hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 376 of 427 FirstFirst ... 276326366373374375376377378379386426 ... LastLast
Results 7,501 to 7,520 of 8522

Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #7501
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Even if Bernie, who shouldn't even be a Democrat in the first place, gets elected.
    That is a feature, not a bug.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  2. #7502
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    14,775
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Nothing short of a revolution is going to end the two party system.
    Which isn't going to happen.

    Even if Bernie, who shouldn't even be a Democrat in the first place, gets elected.
    Your second wish was to get rid of Trump, current polling suggests Bernie is the best route to that.
    As stated, Bernie will get my vote come the General election.

    I won't stay home (as a center-right so-called "swing" voter) if Bernie gets the nomination.

    But I don't think he'll win. Lets all hope I am just as wrong about that as I was about Trump winning, eh?


  3. #7503
    Ruri's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Exclamation, USA
    Posts
    2,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    But I don't think he'll win. Lets all hope I am just as wrong about that as I was about Trump winning, eh?
    I'm an unhesitating Bernie supporter, and even I get nervous sometimes when I think about the potential amount of money and press that will be trained against him in the general election. But I always circle back around to two points, and you made the first one yourself - once people get into the voting booth and are staring directly at four more years of Trump, I think they'll make the right call even if polling right now shows they won't be happy about it. And the second point is that really no matter who the Dems put up, every fiber of the Trump Party media and political machine will be engaged in defeating them because they see any challenge to Trump's supreme authority as a threat. The idea that we would somehow have an easier time if we elected a milquetoast centrist is just delusional, and every one of the current candidates has strengths and weaknesses that will have to be dealt with in order to win.
    This is worse than I thought, there's no butter in my coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
    Do you even lift? Do you even post.

  4. #7504
    mewninn's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    3,202
    https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ntial-savings/

    "Fact checking" at work

    Bernie cites a study, his statement is rated as Mostly False because some hack think tanks disagree with the figures. The Urban Institute saying that total healthcare spending would actually go up under a single-payer plan that negotiates prices is the type of crackpot science you expect from economists.
    Last edited by mewninn; February 26 2020 at 05:44:06 PM.

  5. #7505
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The Motherland
    Posts
    31,869
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    every one of the current candidates has strengths and weaknesses that will have to be dealt with in order to win.
    idk i couldn't care less for all these clinton shills

    warren had some spine before
    tulsi got nuked basically (VP?)

  6. #7506
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25, 2012
    Posts
    1,001
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    every one of the current candidates has strengths and weaknesses that will have to be dealt with in order to win.
    idk i couldn't care less for all these clinton shills

    warren had some spine before
    tulsi got nuked basically (VP?)
    Bernie/Gabbard 2020?


  7. #7507

    Join Date
    November 5, 2011
    Posts
    13,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Do you want a reformed DNC or are you happy with the current merry go round of fuckwits calling themselves political consultants and thinking of new ways to defend oppressive healthcare systems because some pharma CEOs need more yachts?
    There is very little about American Politics (in either party or systemically) I am happy with.

    I do not believe a Bernie Sanders nomination and (likely IMO) defeat in a general election will change much of it.

    Do you think the Democratic establishment will simply roll over and die if Sanders gets the nomination, or even gets elected? You think they won't undercut him? You think they'll just line up in lockstep behind him and his revolution?

    I don't want to see a reformed DNC. I want to see an end to the two-party system, more than almost anything else in Politics....that and Trump being defeated.
    The issue here is as usual you're just advocating to keep things the same because you decided change can't happen, so it's not even worth attempting.

  8. #7508
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    4,823
    Barth’s cracking the colons out!!

  9. #7509
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 24, 2011
    Location
    Putting owls in your Moss
    Posts
    9,752

  10. #7510
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 8, 2013
    Posts
    9,338
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post

  11. #7511
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    14,775
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Do you want a reformed DNC or are you happy with the current merry go round of fuckwits calling themselves political consultants and thinking of new ways to defend oppressive healthcare systems because some pharma CEOs need more yachts?
    There is very little about American Politics (in either party or systemically) I am happy with.

    I do not believe a Bernie Sanders nomination and (likely IMO) defeat in a general election will change much of it.

    Do you think the Democratic establishment will simply roll over and die if Sanders gets the nomination, or even gets elected? You think they won't undercut him? You think they'll just line up in lockstep behind him and his revolution?

    I don't want to see a reformed DNC. I want to see an end to the two-party system, more than almost anything else in Politics....that and Trump being defeated.
    The issue here is as usual you're just advocating to keep things the same because you decided change can't happen, so it's not even worth attempting.
    In a nutshell, yes.

    I've certainly been wrong on election predictions before, most obviously with Trump. I thought Clinton had it in the bag easy till the moment they started announcing results.

    With that said.....

    I don't think Bernie can win a general election vs. Trump. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, and I won't be angry if he does.

