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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #16281
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Nah, who am I kidding, average viewer won't make it past 15s.

  2. #16282
    Liare's Avatar
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    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  3. #16283
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post


    Nah, who am I kidding, average viewer won't make it past 15s.
    Yes were he says so much about 2020 that it blows the mind.

    Except you are just over trying to defend the idea that unequal reactions is what breeds fascist ideals. It does show you basically are identifying more with one side than another though, which is just dumb.

    Eisenhower and his comments here are not really relevant to your flawed ideas, and pretending people here haven't already seen this speech, its truth in our world, or it's long term consequences is just you being foolish.

  4. #16284

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    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  5. #16285
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Republicans: "Back the Blue!"

    Democrats: "Agreed. We support this guy:"


    Republicans: "Not like that."
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
    Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard

  6. #16286

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    A lot of white middle class America is perfectly happy with fascism. 70 million people voted for Trump. They've had 4 years seeing the same outrageous shit as the rest of the world. Even if they do only watch fox news (although the viewer figures don't really bear that out) they'd still have seen enough to learn who he really is and they decided that actually they liked that.
    Ding, ding, ding. We have a bingo. So what we do with them? Gas and starve them as Erich wants? Or maybe, just maybe, address the underlying issues that allowed this to exist in the first place?
    It's almost as if people like Keckers keep talking about that but esteemed posters like you keep yelling the same tripe over it.

    Are you ok bro? You're constantly just on the brink of getting it...

    Alistair going "both sides omg, the real fascists" is not "addressing the underlying issues"

  7. #16287
    Keckers's Avatar
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    What's amazing is the driving motivation behind impeachment is the democrats don't think they can beat trump in 2024 if he is allowed to run. That says everything about how they plan to govern.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  8. #16288
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's amazing is the driving motivation behind impeachment is the democrats don't think they can beat trump in 2024 if he is allowed to run. That says everything about how they plan to govern.
    I disagree. A coup attempt should have consequences. Eliminating his secret service protection and pension is a good bonus. Especially the way he grifts the secret service by having them stay in his expensive hotels, and bring their own poop trailer, etc.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  9. #16289

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's amazing is the driving motivation behind impeachment is the democrats don't think they can beat trump in 2024 if he is allowed to run. That says everything about how they plan to govern.
    I disagree. A coup attempt should have consequences. Eliminating his secret service protection and pension is a good bonus. Especially the way he grifts the secret service by having them stay in his expensive hotels, and bring their own poop trailer, etc.
    I don't think anyone would say it shouldn't have consequences. Absolutely should.

    Just feels so fucking half hearted after all this time.

  10. #16290
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's amazing is the driving motivation behind impeachment is the democrats don't think they can beat trump in 2024 if he is allowed to run. That says everything about how they plan to govern.
    I mean you are just projecting, but ok. Even if he ran to lose I think it'd be a loss, and would just make things worse.

  11. #16291
    Jori McKie's Avatar
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    Opinion piece:
    If Trump looks like a fascist and acts like a fascist, then maybe he is one
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...aybe-he-is-one

    I just don't agree with the maybe in the title. For all i can see the U.S. is in the pre stage of being a fascist state, maybe not the next 4 years but the roots of fascism won't go away soon.


    If you have access watch BBC The Rise of the Nazis 2parter, one of the better educational docus. With a few words, the conservatives as the likes of von Schleicher and von Papen enabled Hitler and the NSDAP because they wanted to get rid of the SPD and install an authoritarian government. With their hubris the conservatives thought they could control Hitler and the NSDAP, well it took Hitler only 18months to get rid of the conservatives. Von Schleicher was shot! Von Papen was more luckily.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_von_Schleicher
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Papen


    If i were a cynic, the U.S. conservatives didn't read/watch this yet because it is the playbook on to how with severe side effects.
    Last edited by Jori McKie; January 17 2021 at 11:11:02 AM.

  12. #16292

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    A lot of white middle class America is perfectly happy with fascism. 70 million people voted for Trump. They've had 4 years seeing the same outrageous shit as the rest of the world. Even if they do only watch fox news (although the viewer figures don't really bear that out) they'd still have seen enough to learn who he really is and they decided that actually they liked that.
    Ding, ding, ding. We have a bingo. So what we do with them? Gas and starve them as Erich wants? Or maybe, just maybe, address the underlying issues that allowed this to exist in the first place?
    Racist fucks haven’t been punished properly for their hatred for 150 years? Americas biggest mistake was being too soft on these cunts after the civil war. The cancer has been allowed to hang around.
    This is not just an American issue. We see the exact same pattern all across Europe with a white lower-to-middle class voting against their own interests, fuelled by more or less overtly racist right-wing parties. They identify themselves as disenfranchised by the "liberal political elite" and play on vague feelings of a glorious national past. These people aren't really oppressed in any way, but they have a feeling that they might be and that someone is to blame. Shady politicians and corporate donors want to exploit these feelings for personal gain and suddenly we end up with this.

