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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #5461
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  2. #5462

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.

  3. #5463
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    Nope. The people who come close are just a lot of progressives. On paper they have okay politics, but they're completely submissive to the Democratic establishment. No real leaders or insurgents there to rock the boat.

  4. #5464
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  5. #5465

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    NIMBY

  6. #5466

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    Aaaand the White house just admitted that there was indeed a quid pro quo over Ukraine aid. Not that it actually mattered in regard to soliciting foreign aid to influence the election.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHGu7ggRWAo

    And while we're at it lets put the next G7 at a Trump owned facility because why not. Of course benefitting the Presidents personal finances is totes ok. Since we're so open about it it has to be ok...


    It's like they've figured out they don't even have to pretend to try like they're above board anymore.

  7. #5467
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Mulvaney confirmed the existence of a quid pro quo and offered this retort: "Get over it."

    "We do that all the time with foreign policy," Mulvaney said of the influence of politics in the Trump administration.
    I can imagine no crime for were this response couldn't be used by this administration.

  8. #5468

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.

  9. #5469
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.
    In every American community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects—ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally. Here, then, is a lesson in safe logic.

  10. #5470
    Ski Boot Fortior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Mulvaney confirmed the existence of a quid pro quo and offered this retort: "Get over it."

    "We do that all the time with foreign policy," Mulvaney said of the influence of politics in the Trump administration.
    I can imagine no crime for were this response couldn't be used by this administration.
    Then he tried to walk it back a few hours later. Amazing scenes.
    Real men pvp in barges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus View Post
    good to see that Fortior seems like a decent bloke and isn't a gay fat faggot nerd despite his pony avatar

  11. #5471
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Mulvaney confirmed the existence of a quid pro quo and offered this retort: "Get over it."

    "We do that all the time with foreign policy," Mulvaney said of the influence of politics in the Trump administration.
    I can imagine no crime for were this response couldn't be used by this administration.
    Then he tried to walk it back a few hours later. Amazing scenes.
    No take-backsies!

  12. #5472
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.
    Yes, I am for taxing billionaires and millionaires more and more fairly.

    No, I am not for taxing $100K or less wage earners more.

    What is your complaint, exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  13. #5473
    mewninn's Avatar
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    If you think of private insurance premiums as a tax, it's more likely that "taxes" on this bracket could go down a little under a Sanders or Warren presidency. All of the debate moderators should be launched into the sun for asking that stupid tax question like 6 times

  14. #5474

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.
    Yes, I am for taxing billionaires and millionaires more and more fairly.

    No, I am not for taxing $100K or less wage earners more.

    What is your complaint, exactly?
    I'll spell it out more clearly this time.

    Not
    In
    My
    Back
    Yard

    It is the way it is precisely due to large numbers of individuals such as yourself, unwilling to make even the smallest sacrifice so that everyone can benefit, ruled by the very small minority that are willing to enslave an entire population.

  15. #5475

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    If you think of private insurance premiums as a tax, it's more likely that "taxes" on this bracket could go down a little under a Sanders or Warren presidency. All of the debate moderators should be launched into the sun for asking that stupid tax question like 6 times
    Until the 'priviledged middle class', lulz, stops to consider just how much tax the poor actually pay in proportion to their income, simply by buying food and clothing and etc via sales tax...

  16. #5476
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.
    Yes, I am for taxing billionaires and millionaires more and more fairly.

    No, I am not for taxing $100K or less wage earners more.

    What is your complaint, exactly?
    I'll spell it out more clearly this time.

    Not
    In
    My
    Back
    Yard

    It is the way it is precisely due to large numbers of individuals such as yourself, unwilling to make even the smallest sacrifice so that everyone can benefit, ruled by the very small minority that are willing to enslave an entire population.
    Saying NIMBY isn't actually an argument you know.

    Lets try again: Why exactly should I support a regressive tax system where even more of the burden is placed on those making $100K or less (i.e. the not rich), and even less is placed on those making millions to billions (i.e. the rich)?

    Also, just for the lols, please tell us all the sacrifices you make so everyone can benefit. Thanks.
    Last edited by Alistair; October 18 2019 at 03:59:20 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Just in case this isn't clear by now (and it really shouldn't be necessary to point out, you're all grownups) saying that people should be killed because of their political or religious convictions IS NOT FUCKING OK. Tempban handed out in the movie thread. Apply a minimum of self control ffs

  17. #5477

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.
    Yes, I am for taxing billionaires and millionaires more and more fairly.

    No, I am not for taxing $100K or less wage earners more.

    What is your complaint, exactly?
    I'll spell it out more clearly this time.

    Not
    In
    My
    Back
    Yard

    It is the way it is precisely due to large numbers of individuals such as yourself, unwilling to make even the smallest sacrifice so that everyone can benefit, ruled by the very small minority that are willing to enslave an entire population.
    Saying NIMBY isn't actually an argument you know.

