hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 631 of 743 FirstFirst ... 131531581621628629630631632633634641681731 ... LastLast
Results 12,601 to 12,620 of 14847

Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #12601
    Venec's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Europe's Mexico - Poland
    Posts
    7,444
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    Even if he did, it doesn't matter now. It all comes down to the faith in actual changes in USA mainstream politics, it died with Bernie's failed nomination. I had really high hopes he would be elected because it also meant changes by proxy for EU and my country.
    Last edited by Venec; September 30 2020 at 06:09:08 PM.

  2. #12602

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    15,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    .....this is not a unreasonable demand.....
    I'm not overly concerned with what you think is reasonable.

    i have made this point repeatedly in this very thread
    Have you? Sure seems lost in all the repeated 'Biden is a fascist enabler, and his election will only lead to worse things than re-electing Trump' talk.

    tell us Alistair, what does happen after Biden wins then ?
    Fewer bad things in the near future than if Trump and his Proud Boys Brownshirts get a 2nd Term in Office.

    Thank you again for proving my point, being better for millions of people now isn't enough for you, it has to be everything or we may as well let it burn under Trump.

    ....tell us about this imagined American renaissance where everything is suddenly okay again....
    And you're bitching about strawmen? Lol, give me a break. I'm more worried about Nov. 4th, 2020 than I am Nov. 4th, 2050. As should we all be at this stage.

    Perhaps being where you are is why it means so little to you. Be assured, it means alot to us.

    rather than just looping back here again with a more competent fascist at the head of the republican party.
    So exhibit A (I didn't even need to search for it after all, thanks): A vote today for Joe Biden is REALLY a vote for a "more competent fascist" later. Nihilistic Fatalism at it's best. Guess we're beyond redemption, and our doom is certain, right Liare?

    maybe Alistair, the problem is you simply do not have the capacity to process ideas and concepts that do not agree with your own worldview and thus you instantly construct massive strawmen as a result ?
    Typical, disagreement must mean stupidity.

    It'd be great if just once you didn't fall into the same old "you are not in line with my flavor of left because you're too dumb to understand things" tropes when questioned.


  3. #12603

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    15,419
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    I did indeed. He was definitely my preferred Democrat last cycle and this one. I'd have liked to see him get a chance, see how his policies worked out.

    I will eternally be disappointed we never got to see a Bernie vs. Trump debate or election.

    Be assured, I didn't want Clinton, and was not a fan of Biden. I actually like Mayor Pete as well this cycle, if we going more moderate.

    But c'est la vie.


  4. #12604

    Join Date
    July 3, 2014
    Posts
    5,367
    Sooooo, did anyone have their mind changed by the US debate tonight? Any change of opinion?

  5. #12605
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The Motherland
    Posts
    32,506
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    Even if he did, it doesn't matter now. It all comes down to the faith in actual changes in USA mainstream politics, it died with Bernie's failed nomination. I had really high hopes he would be elected because it also meant changes by proxy for EU and my country.
    Nah, WW3 it is.

  6. #12606
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25, 2012
    Posts
    1,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Sooooo, did anyone have their mind changed by the US debate tonight? Any change of opinion?
    I decided to support the corrupt, senile sex pest.


  7. #12607
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 11, 2011
    Posts
    7,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    I did indeed. He was definitely my preferred Democrat last cycle and this one. I'd have liked to see him get a chance, see how his policies worked out.

    I will eternally be disappointed we never got to see a Bernie vs. Trump debate or election.

    Be assured, I didn't want Clinton, and was not a fan of Biden. I actually like Mayor Pete as well this cycle, if we going more moderate.

    But c'est la vie.
    Mayor Pete was everything that is wrong with neoliberal politics.

    Hey Pete, what do you think about x as a problem? Well, I recognise that x is a problem and by working together we can solve x.

    Heavy, heavy, heavy on platitudes, super light on actual policies.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  8. #12608

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    15,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    I did indeed. He was definitely my preferred Democrat last cycle and this one. I'd have liked to see him get a chance, see how his policies worked out.

    I will eternally be disappointed we never got to see a Bernie vs. Trump debate or election.

    Be assured, I didn't want Clinton, and was not a fan of Biden. I actually like Mayor Pete as well this cycle, if we going more moderate.

    But c'est la vie.
    Mayor Pete was everything that is wrong with neoliberal politics.

    Hey Pete, what do you think about x as a problem? Well, I recognise that x is a problem and by working together we can solve x.

    Heavy, heavy, heavy on platitudes, super light on actual policies.
    Not an unfair criticism.

    But he was young, energetic and charismatic. And at heart, "liberal" by U.S. Standards (liberal, not progressive, admittedly).

    My largest concern with Biden was his "Bob Dole'ness". He's not proved that fear wrong to date.

    Like with Clinton, the Dems may have picked the "safe" candidate, but they also picked one that could most easily lose to the demagogue Trump in the General election IMO.

