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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #19381
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    They can round up the unvaccinated into camps. Could I suggest the motto impfstoff macht frei above the gate?

    Four of our states have passed 90% fully vaccinated and to my suprise even Queensland and Western Australia will reach 90%. It makes me wonder if the balance between carrot and stick when it comes to convincing people to get vaccinated are wrong in some places. Given the economic cost you may as well pay people thousands if they get vaccinated, far cheaper in the end.

  2. #19382
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    What about the majorities right to go about our lives free of selfish, plaguebearing assholes.

    I don’t want vaccine mandates. I want exclusion mandates for the willingly unvaccinated.
    meh

  3. #19383
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Because the aim is to get people vaccinated rather than just punish. In fact the more you try to force people to do something the more they tend to resist.

    Greed works. Before the authorites clamped down on it for breaching rules around pharamcutical promotions the most effective method in Oz to get people to vaccinate early was to give people a free pizza and a free beer.

    Our most authoritarian State Government - Victoria - has also been the worst when it has come to COVID cases and deaths. That is even with Melbourne being the most locked-down city on earth.

    So offer people money or free stuff to get vaccinated.

  4. #19384

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Because the aim is to get people vaccinated rather than just punish. In fact the more you try to force people to do something the more they tend to resist.

    Greed works. Before the authorites clamped down on it for breaching rules around pharamcutical promotions the most effective method in Oz to get people to vaccinate early was to give people a free pizza and a free beer.

    Our most authoritarian State Government - Victoria - has also been the worst when it has come to COVID cases and deaths. That is even with Melbourne being the most locked-down city on earth.

    So offer people money or free stuff to get vaccinated.
    New Zealand internal borders opening next week. There are 3 areas in NZ which are trying to enforce border roadblock checkpoints.(upto 10,000 cars an hour travel north) Because their people are "vulnerable" despite millions of dollars specifically set aside to get these groups vaccinated. The numbers of non vax'd people in these regions less than 5000, around a 1000 and less than 1000 respectively. These areas are reliant on holiday tourism and they are telling people to stay away. They being not the people who run local businesses. It's all about local Maori trying to flex political power snuck into covid legislation. It's going to take 700+ police away from their normal areas around NZ to man non effective road blocks.

  5. #19385
    Timaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Because the aim is to get people vaccinated rather than just punish. In fact the more you try to force people to do something the more they tend to resist.

    Greed works. Before the authorites clamped down on it for breaching rules around pharamcutical promotions the most effective method in Oz to get people to vaccinate early was to give people a free pizza and a free beer.

    Our most authoritarian State Government - Victoria - has also been the worst when it has come to COVID cases and deaths. That is even with Melbourne being the most locked-down city on earth.

    So offer people money or free stuff to get vaccinated.
    I just wonder if rewards incentivize people not to get vaccinated or w/e when the next pandemic hits. If you wait, you can earn money or free stuff, and this might make people delay taking the vaccine, especially if the reward is sufficiently large. And if the reward is large, the majority who did get vaccinated on their turn are also going to be furious that they were not given the same reward.

    But I do agree that only punishment is very unlikely to work, persuasion works best. But it's not particularly easy to persuade someone deep in the social media conspiracy rabbit hole as they have more persuasion power and are present all the time. Blowing up the internet would help.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  6. #19386
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Not being able to participate in society in any way, is fine. I actually don't care what happens to those people. They have had all the time in the world, they have been incentivized, and now its just pure selfishness, so fuck them.

    I don't see the right to have access to the trappings of civilization enshrined in the constitution.
    meh

  7. #19387

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Because the aim is to get people vaccinated rather than just punish. In fact the more you try to force people to do something the more they tend to resist.

    Greed works. Before the authorites clamped down on it for breaching rules around pharamcutical promotions the most effective method in Oz to get people to vaccinate early was to give people a free pizza and a free beer.

    Our most authoritarian State Government - Victoria - has also been the worst when it has come to COVID cases and deaths. That is even with Melbourne being the most locked-down city on earth.

    So offer people money or free stuff to get vaccinated.
    Financial motivations work both ways. If a willingly unvaccinated person has an increased Medicare surcharge to pay for the additional burden of care that the unvaccincated create for the medical system, how is that not an equal incentive to a vaccinated person receiving a reduced medicare surcharge for the same?