    Lets try again: Why exactly should I support a regressive tax system where even more of the burden is placed on those making $100K or less (i.e. the not rich), and even less is placed on those making millions to billions (i.e. the rich)?

    Also, just for the lols, please tell us all the sacrifices you make so everyone can benefit. Thanks.
    Why are you unwilling to pay more tax than you currently are, in order for all of society to receive 'socialism'?
    You should not support a regressive tax system, but you should be willing to pay more in taxes than you currently do, in order for the truly wealthy to have the very topmost of their income be taxed at a more socially equitable tax (even approaching 90%).
    If you were truly a fiscal conservative, you would realize that expenses need income to prevent debt. The people of the nation just want everyone to chip in on the income side, yourself included.

  18. #5478
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    If you think of private insurance premiums as a tax, it's more likely that "taxes" on this bracket could go down a little under a Sanders or Warren presidency. All of the debate moderators should be launched into the sun for asking that stupid tax question like 6 times
    Until the 'priviledged middle class', lulz, stops to consider just how much tax the poor actually pay in proportion to their income, simply by buying food and clothing and etc via sales tax...
    uh well alright everyone still pays a lot of taxes in relation to the top brackets.

    Once you add in compulsory payments as a tax, our tax rate for the average worker is over 40%. This eclipses countries like Denmark and Germany:



    https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org...alth-premiums/

  19. #5479

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    If you think of private insurance premiums as a tax, it's more likely that "taxes" on this bracket could go down a little under a Sanders or Warren presidency. All of the debate moderators should be launched into the sun for asking that stupid tax question like 6 times
    Until the 'priviledged middle class', lulz, stops to consider just how much tax the poor actually pay in proportion to their income, simply by buying food and clothing and etc via sales tax...
    uh well alright everyone still pays a lot of taxes in relation to the top brackets.

    Once you add in compulsory payments as a tax, our tax rate for the average worker is over 40%. This eclipses countries like Denmark and Germany:



    https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org...alth-premiums/
    preaching to the choir here:
    regressive taxes such as sales tax, property tax on homes and vehicles, registration tax, identification tax, the list goes on; they all are a non-zero weight on the backs of the middle class, for sure.
    But those same middle class in their comfortable lives just don't really have a grasp on what the low income population that needs three or more part time jobs to live paycheck to paycheck go through.
    The problem is the middle class can't see beyond their own first world problems to realize that if they were willing to pay more tax to truly provide living wages, medical care, equal opportunity to the entire nation, then the truly oppressive wealth would lose the ability to pit them against their staunchest allies, the poor.

  20. #5480
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Watching Warren battle the fed and Wall Street democrats will be entertaining. Are there any Bernie-esque lefties but 20 years younger coming through? Someone to bridge the gap between him and AOC
    I don't know honestly. I think the Bernie Bro/Warren Women are a growing Demographic here, but apart from the quite young AOC crowdm I'm not sure there are alot of already-in-place folks to help carry the torch.

    Hence why I think she'll get some things done, the more moderate-left ideas that do in fact have some really strong bipartisan (voter, not elected official) support. The more aggressive stuff, no, not in the short term. Maybe the longer term tho if she's good at being President.
    One thing I like about her, from the interviews I've seen, she really truly seems to despise predatory business practices. Payday loans, bad mortages, that kind of stuff.
    Agreed. Her sense of Justice is not in any way misplaced I think. She loathes the truly rich, of course, but frankly those fuckers probably deserve to be hated.

    My concern is the same as it always is: That "the rich" ends up being "People who make $100K", which isn't rich at all in many places.

    Keep it aimed at the billionaires and upper millionaires, I'm willing to go along, give it a chance, and see how it works in practice.
    Classic "i am all for x unless it affects me" scenes from this man.
    Yes, I am for taxing billionaires and millionaires more and more fairly.

    No, I am not for taxing $100K or less wage earners more.

    What is your complaint, exactly?
    I'll spell it out more clearly this time.

    Not
    In
    My
    Back
    Yard

    It is the way it is precisely due to large numbers of individuals such as yourself, unwilling to make even the smallest sacrifice so that everyone can benefit, ruled by the very small minority that are willing to enslave an entire population.
    Saying NIMBY isn't actually an argument you know.

    Lets try again: Why exactly should I support a regressive tax system where even more of the burden is placed on those making $100K or less (i.e. the not rich), and even less is placed on those making millions to billions (i.e. the rich)?

    Also, just for the lols, please tell us all the sacrifices you make so everyone can benefit. Thanks.
    It’s not that fucking complicated dude.

    This is effective (read, actually paid) tax, not marginal

    [
    It’s just a matter of how far back on that curve you want to go.

    As a good Eisenhower socialist, I happen to think 1952 looks like a good place to start.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; October 18 2019 at 07:20:41 PM.

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