    Trump needed to be met with equal vigor and enthusiasm, but with truth and human decency on their side. Biden, sadly, is as enthusiastic as a lump. And GWBush-like public speaker at that.
    Last edited by Alistair; September 30 2020 at 07:11:49 PM.


  9. #12609
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    16,124
    I'm curious if anyone (else) on here has actually read the party platforms? They both published one.
    meh

  10. #12610
    mewninn's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    3,921
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    Even if he did, it doesn't matter now. It all comes down to the faith in actual changes in USA mainstream politics, it died with Bernie's failed nomination. I had really high hopes he would be elected because it also meant changes by proxy for EU and my country.
    I agree. People had some pretty strange ideas of Bernie as a Peace&Cooperation leader. There would've been significant conflict with allies who had grown used to the way things have been done for the past few decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    5 years in and you Alistair still don't get it that you lot are in this mess because of decades of neoliberal economic and idpol policies practiced by your two main political parties that take a massive dump on anyone below upper middle class. Even if you lot don't elect an actual fascist and instead Biden, you're just going to have even more angry people turning to fascists just to punish some random scapegoats because he won't fix their problems.

    But hey, it's your country. Do what you will.
    Didn't Alistair vote for Bernie?
    I did indeed. He was definitely my preferred Democrat last cycle and this one. I'd have liked to see him get a chance, see how his policies worked out.

    I will eternally be disappointed we never got to see a Bernie vs. Trump debate or election.

    Be assured, I didn't want Clinton, and was not a fan of Biden. I actually like Mayor Pete as well this cycle, if we going more moderate.

    But c'est la vie.
    Mayor Pete was everything that is wrong with neoliberal politics.

    Hey Pete, what do you think about x as a problem? Well, I recognise that x is a problem and by working together we can solve x.

    Heavy, heavy, heavy on platitudes, super light on actual policies.
    He did have policies if you looked but they were hostile to the youth to a draconian extent.

    There was a national service proposal where the main thing you got out of it was up to $4,000 in student debt relief. The average student debt holder has about 30k.

    The modification of healthcare law would've involved a very strong penalty for not buying insurance. Since the young are the most uninsured pool, this is who the penalty is targeted at. This number was in the thousands of dollars range iirc.

  11. #12611
    Liare's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    14,844
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    .....this is not a unreasonable demand.....
    I'm not overly concerned with what you think is reasonable.

    i have made this point repeatedly in this very thread
    Have you? Sure seems lost in all the repeated 'Biden is a fascist enabler, and his election will only lead to worse things than re-electing Trump' talk.
    you refuse to do a modicum of research before inventing a straw-man to rage at. so are you a closeted republican ? you reason like one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    tell us Alistair, what does happen after Biden wins then ?
    Fewer bad things in the near future than if Trump and his Proud Boys Brownshirts get a 2nd Term in Office.
    really ? you honestly think that if Biden wins things are just going to simmer down and the whole fascism-in-the-republican-party thing goes away as dew under a morning sun ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Thank you again for proving my point, being better for millions of people now isn't enough for you, it has to be everything or we may as well let it burn under Trump.
    the future horizon doesn't stop at the next election, when the flat out fascist dominated republican party swings back into power what then ?
    they're undoubtedly going to be on someone significantly less narcissistic and incompetent than Trump is, but they're not going away, so how is Biden going to meaningfully address that ? tell us please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    ....tell us about this imagined American renaissance where everything is suddenly okay again....
    And you're bitching about strawmen? Lol, give me a break. I'm more worried about Nov. 4th, 2020 than I am Nov. 4th, 2050. As should we all be at this stage.

    Perhaps being where you are is why it means so little to you. Be assured, it means alot to us.
    you heard it here first folks, THE FUTURE IS IRRELEVANT! ONLY THE NEXT ELECTION MATTERS!
    the absolute best outcome of electing Biden is a short reprieve that needs to be used to its full extend, you are behaving as if electing Biden makes all this shit go away, when the man is complicit in creating the conditions for where America is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    rather than just looping back here again with a more competent fascist at the head of the republican party.
    So exhibit A (I didn't even need to search for it after all, thanks): A vote today for Joe Biden is REALLY a vote for a "more competent fascist" later. Nihilistic Fatalism at it's best. Guess we're beyond redemption, and our doom is certain, right Liare?
    this, is outlining another repeating historical pattern that you are again, refusing to see and instead assume is "nihilistic fatalism at its best". here's the thing you don't seem to grasp, Fascism, when it loses, adapts and come back when the opportunity presents itself, unless it's at the tipping point where it can simply seize power outright because it's fundamentally a structural problem in society and without radical changes in the political structure of America, then yes your entire social model is doomed to failure down this path, it's already failing because your social system is incapable of meeting the needs and demands of its people. Fascism, protesting in the street is a symptom of a deeper seated problem, the complete inability of the american socio-economic system to absorb any sort out outside shock or pressure because "PROFITS!". it was going to happen due to climate change, COVID simply put a supercharger on the already creeping process itself.

    maybe Alistair, the problem is you simply do not have the capacity to process ideas and concepts that do not agree with your own worldview and thus you instantly construct massive strawmen as a result ?