  8. #19388

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post


    I just wonder if rewards incentivize people not to get vaccinated or w/e when the next pandemic hits. If you wait, you can earn money or free stuff, and this might make people delay taking the vaccine, especially if the reward is sufficiently large. And if the reward is large, the majority who did get vaccinated on their turn are also going to be furious that they were not given the same reward.
    This is a simple consumer problem. People are terrible at 'delayed gratification'. So on paper you make a valid point but in reality this will be the case for a very very small amount of people and that group will be bigger if the incentive is higher of course. Its is a easy issue you can solve with min/max and game theory.

    People were swayed to get a vaccine by a free scratch card or free beer.

    How ever you swing it you get more people with honey than with vinegar.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  9. #19389

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    They can round up the unvaccinated into camps. Could I suggest the motto impfstoff macht frei above the gate?

    Four of our states have passed 90% fully vaccinated and to my suprise even Queensland and Western Australia will reach 90%. It makes me wonder if the balance between carrot and stick when it comes to convincing people to get vaccinated are wrong in some places. Given the economic cost you may as well pay people thousands if they get vaccinated, far cheaper in the end.
    And then what happens the next time there's a new vaccine for something? Anyone with three braincells will refuse to take it until the government offers them the big bucks.

  10. #19390

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Greed works.
    Yes, greed works.

    But not in a way mankind should want it to work, so we shouldn't continue to lean on methods that we know have a negative effect in the long run. It enforces bad behavior. Greed has brought us to the point were we literally burn down our planet.

  11. #19391

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    Anyone that loses their job because of a mandate will hate Liberal Democracy for the rest of their lives. And there will be a considerable knock-on effect with their wives, kids and friends... Do you really want to create an even larger pool of recruits for the next fascist adjacent politician to scoop up?

    If it was a sterilizing vaccine and there was a real chance of eliminating Covid forever then it might well be worth it. Although it really doesn't seem as though they have tried very hard to be persuasive.

    A non-sterilizing vaccine that lets the vaccinated both catch and spread the disease? That's going to probably need multiple boosters? When the government wont even provide decent masks, talk about ventilation, air purification, contact tracing, free tests, free care if you get sick from the vaccine? When the vaccines may well be much less effective against Omicron?

    There's a moral and practical argument for easing the burden on the health care workers that have been getting screwed but I don't hear Washington making it.

    I'm double vaccinated and up for a booster and I'm unmotivated to get boosted against regular covid when it's been outcompeted to death and they haven't bothered to update the vaccines for the new variants. Probably will do it anyway, then again after Christmas(?) Had to stand in a fucking too closely packed indoor queue for the best part of an hour when I took my elderly mother to be boosted. It's like nothing has been learned from two years of failure.

    Actually, I'm being slightly unfair, the initial vaccination centers were an order of magnitude more competent than the booster set up so we've actually regressed significantly.

  12. #19392

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Anyone that loses their job because of a mandate will hate Liberal Democracy for the rest of their lives. And there will be a considerable knock-on effect with their wives, kids and friends... Do you really want to create an even larger pool of recruits for the next fascist adjacent politician to scoop up?
    That's a dangerous game you're playing there.

    Turn the argument around: the majority of people practiced social distancing, managed their vaccination appointments, stayed away from any social activities as much as possible for the better part of the last two years are forced to live in semi-lockdown forever, because of a lunatic minority who refuses to become vaccinated and authorities react by :shrug: ... "we need to respect their personal decisions" and "pretty please get your shot". How long do you think that majority is willing to keep up with this shit before also turning against democracy? The form of government, where the majority is supposed to decide the outcome.

    I don't know about other places, but in Germany the sane, typically silent vaccinated majority has become more and more frustrated, loud(er) and (verbally) aggressive over the past few month. As of now, RL violence was restricted to those anti-vaxxers. I'm afraid that won't stay that way.

  13. #19393
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Just let the plague rats breed new variants guys, don't be mean to them.

  14. #19394
    Joshua Foiritain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Anyone that loses their job because of a mandate will hate Liberal Democracy for the rest of their lives.
    Seems like the best option is to build camps and make their lives short then.



  15. #19395
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...cks-fat-tissue

    Coronavirus attacks fat tissue, US is screwed.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  16. #19396
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I remember there being a few suggestions this could be the case early in the pandemic. It'll be interesting to see how it comes through peer review and any other studies that come from similar data sets.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  17. #19397
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    This 1 quick and easy method for losing weight FAST! Doctors hate it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Also that didn't sound like abloo bloo to me, PM me and we can agree on a meeting spot and settle this with queensberry rules, that's a serious offer btw. I've been a member of this community since 2005 and i've never met a more toxic individual.

  18. #19398
    August's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Anyone that loses their job because of a mandate will hate Liberal Democracy for the rest of their lives. And there will be a considerable knock-on effect with their wives, kids and friends... Do you really want to create an even larger pool of recruits for the next fascist adjacent politician to scoop up?
    That's a dangerous game you're playing there.

    Turn the argument around: the majority of people practiced social distancing, managed their vaccination appointments, stayed away from any social activities as much as possible for the better part of the last two years are forced to live in semi-lockdown forever, because of a lunatic minority who refuses to become vaccinated and authorities react by :shrug: ... "we need to respect their personal decisions" and "pretty please get your shot". How long do you think that majority is willing to keep up with this shit before also turning against democracy? The form of government, where the majority is supposed to decide the outcome.

    I don't know about other places, but in Germany the sane, typically silent vaccinated majority has become more and more frustrated, loud(er) and (verbally) aggressive over the past few month. As of now, RL violence was restricted to those anti-vaxxers. I'm afraid that won't stay that way.
    In the US, Biden is more unpopular at this stage in his presidency than any other president in the last 40 years (except for Trump, of course). Moreover, indicators are that the Republitards are going to gain control of both the house and the senate in the next election cycle. So whatever backlash you are talking about from the vaccinated hasn't materialized over here.

  19. #19399
    Ruri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Anyone that loses their job because of a mandate will hate Liberal Democracy for the rest of their lives. And there will be a considerable knock-on effect with their wives, kids and friends... Do you really want to create an even larger pool of recruits for the next fascist adjacent politician to scoop up?
    That's a dangerous game you're playing there.

    Turn the argument around: the majority of people practiced social distancing, managed their vaccination appointments, stayed away from any social activities as much as possible for the better part of the last two years are forced to live in semi-lockdown forever, because of a lunatic minority who refuses to become vaccinated and authorities react by :shrug: ... "we need to respect their personal decisions" and "pretty please get your shot". How long do you think that majority is willing to keep up with this shit before also turning against democracy? The form of government, where the majority is supposed to decide the outcome.

    I don't know about other places, but in Germany the sane, typically silent vaccinated majority has become more and more frustrated, loud(er) and (verbally) aggressive over the past few month. As of now, RL violence was restricted to those anti-vaxxers. I'm afraid that won't stay that way.
    In the US, Biden is more unpopular at this stage in his presidency than any other president in the last 40 years (except for Trump, of course). Moreover, indicators are that the Republitards are going to gain control of both the house and the senate in the next election cycle. So whatever backlash you are talking about from the vaccinated hasn't materialized over here.
    Presidential popularity also correlates very strongly with gas prices and inflation, which Trump actually managed to beat by being a moral grotesquerie incapable of acting except to benefit himself in whatever minute he happened to be conscious. Prices are also largely out of the President's hands, as is the historic cycle of the party in the White House losing ground in the midterms due to The American Voter being largely disengaged in understanding politics.

    The pattern is almost depressingly predictable, even if it's not technically impossible to change. It would require a far more energized Democratic leadership, which, Chuck and Nancy just aren't. Everyone wants to run on Build Back Better, and Joe Manchin being paid by his donors to hold it up almost entirely by himself does not penetrate the national consciousness, and is not a great argument for rewarding Dems purely from the perspective of someone who pays no attention to what is actually going on until the minute before they walk into the voting booth.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
    Do you even lift? Do you even post.

  20. #19400
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Just let the plague rats breed new variants guys, don't be mean to them.
    That's a weird way to talk about Africa and people in poor countries worldwide but whatever floats your boat mate.

    Currently designated Variants of Concern (VOCs)+:

    WHO label Pango
    lineage
    GISAID clade Nextstrain clade Additional amino acid changes monitored° Earliest documented
    samples
    Date of designation
    Alpha
    B.1.1.7 GRY 20I (V1) +S:484K
    +S:452R
    United Kingdom,
    Sep-2020
    18-Dec-2020
    Beta B.1.351
    GH/501Y.V2 20H (V2) +S:L18F South Africa,
    May-2020
    18-Dec-2020
    Gamma P.1
    GR/501Y.V3 20J (V3) +S:681H Brazil,
    Nov-2020
    11-Jan-2021
    Delta B.1.617.2 G/478K.V1 21A, 21I, 21J +S:417N
    +S:484K
    India,
    Oct-2020
    VOI: 4-Apr-2021
    VOC: 11-May-2021
    Omicron* B.1.1.529 GR/484A 21K - Multiple countries, Nov-2021 VUM: 24-Nov-2021
    VOC: 26-Nov-2021

    I'll show myself off back to the COVID thread now.
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; December 11 2021 at 09:18:22 PM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

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