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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #17741
    August's Avatar
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    Keckers, Venec, and Laire all want to abolish the stock market. As for private property, Venec literally said a few pages ago that housing should be state-owned. Did you not read that? I think Laire also wants to abolish private property, possibly Keckers too.

  2. #17742
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Keckers, Venec, and Laire all want to abolish the stock market. As for private property, Venec literally said a few pages ago that housing should be state-owned. Did you not read that? I think Laire also wants to abolish private property, possibly Keckers too.
    Then you should go back those couple of pages and re-read what I wrote. And sigh, yes, we want to abolish private property, at least the big one.

    No, it does not involve your toothbrushes. Beucase I'm assuming you're not confusing private property with personal property, like it often happens. Just wanted to stress this out. I'm also assuming you know that people were heavily protected from evictions in commie days (at least over here) to the point that the landlords now complain it's piss hard to legally evict someone because we still have those leftover laws in effect, so they turn to hiring thugs and making lives miserable for tenants.

    I'm writing this because I also assume you're not just going for another surface level gotcha there and it was just me who didn't wrote couple of sentences more explaining this sort of stuff.
    Last edited by Venec; February 24 2021 at 09:19:33 PM.

  3. #17743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Keckers, Venec, and Laire all want to abolish the stock market. As for private property, Venec literally said a few pages ago that housing should be state-owned. Did you not read that? I think Laire also wants to abolish private property, possibly Keckers too.
    Then you should go back those couple of pages and re-read what I wrote. And sigh, yes, we want to abolish private property, at least the big one.

    No, it does not involve your toothbrushes. Beucase I'm assuming you're not confusing private property with personal property, like it often happens. Just wanted to stress this out. I'm also assuming you know that people were heavily protected from evictions in commie days (at least over here) to the point that the landlords now complain it's piss hard to legally evict someone because we still have those leftover laws in effect, so they turn to hiring thugs and making lives miserable for tenants.

    I'm writing this because I also assume you're not just going for another surface level gotcha there and it was just me who didn't wrote couple of sentences more explaining this sort of stuff.
    Thank you, that's what I thought. Razor seems to think you're not serious when you're saying this.

  4. #17744
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    Do I have to treat you like an idiot and spell it out for you?

  5. #17745
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Keckers, Venec, and Laire all want to abolish the stock market. As for private property, Venec literally said a few pages ago that housing should be state-owned. Did you not read that? I think Laire also wants to abolish private property, possibly Keckers too.
    Then you should go back those couple of pages and re-read what I wrote. And sigh, yes, we want to abolish private property, at least the big one.

    No, it does not involve your toothbrushes. Beucase I'm assuming you're not confusing private property with personal property, like it often happens. Just wanted to stress this out. I'm also assuming you know that people were heavily protected from evictions in commie days (at least over here) to the point that the landlords now complain it's piss hard to legally evict someone because we still have those leftover laws in effect, so they turn to hiring thugs and making lives miserable for tenants.

    I'm writing this because I also assume you're not just going for another surface level gotcha there and it was just me who didn't wrote couple of sentences more explaining this sort of stuff.
    Thank you, that's what I thought. Razor seems to think you're not serious when you're saying this.
    Your tone deafness is astounding.

  6. #17746
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    I think we have another of those "words mean different things for different people" sort of thing going on, so let me just spell it out:

    Private housing =/ common joe owning his house/apartment and using it to live there
    Private housing = landlord or corporation owning several houses/apartments and using it as an income
    Private propety =/ your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own
    Private propety = ownership of companies by individuals and not people who actually work there and make the company for what it is
    Personal property = your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own

    Stock market should go if it's just used as a casino for making money for rich people, if it's used for other purposes then leave it be, I don't care.
    Private ownership of big corporations needs to go, small/family business can stay, they're not hurting anyone.

    And one more note: abolishing private property is the whole workplace democracy thing, the whole socialism bit, the seizing the means of production bit that has been memed to death by now.
    Last edited by Venec; February 24 2021 at 09:49:52 PM.

  7. #17747
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    Wow Venec what radical and simple-minded thoughts those are, truly insane and unattainable. They would have us all in labor camps and eating each other to survive!

    The fact that some of you are so staunchly defending keeping something around because it supports part of your life while it crushes billions is fucking sad. Alistair asking questions is actually informative but Lall and Rufuske are just sidestepping and straw-manning at an impressive clip. August is lagging a little behind, so in a socialist society would be punished by an elected daddy of punishments.
    Last edited by Jack Coutu; February 24 2021 at 10:10:43 PM.

  8. #17748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Wow Venec what radical and simple-minded thoughts those are, truly insane and unattainable. They would have us all in labor camps and eating each other to survive!

    The fact that some of you are so staunchly defending keeping something around because it supports part of your life while it crushes billions is fucking sad.
    haha gulag thunderdomes go brrrrr

  9. #17749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    I think we have another of those "words mean different things for different people" sort of thing going on, so let me just spell it out:

    Private housing =/ common joe owning his house/apartment and using it to live there
    Private housing = landlord or corporation owning several houses/apartments and using it as an income
    Private propety =/ your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own
    Private propety = ownership of companies by individuals and not people who actually work there and make the company for what it is
    Personal property = your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own

    Stock market should go if it's just used as a casino for making money for rich people, if it's used for other purposes then leave it be, I don't care.
    Private ownership of big corporations needs to go, small/family business can stay, they're not hurting anyone.

    And one more note: abolishing private property is the whole workplace democracy thing, the whole socialism bit, the seizing the means of production bit that has been memed to death by now.
    Gotcha. In the US, private property means the land a person owns. So here, your house is your private property. I thought that's what you were referring to, especially since you mentioned it in the context of state owned housing.
    Last edited by August; February 24 2021 at 10:18:02 PM.

  10. #17750
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    In all seriousness, I would watch the crap out of a reality show where a former billionaire gets a normal, working wage and we watch him struggle with every fucking thing we know and take for granted like doing his own dishes, cooking, paying bills or making groceries.

  11. #17751
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    I think we have another of those "words mean different things for different people" sort of thing going on, so let me just spell it out:

    Private housing =/ common joe owning his house/apartment and using it to live there
    Private housing = landlord or corporation owning several houses/apartments and using it as an income
    Private propety =/ your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own
    Private propety = ownership of companies by individuals and not people who actually work there and make the company for what it is
    Personal property = your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own

    Stock market should go if it's just used as a casino for making money for rich people, if it's used for other purposes then leave it be, I don't care.
    Private ownership of big corporations needs to go, small/family business can stay, they're not hurting anyone.

    And one more note: abolishing private property is the whole workplace democracy thing, the whole socialism bit, the seizing the means of production bit that has been memed to death by now.
    Gotcha. In the US, private property means the land a person owns. So here, your house is your private property. I thought that's what you were referring to.
    I swear to whatever that half of arguments here are fueled by having different definitions of used terms.

    We should have like a dictionary with this shit pinned or smth.
    Last edited by Venec; February 24 2021 at 10:44:25 PM.

  12. #17752
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    Like I've unironically met people thinking that socialism means just getting free stuff or capitalism meaning you use money to buy stuff or goverment investing into communal housing meant you'll get a random dude assigned to your apartment.

    Fucking what mate

    EDIT:

    Like before I got interested in politics (schools don't teach shit about basic political theory and that theory is crucial to even begin participating public life and exercizing your political rights) I couldn't describe what communism was, aside from goverment shooting miners who went on strike. And killing people is obviously bad, so communism bad (what we had wasn't even communism, but w/e) and lefties=commies, so they want to shoot people too. This is sort of wordview you get after finishing polish middle school and from casual watch of mainstream corporate media.
    Last edited by Venec; February 24 2021 at 10:33:15 PM.

  13. #17753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Like I've unironically met people thinking that socialism means just getting free stuff or capitalism meaning you use money to buy stuff or goverment investing into communal housing meant you'll get a random dude assigned to your apartment.

    Fucking what mate
    You don't expect people to actually know things, do you?

  14. #17754
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

    What's fun is getting into arguments with people who subscribe to the labor theory of property but reject the labor theory of value.

  15. #17755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    I think we have another of those "words mean different things for different people" sort of thing going on, so let me just spell it out:

    Private housing =/ common joe owning his house/apartment and using it to live there
    Private housing = landlord or corporation owning several houses/apartments and using it as an income
    Private propety =/ your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own
    Private propety = ownership of companies by individuals and not people who actually work there and make the company for what it is
    Personal property = your toothbrush, your pjs, your shoes, your pots and pans, your PC, your Thatcher/Reagan waifu pillows and every other thing you own

    Stock market should go if it's just used as a casino for making money for rich people, if it's used for other purposes then leave it be, I don't care.
    Private ownership of big corporations needs to go, small/family business can stay, they're not hurting anyone.

    And one more note: abolishing private property is the whole workplace democracy thing, the whole socialism bit, the seizing the means of production bit that has been memed to death by now.
    Gotcha. In the US, private property means the land a person owns. So here, your house is your private property. I thought that's what you were referring to, especially since you mentioned it in the context of state owned housing.
    Nope, a house owned and lived in is personal property, in the US as elsewhere. Note how the IRS treats the home you live in vs. investment properties.
    Yes, but aren't they both private property?

    A quick google brings up wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property, which jives with what I said. The last sentence does mention Venec's usage of the word.

    "Private property is a legal designation for the ownership of property by non-governmental legal entities.[1] Private property is distinguishable from public property, which is owned by a state entity, and from collective or cooperative property, which is owned by a group of non-governmental entities.[2] Certain political philosophies such as anarchism and socialism make a distinction between private and personal property[3] while others blend the two together"

  16. #17756
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    I also think we should move this shit into a separate thread, like "economic theory thunderdome: marxist capitalism boogaloo" or smth.

    EDIT:

    Holy fucking shit, 888 pages of distilled autism.
    Last edited by Venec; February 24 2021 at 10:40:54 PM.

  17. #17757
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    Fair enough. Getting into parlance regarding private vs personal property doesn't matter at this point now that I know what you were referring to. Sorry, my bad.

  18. #17758
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    Yeah it's cool, sorry for that lowkey idiot bit.

  19. #17759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

    What's fun is getting into arguments with people who subscribe to the labor theory of property but reject the labor theory of value.
    Hey, I've got that one in meme format:


  20. #17760
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    Don't ask him what happens when you can afford more than one house/apartment.

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