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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #6901
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's the american obsession with digital voting?
    too fat to go to the polling station i guess
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  2. #6902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's the american obsession with digital voting?
    too fat to go to the polling station i guess
    They still go to polling stations. But instead of checking off who you vote for on a paper card you use a touchscreen system.

    But the problem is, in many states these systems aren't secure. They don't return a paper receipt of your vote.
    And in many cases, you cast your vote on candidate A but it got registered on B.
    Without a receipt, it is hard to prove faults. Which in the end leaves the extremely vulnerable to hacking.
    The Epic Store is amazing, I've been able to save so much money by not buying their games.

  3. #6903
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    I think Estonia is the only country where you can vote from home.
    But they are way ahead of all other countries when it comes to IT.
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  4. #6904
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's the american obsession with digital voting?
    too fat to go to the polling station i guess
    They still go to polling stations. But instead of checking off who you vote for on a paper card you use a touchscreen system.

    But the problem is, in many states these systems aren't secure. They don't return a paper receipt of your vote.
    And in many cases, you cast your vote on candidate A but it got registered on B.
    Without a receipt, it is hard to prove faults. Which in the end leaves the extremely vulnerable to hacking.
    Sorry this is bullshit, the systems are poorly designed and incredibly lazy, probably on purpose.

    In the Netherlands there is a system called digiID which you use to access online government stuff. It requires at least three different levels of authentication before you can even get to your mailbox.

    Of course, online voting was abandoned in 2007 here too though. But there is literally no reason it can't be used for online voting except for technophobe boomers.

    Do they want us to go back to using paper sheets to record stock trades too? How is digital security good enough to move trillions of dollars every day but not good enough to record a simple YES or NO?

  5. #6905
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    Try reading what I wrote one more time.
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  6. #6906
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Try reading what I wrote one more time.
    Yeah, I get what you are saying. I am saying the systems are poorly designed and probably on purpose. Digital security is good enough for banks and keeps trillions of dollars secure, but somehow can't be extended to enfranchise millions of people. Really makes you think.

    I mean imagine if some wall street guy was buying some options and the system "accidentally" did the opposite of what he wanted. That shit would be fixed within the same day.
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; February 4 2020 at 12:36:11 PM.

  7. #6907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Of course, online voting was abandoned in 2007 here too though. But there is literally no reason it can't be used for online voting except for technophobe boomers.
    Nothing digital is secure. I don't think I know anyone working in tech who thinks electronic voting is better than using a pencil and paper, the risk isn't worth it.

    It works for banks because money isn't real anyway.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  8. #6908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Of course, online voting was abandoned in 2007 here too though. But there is literally no reason it can't be used for online voting except for technophobe boomers.
    Nothing digital is secure. I don't think I know anyone working in tech who thinks electronic voting is better than using a pencil and paper, the risk isn't worth it.

    It works for banks because money isn't real anyway.
    This makes no sense, but alright. Let's just accelerate this to its logical endpoint where only corporate boardmembers with a federal charter are allowed to sit on the electoral college and the popular vote is no longer used.

  9. #6909
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    It's also about the usecase. The really secure parts of banking don't need to be end user facing on the open web.

    Finally, it's about comparative security. Any digital system needs to be demonstrably better than current voting systems at reliably returning the overall result people voted for. Generally this hasn't been the case. Most modern physical voting systems are fault tolerant and successful attacks don't scale (ie it's relatively easy to rig a handful of votes or lose a couple of boxes of votes, but basically impossible to reliably rig the whole election without it being obvious... and provided you don't have a totally corrupted system this should be fine*) whereas an undetected vulnerability in a digital system scales and is therefore more likely to be able to reliably rig an election.

    * America struggles to meet this requirment.

  10. #6910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Of course, online voting was abandoned in 2007 here too though. But there is literally no reason it can't be used for online voting except for technophobe boomers.
    Nothing digital is secure. I don't think I know anyone working in tech who thinks electronic voting is better than using a pencil and paper, the risk isn't worth it.

    It works for banks because money isn't real anyway.
    This makes no sense, but alright. Let's just accelerate this to its logical endpoint where only corporate boardmembers with a federal charter are allowed to sit on the electoral college and the popular vote is no longer used.
    Just as the framers intended.

  11. #6911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Try reading what I wrote one more time.
    Yeah, I get what you are saying. I am saying the systems are poorly designed and probably on purpose. Digital security is good enough for banks and keeps trillions of dollars secure, but somehow can't be extended to enfranchise millions of people. Really makes you think.

    I mean imagine if some wall street guy was buying some options and the system "accidentally" did the opposite of what he wanted. That shit would be fixed within the same day.
    Same but not the same.

    If a bank or stock exchange gets hacked, it will have direct financial impact on them. And loss of reputation.
    They again got shareholders to answer too.
    While not significant, it is still enough for them prioritize security.

    The polling stations are used every 2-4 years.
    When done they get stowed away, how do we know they are kept updated?
    Many of these polling systems are 10+ years out, running a operating system that is no longer supported.
    It runs on a minimum effort, minimum budget by some low level bureaucrats that can't be held responsible.
    The Epic Store is amazing, I've been able to save so much money by not buying their games.

  12. #6912
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    The Australian Electoral Commission has looked in detail at the issue of electronic voting.

    https://www.aec.gov.au/voting/report.htm - broad summary.

    There is also a detailed report to Parliament with lots of submissions from experts on both sides.

    https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...Interim_Report

    Basically the AEC views the costs and the risks of electronic voting to outweigh the benefits atm given the Australian compulsory voting system.

  13. #6913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    is this the first time the CIA is outright running their own presidential candidate ? because that's some operation condor level bullshit right there.
    It has worked well in both South and Central America, so expanding North was a logical next step to increase market penetration.

  14. #6914
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    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"

  15. #6915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"
    You'd be surprised how archaic government is. Still have people requesting DVDs from me instead of just emailing a video.

  16. #6916
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"
    The report was triggered by a particular event - the loss of a ballot box containing around 1,000 votes in a close election that forced the invalidation of the result and a revote being held.

    The AEC responds to Parliament as it is governed by legislation, but otherwise is an independent statutory body.

    The technology has moved on but the issues identified remain current.

  17. #6917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"
    You'd be surprised how archaic government is. Still have people requesting DVDs from me instead of just emailing a video.
    I really wouldn't.

    There's a lot more up to date research that's pertinent was my point.

    https://www.wired.com/story/election-security-2020/

    https://www.schneier.com/news/archiv...ier_on_ho.html

    Both from the last year.

  18. #6918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"
    The report was triggered by a particular event - the loss of a ballot box containing around 1,000 votes in a close election that forced the invalidation of the result and a revote being held.

    The AEC responds to Parliament as it is governed by legislation, but otherwise is an independent statutory body.

    The technology has moved on but the issues identified remain current.
    You missed the bit where I referenced the incident in question in my previous post.

  19. #6919
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"
    The report was triggered by a particular event - the loss of a ballot box containing around 1,000 votes in a close election that forced the invalidation of the result and a revote being held.

    The AEC responds to Parliament as it is governed by legislation, but otherwise is an independent statutory body.

    The technology has moved on but the issues identified remain current.
    You missed the bit where I referenced the incident in question in my previous post.
    I assumed that many readers wouldn't follow the links so I was giving context so others could understand what we were talking about.

  20. #6920
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Wow that AEC report is old. "Cost of sending CD-ROMs"
    The report was triggered by a particular event - the loss of a ballot box containing around 1,000 votes in a close election that forced the invalidation of the result and a revote being held.

    The AEC responds to Parliament as it is governed by legislation, but otherwise is an independent statutory body.

    The technology has moved on but the issues identified remain current.
    You missed the bit where I referenced the incident in question in my previous post.
    I assumed that many readers wouldn't follow the links so I was giving context so others could understand what we were talking about.
    Fair. TBH I was kinda surprised that they haven't been forced to update the advice by someone asking the question again. It feels like something that keeps coming up.

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