    I also don't think Bernie will get any of his agenda passed by Congress. Maybe he'll prove me wrong there too.

    So yes, it's a fair observation to say "Alistair doesn't think (Bernie's) 'change' can realistically happen, so it's not worth voting for it".

    I did vote for him in the 2016 (D) primary tho, for what it's worth.

    I do think Mayor Pete could have a chance (not sure how good) to defeat Trump, and a better chance to get some incremental-type change through the system. He's slick, likable, calm, intelligent and moderate, everything Trump isn't.

    I describe this as pragmatism, taking the best I think we can get. You're free to think it's something else.

    Of course, it should also be remembered that I am not a Democratic Socialist or European Leftist in my politics. I am a economic-center-right socially-progressive guy. I do not value a revolution the way some of you do. It's not in my own interests.


  12. #7512
    Paradox's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 24, 2011
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Devonshire
    Posts
    8,459
    Are you sure Bernie is less electable than Pete Buttergoog?


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  13. #7513
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    16,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post

    But 35 seems a reasonable age limit, if there has to be one.
    Reasonable upper limit
    Interesting. What positive gains would that lead to, you think?

    And would we do that for other elected offices too?
    I mean hypothetically, it could motivate planning and policy for more than the next few years if people who were going to have to live with the consequences for the next 50 years were in power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  14. #7514
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    14,775
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Are you sure Bernie is less electable than Pete Buttergoog?
    Nope.

    I'm not sure of anything these days when it comes to politics.


  15. #7515
    mewninn's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    3,202
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Are you sure Bernie is less electable than Pete Buttergoog?
    Nope.

    I'm not sure of anything these days when it comes to politics.
    Yeah that's fair. Electability isn't a science, and we just have gut checks to go on.

  16. #7516
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    16,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Are you sure Bernie is less electable than Pete Buttergoog?
    Nope.

    I'm not sure of anything these days when it comes to politics.
    You make a good point. We are indeed in the stupidest timeline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  17. #7517
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    14,775
    I look at it this way, who is best suited to defeat Trump:

    -A fellow populist (albeit "far" left instead of far right), loud and aggressive and in your face, with a similar rabble-rousing, concert-hall-rally filling, passionate-loyalist-base, a party-nonconformist-outsider who wants to change things in a major way from he status quo (or at least says he does), all for the forgotton "little guy"? Worked for Trump, didn't it? Why couldn't it work for Bernie.

    -A smooth, extremely well-spoken likable, good looking, younger Obama-style "hope and change" candidate with similarly moderate Democratic views, the FIRST gay President, with likely the first female VP if I had to guess, who represents a "return to normalcy" of politics, the warm comfort of the status quo of respectable professional non-reality TV-star grabbin' um by the pussy Trump era, who will still believe and promote say 80% of what Bernie would. Worked for Obama, why can't it work for Pete.

    Do I know which of these is right? Could BOTH be right? Could both be wrong?

    I honestly don't know. I wish I did.

    I see pros and cons to both. The word Socialist still carries a stigma here. Being gay most certainly still carries stigma in some quarters here, sadly. Which is worse vs. Trump, no idea tbqh.

    But I do, truly, want to see Trump defeated.


  18. #7518
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    7,432
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Why couldn't it work for Bernie.
    Because the idea of communism or communism light (socialism) is bullshit and people don’t like it for obvious reasons.

  19. #7519
    Venec's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Europe's Mexico - Poland
    Posts
    6,531
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Why couldn't it work for Bernie.
    Because the idea of communism or communism light (socialism) is bullshit and people don’t like it for obvious reasons.

  20. #7520

    Join Date
    November 5, 2011
    Posts
    13,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I look at it this way, who is best suited to defeat Trump:

    -A fellow populist (albeit "far" left instead of far right), loud and aggressive and in your face, with a similar rabble-rousing, concert-hall-rally filling, passionate-loyalist-base, a party-nonconformist-outsider who wants to change things in a major way from he status quo (or at least says he does), all for the forgotton "little guy"? Worked for Trump, didn't it? Why couldn't it work for Bernie.

    -A smooth, extremely well-spoken likable, good looking, younger Obama-style "hope and change" candidate with similarly moderate Democratic views, the FIRST gay President, with likely the first female VP if I had to guess, who represents a "return to normalcy" of politics, the warm comfort of the status quo of respectable professional non-reality TV-star grabbin' um by the pussy Trump era, who will still believe and promote say 80% of what Bernie would. Worked for Obama, why can't it work for Pete.

    Do I know which of these is right? Could BOTH be right? Could both be wrong?

    I honestly don't know. I wish I did.

    I see pros and cons to both. The word Socialist still carries a stigma here. Being gay most certainly still carries stigma in some quarters here, sadly. Which is worse vs. Trump, no idea tbqh.

    But I do, truly, want to see Trump defeated.
    That's some spectacularly lopsided description work.

    You sure youre not a journalist at one of the major stations cause whew.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •