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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #14361
    Keckers's Avatar
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    A lot of crying on reddit by white bois complaining about Trump not being accepted as legitimate and not having a fair chance to be president lmao
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  2. #14362
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Always a fan of double standards in US politics and crying when the other side does it. Here's a reminder what type of discourse we're talking about:

    Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances'
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...under-n1238156

    Republicans Back Trump’s Refusal to Concede, Declining to Recognize Biden
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/u...-election.html

    Yep, that looks like a healthy democratic process right there.

    And to be perfectly honest, tell me what would American streets look like at this moment if Trump won (in preliminary results)
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; November 10 2020 at 10:05:04 AM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  3. #14363
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    When do you predict full fighting will break out?
    Marlona's evidence of Mexicans commiting voter fraud will be the straw.
    Helter viva la Skelter!

    MI8m8

  4. #14364

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    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    And it looks like more republicans are tightening ranks and siding with Donald about "fraud" thing, then there are calling him to concede. I fear again that our celebration of Biden's victory, followed by usual liberal blame games and circular firing squads whether they win or lose were all premature.

    Democrat voters have, by choosing to vote by mail out of fear of COVID and militia violence, lost the election. For every 10 invalidated mail votes, Trump loses only 2 or 3. You need to invalidate only couple dozen thousand votes in several states to turn the election in Trump's favor.

    Mitch McConnell has several paths and none are good for the Democrats:
    - Demand Biden to nominate a "in practice Republican" cabinet and intentionally have Dems lose two runoffs in Georgia, and in return GOP magnanimously forces Trump to stop escalating the legal fight -> Republicans win
    - Else GOP stands by Trump's legal campaign, it eventually gets to SCOTUS and there is a blanked declaration turning tens and tens of thousands of mail votes invalid, giving Trump the victory -> Republicans win
    - If Democrats accept this, then the party will self destructs over such humiliation and capitulation -> Republicans win
    - If Democrats protest they can finally use COVID as an excuse to declare martial law and put armed police and loyal national guard to the streets and get all Antifa terrorists sent to Gitmo -> Republicans win
    - If Democrats somehow organize and really fight, well you can always hope on GOP voter base being more armed and more agresive and US armed forces staying out of it -> Republicans win

    This is just a fever dream. The election is over. Biden is the next president.

    This whole 'fraud' meme isn't about changing the result of this election. It's about building anger to help them win the next one.

    The defining characteristic of Trumpism is resentment. The Trump base are angry that their lives are not as good as some, partly imagined, golden age. Trump was able to target that resentment on China, liberal elites, the media and Marxist Democrats. The Trump administration and the Republican leadership are hardly going to stand up to them now. They'll just keep pouring the baseless conspiracy theories. It is bad for the US and for rule of law, but it is bad for the dems in the short run and easier for the GOP.

  5. #14365
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Biden is president to the exact extent that he will be able to enforce his presidency on January 20th.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  6. #14366
    Lowa [NSN]'s Avatar
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    I would never really recommend it but swing by /r/conservative and watch the absolute mind bending meltdown over Fox News first agreeing on Biden as pres and then to top if off cuts the live feed from last nights press conf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

  7. #14367
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    god i'm so happy I dont peruse twitter, reddit or 4chan. I use FHC as the filter for that shit.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  8. #14368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    god i'm so happy I dont peruse twitter, reddit or 4chan. I use FHC as the filter for that shit.
    This.

  9. #14369
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    god i'm so happy I dont peruse twitter, reddit or 4chan. I use FHC as the filter for that shit.
    After getting into reddit over the last month I’ve started to realise how utterly crap it is.

  10. #14370
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Reddit is an absolute cesspool of a platform (especially for politics) but it provides good insight into groupthink among various factions.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  11. #14371
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Reddit is an absolute cesspool of a platform (especially for politics) but it provides good insight into groupthink among various factions.
    Yeh that I’ve noticed, it is good for assessing what people may think but any sort of reasoned debate (in particular on ukpol) doesn’t seem to happen.

  12. #14372
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Reddit isn't a platform for debate, the entire premise and structure of it makes that impossible.

    I find it most interesting to see where the gaps in knowledge are for specific groups. In UKpol it's pretty interesting to see there's an understanding that financial services are a large segment of the economy but no real knowledge of what that actually means in terms of how the financial services sector functions or makes money.

    If you look at the right leaning american subreddits you see there is a complete ignorance of how social issues manifest as certain behaviours or how people perceive justice.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  13. #14373
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    I would never really recommend it but swing by /r/conservative and watch the absolute mind bending meltdown over Fox News first agreeing on Biden as pres and then to top if off cuts the live feed from last nights press conf.
    it's a whole fucking pack of r/selfawarewolves aint it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  14. #14374
    Liare's Avatar
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    so, we're far enough out from the election and things have consolidated enough for it to be theorycrafting time.

    'murica, you done gone goofed, badly. Biden won, but nowhere near with the margin required to constitute a rejection of "Trumpism" and Trump is, predictably, running a "the election was stolen from me!" narrative, this was to be expected and at first it looked like things might work out after all, Fox and company rallied behind "Biden won" and tone-setting republicans like Grayham and McConnell indicated that they where not going to support Donnie's bid for having the election result changed with zero evidence.

    and then, the predictable thing happened and the republican party are now rallying with Trump arguing the election result is illegitimate. Trump is currently having Barr manufacture evidence of electoral fraud and he's gotten rid of the obstinate defence secretary that was pivotal to preventing the usage of army units in DC this summer and replaced him with one of the "Counter-terrorism" ghouls, you know the ones, drone-striking weddings and so forth. and now, the pressure cooker is on, Trump is going to keep trumpeting that the election was rigged against him, it's going to keep gaining resonance, i would not be surprised to see Fox News jump on the opportunity to reverse their line this week. Biden is going to keep making the political equivalent of rolling eyes and resentment is going to build on both sides at a phase we've never really seen before. we're going to see a lot more defections like this one in the coming weeks as well, i would not be surprised to see a lot of the brass of the armed forces noping the fuck out soon. at some point, the lid is going to pop off and there is going to be mass protests, probably riots too, Trump is going to do what he by all accounts tried last summer and invoke the insurrection act. what happens then ? it's pretty much anybody's guess, worst case for the continued existence of the US is the large chunks of the army goes "no, u!" though that would be a best-case for people as a whole.

    now, it would be easy to assume that the republican party are onboard to appease Trump's base (that's basically the whole party now, look at his approval ratings) because not backing el presidente is a losing proposition electorally per the internal polls, but the thing is that part base is hooked on fascism now, it's the political equivalent of cocaine and they're not going to accept losing. this is some real von papen scenes in action, thinking they can tame the tiger they're riding while donnie is holding out a steak in front of it. so they have the unpalatable choice of backing Donald's decent towards full blown fascism or accepting political irrelevance. they're going to do the former and hope not to get stuffed in the proverbial sausage machine. the problem with getting off the tiger is that it's going to eat your face. Biden is going to, predictably, behave as if everything is more or less normal and complain about norms, he and the democratic party has basically burned what legitimacy they have to do anything else the last 18 months, but Trump is not going to be playing by the rules, there is no way to win for him if he does, so he's going to cheat and Biden is going to do jack shit about it until it's way too late.

    the stochastic terrorists on the right wing are going to get restless, we've seen attempts already and it's going to escalate now. while on the other side BLM/BLM adjecent groups have been rolling their eyes at biden for months and are going to keep doing their own thing.

    the forecast isn't on full-blown civil war yet, there's a long way down the drain to go for that, and still opportunities to step back from the threshold aplenty. but the trajectory is definitely there to make it happen despite the fact none of the actors involved really wanting it to.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  15. #14375
    Venec's Avatar
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  16. #14376
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    there's a frighteningly large contingent of americans who unironically believed this.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  17. #14377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    so, we're far enough out from the election and things have consolidated enough for it to be theorycrafting time.

    'murica, you done gone goofed, badly. Biden won, but nowhere near with the margin required to constitute a rejection of "Trumpism" and Trump is, predictably, running a "the election was stolen from me!" narrative, this was to be expected and at first it looked like things might work out after all, Fox and company rallied behind "Biden won" and tone-setting republicans like Grayham and McConnell indicated that they where not going to support Donnie's bid for having the election result changed with zero evidence.

    and then, the predictable thing happened and the republican party are now rallying with Trump arguing the election result is illegitimate. Trump is currently having Barr manufacture evidence of electoral fraud and he's gotten rid of the obstinate defence secretary that was pivotal to preventing the usage of army units in DC this summer and replaced him with one of the "Counter-terrorism" ghouls, you know the ones, drone-striking weddings and so forth. and now, the pressure cooker is on, Trump is going to keep trumpeting that the election was rigged against him, it's going to keep gaining resonance, i would not be surprised to see Fox News jump on the opportunity to reverse their line this week. Biden is going to keep making the political equivalent of rolling eyes and resentment is going to build on both sides at a phase we've never really seen before. we're going to see a lot more defections like this one in the coming weeks as well, i would not be surprised to see a lot of the brass of the armed forces noping the fuck out soon. at some point, the lid is going to pop off and there is going to be mass protests, probably riots too, Trump is going to do what he by all accounts tried last summer and invoke the insurrection act. what happens then ? it's pretty much anybody's guess, worst case for the continued existence of the US is the large chunks of the army goes "no, u!" though that would be a best-case for people as a whole.

    now, it would be easy to assume that the republican party are onboard to appease Trump's base (that's basically the whole party now, look at his approval ratings) because not backing el presidente is a losing proposition electorally per the internal polls, but the thing is that part base is hooked on fascism now, it's the political equivalent of cocaine and they're not going to accept losing. this is some real von papen scenes in action, thinking they can tame the tiger they're riding while donnie is holding out a steak in front of it. so they have the unpalatable choice of backing Donald's decent towards full blown fascism or accepting political irrelevance. they're going to do the former and hope not to get stuffed in the proverbial sausage machine. the problem with getting off the tiger is that it's going to eat your face. Biden is going to, predictably, behave as if everything is more or less normal and complain about norms, he and the democratic party has basically burned what legitimacy they have to do anything else the last 18 months, but Trump is not going to be playing by the rules, there is no way to win for him if he does, so he's going to cheat and Biden is going to do jack shit about it until it's way too late.

    the stochastic terrorists on the right wing are going to get restless, we've seen attempts already and it's going to escalate now. while on the other side BLM/BLM adjecent groups have been rolling their eyes at biden for months and are going to keep doing their own thing.

    the forecast isn't on full-blown civil war yet, there's a long way down the drain to go for that, and still opportunities to step back from the threshold aplenty. but the trajectory is definitely there to make it happen despite the fact none of the actors involved really wanting it to.
    I generally respect your perspective, but I think you're going off the deep end here.

    Antifa and fascists clearly have a symbiotic relationship. Overstating the fascist threat, makes people sympathetic to Antifa feel more important.

  18. #14378
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Much in the same way that massive financial crashes are overstated by everyone impoverished by them just so marxists can say 'I told you so' every decade.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  19. #14379
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    so, we're far enough out from the election and things have consolidated enough for it to be theorycrafting time.

    'murica, you done gone goofed, badly. Biden won, but nowhere near with the margin required to constitute a rejection of "Trumpism" and Trump is, predictably, running a "the election was stolen from me!" narrative, this was to be expected and at first it looked like things might work out after all, Fox and company rallied behind "Biden won" and tone-setting republicans like Grayham and McConnell indicated that they where not going to support Donnie's bid for having the election result changed with zero evidence.

    and then, the predictable thing happened and the republican party are now rallying with Trump arguing the election result is illegitimate. Trump is currently having Barr manufacture evidence of electoral fraud and he's gotten rid of the obstinate defence secretary that was pivotal to preventing the usage of army units in DC this summer and replaced him with one of the "Counter-terrorism" ghouls, you know the ones, drone-striking weddings and so forth. and now, the pressure cooker is on, Trump is going to keep trumpeting that the election was rigged against him, it's going to keep gaining resonance, i would not be surprised to see Fox News jump on the opportunity to reverse their line this week. Biden is going to keep making the political equivalent of rolling eyes and resentment is going to build on both sides at a phase we've never really seen before. we're going to see a lot more defections like this one in the coming weeks as well, i would not be surprised to see a lot of the brass of the armed forces noping the fuck out soon. at some point, the lid is going to pop off and there is going to be mass protests, probably riots too, Trump is going to do what he by all accounts tried last summer and invoke the insurrection act. what happens then ? it's pretty much anybody's guess, worst case for the continued existence of the US is the large chunks of the army goes "no, u!" though that would be a best-case for people as a whole.

    now, it would be easy to assume that the republican party are onboard to appease Trump's base (that's basically the whole party now, look at his approval ratings) because not backing el presidente is a losing proposition electorally per the internal polls, but the thing is that part base is hooked on fascism now, it's the political equivalent of cocaine and they're not going to accept losing. this is some real von papen scenes in action, thinking they can tame the tiger they're riding while donnie is holding out a steak in front of it. so they have the unpalatable choice of backing Donald's decent towards full blown fascism or accepting political irrelevance. they're going to do the former and hope not to get stuffed in the proverbial sausage machine. the problem with getting off the tiger is that it's going to eat your face. Biden is going to, predictably, behave as if everything is more or less normal and complain about norms, he and the democratic party has basically burned what legitimacy they have to do anything else the last 18 months, but Trump is not going to be playing by the rules, there is no way to win for him if he does, so he's going to cheat and Biden is going to do jack shit about it until it's way too late.

    the stochastic terrorists on the right wing are going to get restless, we've seen attempts already and it's going to escalate now. while on the other side BLM/BLM adjecent groups have been rolling their eyes at biden for months and are going to keep doing their own thing.

    the forecast isn't on full-blown civil war yet, there's a long way down the drain to go for that, and still opportunities to step back from the threshold aplenty. but the trajectory is definitely there to make it happen despite the fact none of the actors involved really wanting it to.
    I generally respect your perspective, but I think you're going off the deep end here.

    Antifa and fascists clearly have a symbiotic relationship. Overstating the fascist threat, makes people sympathetic to Antifa feel more important.
    you're not really making a convincing argument here. Trump is very much using the methodologies associated with fascism, it's been a low-key element of American society since it's inception and he's been very good at harnessing that aspect of it. is he a mussolini/franco type ? of course not, but at some point the appearance becomes reality. this ongoing rejection of the election result, promising definite proof just around the corner and egging things on is straight out of the usual playbook.

    Qanon is likewise, the big lie gone crowd-sourced and viral, if a few thousand people protesting police violence is enough to tip so many conservatives over into straight up lala land then the problem isn't the people protesting, they're certainly not benefiting from it. the ongoing antifascist/BLM protesting is going to continue at its gradually ebbing phase, well until the cops do another extrajudicial murder and fans the flames anyway. it would not be unfair to say it's going to be a sideshow for the next couple of months. the radical left, by large, doesn't give a single solitary shit about biden beyond the fact he's slightly less awful than Trump.

    im not seeing the symbiotic relationship you're seeing here, antifascist organizing is local and reactive, they're not some nationwide organisation that has professional protesters on call that are shuffled around the country, the vast majority of them just want the cops to stop killing people and the fascist-leaning republicans to get the fuck out of their communities.
    Last edited by Liare; November 10 2020 at 02:13:06 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  20. #14380
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Biden is president to the exact extent that he will be able to enforce his presidency on January 20th.
    Biden does't have to enforce shit. We'll get the SS to remove any trespassers in the WH on Jan 20th, and that will be that.

    I hope they resist so there is a public night-sticking, or perhaps a justified officer involved shooting.
    meh

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