    Typical, disagreement must mean stupidity.

    It'd be great if just once you didn't fall into the same old "you are not in line with my flavor of left because you're too dumb to understand things" tropes when questioned.
    it would be better if you stopped building planet sized strawmen every opportunity you get, i might even be inclined to take you a bit more seriously.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #12612
    Liare's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    14,844
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    I'm curious if anyone (else) on here has actually read the party platforms? They both published one.
    i skipped Trump's because, lets face it, it's meaningless. i skimmed Biden's platform, and it is weaksauce to say the least. there's all the usual morsels that are never going to get passed, a commitment to tweak on the ACA that's going to produce fuck-and-all in real terms and a terribly weak-wristed commitment to combatting climate change that's even more lax than what's seen in Europe. but hey, there's the 15$ minimum wage in there, so the last 4 years weren't completely wasted.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  13. #12613

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    15,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    you refuse to do a modicum of research
    Correct.

    so are you a closeted republican ? you reason like one.
    If you say so.

    really ? you honestly think that if Biden wins things are just going to simmer down and the whole fascism-in-the-republican-party thing goes away as dew under a morning sun ?
    No.

    What I think is that "Fewer bad things will happen in the near future than if Trump and his Proud Boys Brownshirts get a 2nd Term in Office."

    the future horizon doesn't stop at the next election, when the flat out fascist dominated republican party swings back into power what then ?
    they're undoubtedly going to be on someone significantly less narcissistic and incompetent than Trump is, but they're not going away, so how is Biden going to meaningfully address that ? tell us please.
    Right now our house is on fire. I'm not going to choose to let it burn because one day in the future another fire, a potentially worse fire, might occur.

    you heard it here first folks, THE FUTURE IS IRRELEVANT! ONLY THE NEXT ELECTION MATTERS!
    People like you really shouldn't whine about strawmen, given how often you engage in them.

    We're bleeding to death from a huge wound, and we have cancer. Treat the wound first, then treat the cancer.

    the absolute best outcome of electing Biden is a short reprieve that needs to be used to its full extend
    I'll take it. Incremental improvement is still improvement. A chance is still a chance.

    you are behaving as if electing Biden makes all this shit go away
    No, I'm not. At all. In any way. Because it won't.

    when the man is complicit in creating the conditions for where America is now.
    So Biden is a Fascist enabler, same as Trump. Got it.

    Fascism, when it loses, adapts and come back when the opportunity presents itself.......
    Defeat it today, first. When it returns, defeat it again, then.

    it would be better if you stopped building planet sized strawmen every opportunity you get
    Hypocrite says what?

    i might even be inclined to take you a bit more seriously.
    I doubt it, honestly. But happily I'm unconcerned if you do or don't.
    Last edited by Alistair; September 30 2020 at 07:57:05 PM.


  14. #12614
    rufuske's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    3,403
    Take your pills or less pizza deliveries Liare.

  15. #12615
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    6,180
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Take your pills or less pizza deliveries Liare.
    And Alistair.

  16. #12616

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    4,632
    For you guys, because I care:


  17. #12617
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 9, 2011
    Location
    marketjacker
    Posts
    1,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Watched about 3 minutes, developed an ulcer, quit. What a goddamn shitshow.
    Imagine living here and knowing there are two more.

  18. #12618

  19. #12619

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    Embracing Mediocrity
    Posts
    3,133
    Makes me wonder if people type that sort of thing into Google to confirm their existing bias or for some other reason.

    Like, if you're planning to vote Biden, and thought he did well, but you expect more people on the internet to think Trump won, which would you search for?

  20. #12620
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 9, 2011
    Posts
    9,449
    right sorry, and to avoid confusion and walls of texts

    yes - the US's political scene (and quite a few places in north europe, lets not sling shit here) is crap at the moment

    yes - real, substantial change needs to happen

    yes - biden is crap and old and rubbish and so on

    BUT

    that isn't relevant right this second. In a month, people in america will have a choice between Trump or Biden - not Trump or Biden and a brand new way of doing things, or Trump and Jesus, or anything else - Trump and Biden.

    so with that in mind, sharing things equalling Biden to Hitler, or isn't exactly useful. He's what there is. Bringing Biden down for not being perfect, isn't useful. The reality is, it's Trump vs Biden.

    So you can either be disruptive hoping for a better system - which isn't going to happen in a month, and vote for an alternative which indirectly helps Trump, or you can just be a fucking realist and vote Biden, and try and instigate change while he's on office. Your alternative is another 4 years - or more if he gets his way - of Trump, and enjoy being the person saying 'i told you so' while the US, and as a knock on the rest of the world drowns in even more shite

    THIS IS WHY people who are so blinkered, so extreme in their views do my head in - you don't live in the real world.
    Last edited by teds :D; September 30 2020 at 10:32:57 PM.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •