complicit in concentration camps. Lines have been drawn. Losers get the wall.
    meh

  11. #4631
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I prefer my country not have a Federal Department of Truth and associated Truth Police to enforce the Truth Laws a la Erich's vision.
    But there already is one - for example, see Elon Musk's tweet and the SEC's response. How is that any different from 'truth police'?
    Is Elon Musk a politician? Or a member of the media?

    Regulatory requirements (especially in publicly traded companies) is not a Truth Police. It's enforcing laws against securities fraud ffs. It's not criminalizing political speech or media reporting or having the State decide what is or isn't truth.

    I simply must not be making my point very well on this, cause no one is getting it, so my fault, mea culpa I 'spose.
    We aren’t criminalizing political speech. We are making sure it’s held to standards of fact becoming of a non shithole country.

    Same way the next Congress need to make some very explicit laws about what kind of activity the president can be allowed to participate in, and to essentially spell out the limits of executive privilege, because apparently American has a large percent of faketriot morons who clearly can’t even spell ethics.
    Last edited by erichkknaar; September 20 2019 at 11:08:51 PM.
    meh

  12. #4632
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Just remember when Barth and other centrists are dumping """leftists""" into mass graves that they were driven to do it by your DIVISIVE RHETORIC

    I mean if Alistair can have feverdream posts of the totalitarian state that """leftists""" want, I get to pretend that centrists are going to go along with genocide right?
    I prefer my country not have a Federal Department of Truth and associated Truth Police to enforce the Truth Laws a la Erich's vision.

    With that said, I'm not naive enough to expect honesty from our corporate media either, and would suggest people partake of multiple-media to get a balanced viewpoint.

    That's all. No fever dreams here.
    I think a lot of these problems with corporate media have to do with the repealing of the Fairness Doctrine under the Reagan administration tbh. Not that the media was perfect before that but it was much better than today, and the FCC definitely wasn't operating as some kind of 1984 totalitarian department of truth during the cold war.

  13. #4633
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    So Cuck a la Orange kissed the Murdering Prince’s ring and re-affirmed the USAs gimpdom to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and ordered more young Americans into harms way in a run up, I assume, to somehow invading Iran because the Houthis shot refinery, and so Netanyahu and MBS can have their war against Iran and have the Citizens of the United States of America pick up the tab. Again.

    Must be a first term incumbent Republican running next year. Like clockwork for the warmongering right.
    meh

  14. #4634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Whomever I feel like triggering on a given day, Comrade.
    .
    "Waaaah stop calling me a nazi, why don't you engage with my arguments"

    Alistair, for years on end.

  15. #4635
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    I still find it astounding that most countries have a lower standard of conduct expected for the people who run the country than they do for any other professional or business person

  16. #4636
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I prefer my country not have a Federal Department of Truth and associated Truth Police to enforce the Truth Laws a la Erich's vision.
    But there already is one - for example, see Elon Musk's tweet and the SEC's response. How is that any different from 'truth police'?
    Is Elon Musk a politician? Or a member of the media?

    Regulatory requirements (especially in publicly traded companies) is not a Truth Police. It's enforcing laws against securities fraud ffs. It's not criminalizing political speech or media reporting or having the State decide what is or isn't truth.

    I simply must not be making my point very well on this, cause no one is getting it, so my fault, mea culpa I 'spose.
    We aren’t criminalizing political speech. We are making sure it’s held to standards of fact becoming of a non shithole country.

    Same way the next Congress need to make some very explicit laws about what kind of activity the president can be allowed to participate in, and to essentially spell out the limits of executive privilege, because apparently American has a large percent of faketriot morons who clearly can’t even spell ethics.
    Rules and laws don't count for shit if they're not enforced. Trump is evidently guilty of a considerable number of crimes already, probably sufficient to put him away for the rest of his life by now, if the Houses cared to actually do their jobs.

    They don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  17. #4637
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    I still find it astounding that most countries have a lower standard of conduct expected for the people who run the country than they do for any other professional or business person
    Yes, because you haven't really internalised what privilege actually means.

    In Trump's case, literally what it says: private law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  18. #4638

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    So the DOJ is blocking a whistleblower report from reaching congress about the white house (Trump) on the white house's request.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1W423H


    This should be huge and cause outrage but who are we kidding, instead we get "fake news" and republican silence. They should replace the elephant with an ostrich.

  19. #4639
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Exactly, a good case in point. The president is now de facto above the law, so what's the point of passing another law to bind him?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  20. #4640
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    WH isn't the only one with access to the details.
    Don't think Ukraine would mind handing over some logs/details, after being held hostage.
    The Epic Store is amazing, I've been able to save so much money by not buying their games.

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