    In Sweden we call these "missnöjespartier", literally "disappointment parties", and the reason we are seeing them come out in force right now is, at my best guess, a combination of two factors:
    - we are far enough removed from the wars that the people who actually remember what fascism looks like are gone
    - the explosion of media, news and social, has made it increasingly hard to get an objective account of current events

    Keckers said it best: "Mixing social media with a culturally undervalued secondary education system is one of the cruelest jokes of the past decade."

  13. #16293
    Lowa [NSN]'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    A lot of white middle class America is perfectly happy with fascism. 70 million people voted for Trump. They've had 4 years seeing the same outrageous shit as the rest of the world. Even if they do only watch fox news (although the viewer figures don't really bear that out) they'd still have seen enough to learn who he really is and they decided that actually they liked that.
    Ding, ding, ding. We have a bingo. So what we do with them? Gas and starve them as Erich wants? Or maybe, just maybe, address the underlying issues that allowed this to exist in the first place?
    Racist fucks haven’t been punished properly for their hatred for 150 years? Americas biggest mistake was being too soft on these cunts after the civil war. The cancer has been allowed to hang around.
    This is not just an American issue. We see the exact same pattern all across Europe with a white lower-to-middle class voting against their own interests, fuelled by more or less overtly racist right-wing parties. They identify themselves as disenfranchised by the "liberal political elite" and play on vague feelings of a glorious national past. These people aren't really oppressed in any way, but they have a feeling that they might be and that someone is to blame. Shady politicians and corporate donors want to exploit these feelings for personal gain and suddenly we end up with this.

    In Sweden we call these "missnöjespartier", literally "disappointment parties", and the reason we are seeing them come out in force right now is, at my best guess, a combination of two factors:
    - we are far enough removed from the wars that the people who actually remember what fascism looks like are gone
    - the explosion of media, news and social, has made it increasingly hard to get an objective account of current events

    Keckers said it best: "Mixing social media with a culturally undervalued secondary education system is one of the cruelest jokes of the past decade."
    Agreed. One might think it shouldn’t be an issue, that people should be able to see the bigger picture but IMHO it’s the little things, a strange version of death by a thousand cuts, that in the end becomes huge things.
    Its not that people feel oppressed, nor that they are actual racists, its that they see others get help or attention but when its “there turn” there is no attention or help (perceived or actual). That certain issues gets immediate attention, decision speeded through layers of government which then doesn’t happen for them (again, perceived or actual).

    To create an example, just because I saw something similar mentioned in some stupid FB post;

    Currently we have a virus causing a lot of shit, in case you have not noticed. People are suffering, losing their jobs and entire industries are on the verge of collapse and so on. As mentioned in this thread we see “protests” from the restaurant/bar industry (and others) due to the lack of proper rules and how/when the rules are communicated etc. But the main point from them is that the government has been super slow with assistance to help them survive, promises has been made but not kept (so far) due to red tape and bureaucracy. In general, all assistance has been handled terribly. No argument there.

    On the other hand, 2 years or so ago we had ~9000 afghani “refugees” (claimed to be Afghan citizens but 99% had no ID. 49% was from Iran and had lived there on average 10 years) that were fast tracked, given educational spots at Uni’s, places to live, money and so on. This was turned down at first, and rightly so actually, but was forcibly overridden by a few parties in a way that was heavily criticized and thought of as highly inappropriate. How come this cant be done as fast and “inappropriate” now, to help people and businesses that absolutely need it? Why is productive members of society who has paid a lot into a system that is supposed to have their back in a crisis not helped but a bunch of “fake refugees” gets helped, by basically overriding our laws and procedures in the process?


    And while they are two wildly different things I would agree on the surface of it, how can this be, how can we always be so slow in helping our own existing citizens? We have had a year+ on this now and we are still stumbling. We should and could do both. Easily.

    [Its worth noting that the law that was passed has caused big problems for the same people it was supposed to help, with unclear rules, decision factors and ability to follow up. People have been wrongly deported or had their temp-citizenship pulled due to how bad this was done. There is/was an official motion to have this officially investigated to make sure it wouldnt happen again and be un-fucked. It was turned down by sitting government and (one of) my favorite fucking cunts Morgan Johansson.]

    And I understand perfectly where they are coming from, not saying they are right, but I completely understand why they could think this. They see others get attention, endless media coverage and assistance while no one listens to them and their struggles (which can be very real). And that the people taking decisions don’t see/live/experience consequences of their actions – Ruling parties suddenly takes big decisions to make them look good and when the complains starts coming they say its up to the local municipals to pick it up which they don’t have resources for… And that is how you drive further division and fuel, at worst case, a large amount of population that no longer have faith in (current form of) government and politics driving them to fringe/populist parties.

    You can make this discussion not involving refugees and immigrants as well, dont get me started on Swedish Social Insurance Agency for example.
    Last edited by Lowa [NSN]; January 17 2021 at 04:18:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

  14. #16294
    Venec's Avatar
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    That's spot on here too. Political parties pick their chosen minorities to cater for (sexual, ethnic, celebrities, rich, handpicked industries) leaving the rest to fend for themselves. This, combined with rising prices, rent and stagnant pay (esp. towards lower income bracket) feeds into feeling of being disenfranchised, (esp. amongst lower middle class). Our whole country is so rotten to the core, that tackling on one issue immediately touches couple others.

    Our new left tries combining caring for "traditional left" minorities with a more hollistic, system approach toward general populace, but it's very hard to break through corporate media monopoly on newsworthy topics and decades of neolib propaganda. Media themselves fuel these idpol wars because it suits their owners. The longer we fight amongst ourselves, the longer they stay in power.
    Last edited by Venec; January 17 2021 at 03:44:17 PM.

  15. #16295
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    A lot of white middle class America is perfectly happy with fascism. 70 million people voted for Trump. They've had 4 years seeing the same outrageous shit as the rest of the world. Even if they do only watch fox news (although the viewer figures don't really bear that out) they'd still have seen enough to learn who he really is and they decided that actually they liked that.
    Ding, ding, ding. We have a bingo. So what we do with them? Gas and starve them as Erich wants? Or maybe, just maybe, address the underlying issues that allowed this to exist in the first place?
    Racist fucks haven’t been punished properly for their hatred for 150 years? Americas biggest mistake was being too soft on these cunts after the civil war. The cancer has been allowed to hang around.
    These people aren't really oppressed in any way, but they have a feeling that they might be and that someone is to blame. Shady politicians and corporate donors want to exploit these feelings for personal gain and suddenly we end up with this.
    That part is true though. Look at the Norfs, or the current plight in American rurals/exurbs. You'll see a decline in life expectancy and prospects. The decline in American life expectancy from opiates and the botched covid response will probably end up being Yeltsin-tier once the smoke clears. The way Chris Hedges put it is that there's expansion of "sacrifice zones" in America, spreading outward from the inner city to redundant exurbs and manufacturing towns.

    So what is really happening is that these middle-class, typically non-college types are finding out that they are no longer exempt from the depredations of global capital on the basis of race/nationality alone. As part of the new program at Woke Capital tm, everyone is getting ground up as burger sooner rather than later

    This is not just an American issue. We see the exact same pattern all across Europe with a white lower-to-middle class voting against their own interests
    And the reason they vote "against their own interests" is that the opposing vision provided by liberal-left isn't very compelling. The premise for the last 30 years has been that if you get a degree courtesy of our welfare programs, you too can resist imminent proletarianization and avoid being a serf for a little while longer

    "I want it all back the way that it was" -londo.avi is more compelling to these people than taking more out from your skill wallet to avoid being an uber driver

    In Sweden
    lol should've read this first. It explains so much
    Last edited by mewninn; January 17 2021 at 04:11:17 PM.

  16. #16296
    Venec's Avatar
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    Honestly best thing we can all do now, is just fuck all kinds of media, social or mainstream and start talking about these issues with our families and friends directly. And take the option to unionize whenvever there's a chance for it.

  17. #16297
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Honestly best thing we can all do now, is just fuck all kinds of media, social or mainstream and start talking about these issues with our families and friends directly. And take the option to unionize whenvever there's a chance for it.
    we'll still have FHC

  18. #16298
    Venec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Honestly best thing we can all do now, is just fuck all kinds of media, social or mainstream and start talking about these issues with our families and friends directly. And take the option to unionize whenvever there's a chance for it.
    we'll still have FHC
    High quality original content:


  19. #16299
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    "It's uneducated people on the social medias thats the problem"

    And so we come full circle and our resident commy teenagers have become the reactionary, elitest boomers they grew up so hating.

  20. #16300
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I think we'd all say the problem is the structures which create those problems and profit immensely from it.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

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