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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #2141
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1U61D9

    Trump drops census citizenship question, vows to get data from government

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump retreated on Thursday from adding a contentious question on citizenship to the 2020 census, but insisted he was not giving up his fight to count how many non-citizens are in the country and ordered government agencies to mine their databases.
    Totally not retreating.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  2. #2142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1U61D9

    Trump drops census citizenship question, vows to get data from government

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump retreated on Thursday from adding a contentious question on citizenship to the 2020 census, but insisted he was not giving up his fight to count how many non-citizens are in the country and ordered government agencies to mine their databases.
    Totally not retreating.
    Not before he confirmed to the supreme court that he and his administration is totally willing to lie to their faces. I suspect chief Justice Roberts won't give him any future fast tracking before the supreme court.

  3. #2143
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1U61D9

    Trump drops census citizenship question, vows to get data from government

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump retreated on Thursday from adding a contentious question on citizenship to the 2020 census, but insisted he was not giving up his fight to count how many non-citizens are in the country and ordered government agencies to mine their databases.
    Totally not retreating.
    Not before he confirmed to the supreme court that he and his administration is totally willing to lie to their faces. I suspect chief Justice Roberts won't give him any future fast tracking before the supreme court.
    You don't know. Roberts went the other way on in the case before this one. I guess it depends who does it. If it's the president, it's OK, if it isn't, then it's not OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  4. #2144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1U61D9

    Trump drops census citizenship question, vows to get data from government

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump retreated on Thursday from adding a contentious question on citizenship to the 2020 census, but insisted he was not giving up his fight to count how many non-citizens are in the country and ordered government agencies to mine their databases.
    Totally not retreating.
    Not before he confirmed to the supreme court that he and his administration is totally willing to lie to their faces. I suspect chief Justice Roberts won't give him any future fast tracking before the supreme court.
    You don't know. Roberts went the other way on in the case before this one. I guess it depends who does it. If it's the president, it's OK, if it isn't, then it's not OK.
    I wasn't alluding to how he would vote on any particular matter. The cencus case was fast tracked to appear before the supreme court before June 30:th as that was the date the government had to start getting the cencus out. But after the supreme court had made their decision all of a sudden that date wasn't so important anymore with Trump wanting to, somewhat paraphrased, "explore other venues".

    So either you have DOJ lawyers lying straight to the supreme courts faces or you have an unwillingness to accept their decisions. Neither option is endearing and it will have consequences. It's basically Trump shooting himself in the foot once more for no reason whatsoever. Why piss off people when you don't have to? It's mind boggingly stupid.

  5. #2145

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    Talking about potentional Dem candidates: what's Al Gore up to these days? Would he do better than Biden?

    I agree with the folks here stating that Biden is only there (and up in the polls) because of name recognition, not because of merits. But at the same time I somehwat understand the Dems' wish to put a recognizable name on the list - recognizable at least in their perception. IMHO Gore would in theory fit that bill for the Dems, while (hopefully) at the same time would be able to put forward a political program that would change things around.

  6. #2146
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Talking about potentional Dem candidates: what's Al Gore up to these days? Would he do better than Biden?

    I agree with the folks here stating that Biden is only there (and up in the polls) because of name recognition, not because of merits. But at the same time I somehwat understand the Dems' wish to put a recognizable name on the list - recognizable at least in their perception. IMHO Gore would in theory fit that bill for the Dems, while (hopefully) at the same time would be able to put forward a political program that would change things around.
    Why not run Howard Dean while you're at it?

    Regarding the deficit: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1U715D
    As U.S. debt, deficits mount, presidential candidates sweep them under the rug

    The reality is that Democrats are reluctant to make a campaign issue out of one of America’s most vexing problems — the ballooning annual budget deficits and overall debt under President Donald Trump.

    That’s because some of their most popular policies going into the 2020 election would present significant budget challenges of their own, including expanding Medicare health coverage and offering government help to cut college costs and reduce student debt.

    While Democrats insist they have workable plans that will cover the costs of these proposals, Republicans counter that their tax-the-rich solutions are not realistic.

    On their side of the political divide, Republicans are equally interested in keeping mum on the subject, having happily backed Trump’s massive tax cuts and a surge in military spending - two key drivers of the deficit blow-out - after championing fiscal conservatism for years.

    By supporting Trump, many Republican lawmakers have essentially abandoned an already fading commitment to balanced budgets and cutting the national debt.

    “I don’t think in this election cycle there seems to be much of an interest in addressing the issue,” lamented Senator Rob Portman, a former White House budget director.

    Portman, a Republican, is seen as a hawk on government spending, although he was also a strong defender of the 2017 tax-cut law that will drive up the national debt by at least $1 trillion over 10 years.
    Good job surrendering your moral authority there, Mr. Portman.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  7. #2147
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Without reducing military budget it would be hard to make up the cost of expanded healthcare both by freeing up budget for healthcare and cutting the ridiculous costs of the medical industry (with ridiculous profit margins above 25% and target goals in a lot of companies are 40%, and these fuckers aren't even providing service; they're consultants and middlemen).. A government monopsony would be nice but the military is the biggest welfare program we have at the moment - the benefits for military vets are great, 9shitty) VA coverage for life and some kind of pension will set you up after discharged, and that's the minimums.

    I don't like the military service guarantees citizenship approach we have, and I'd rather see a smaller more professional/specialized military and some more efficient budgeting, logistics, the whole damn military is a well-run mess. That would make room for national healthcare for citizens. Neither party is interested in reducing military spending, Republicans especially, but it's that or keep sweeping the growing costs under the table.

  8. #2148
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Without reducing military budget it would be hard to make up the cost of expanded healthcare. A government monopsony would be nice but the military is the biggest welfare program we have at the moment - the benefits for military vets are great, 9shitty) VA coverage for life and some kind of pension will set you up after discharged, and that's the minimums.

    I don't like the military service guarantees citizenship approach we have, and I'd rather see a smaller more professional/specialized military and some more efficient budgeting, logistics, the whole damn military is a well-run mess. That would make room for national healthcare for citizens. Neither party is interested in reducing military spending, Republicans especially, but it's that or keep sweeping the growing costs under the table.
    We can cut military spending to 1/3 probably and not reduce troop levels at all.

    We have to cut welfare for Lockheed Martin, not Pvt. Pyle.
    meh

  9. #2149
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Without reducing military budget it would be hard to make up the cost of expanded healthcare. A government monopsony would be nice but the military is the biggest welfare program we have at the moment - the benefits for military vets are great, 9shitty) VA coverage for life and some kind of pension will set you up after discharged, and that's the minimums.

    I don't like the military service guarantees citizenship approach we have, and I'd rather see a smaller more professional/specialized military and some more efficient budgeting, logistics, the whole damn military is a well-run mess. That would make room for national healthcare for citizens. Neither party is interested in reducing military spending, Republicans especially, but it's that or keep sweeping the growing costs under the table.
    We can cut military spending to 1/3 probably and not reduce troop levels at all.

    We have to cut welfare for Lockheed Martin, not Pvt. Pyle.
    Yea that's another thing, these huge engineering firms are disappointing, overpaid, underdelivering bloat. The F35 is way too expensive for what we've gotten out of it so far and other smaller companies are delivering superior equipment in drone fighters.

  10. #2150
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    You get the worst of both worlds with these types of public/private programs.

  11. #2151
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Acosta BTFO.

  12. #2152
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Conceptual question:

    Should the Government be allowed to know how many non-citizens are in the Country?

    Should the Government be allowed to know (or find out) how many of those non-citizens are here illegally?

    Should the Government be allowed to deport people who have gone through the due process and been ordered for deportation?

    I feel like we're going a bit off the rails here. IMO our Government has a right to know who is here and what their status is.

    And to deport those the the court via full due process has ordered deported (i.e. the Raids currently eating up the news).

    Would people argue that no, the Government has no right to know who is here or what their status is? And no right to deport those ordered for deportation?

    If not via the Census, what IS the best route for the Government to know the number of non-citizens and/or illegal immigrants that are here? And wouldn't knowing that be kinda important, to inform the debate on policy for handling the issue?

    To inform this, lets look at what we used to have to tell the Govt. in the Census as recently as 2000:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Census Questions
    Name
    What is this person's telephone number?
    Sex
    Age and date of birth
    Is this person of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino?
    Race
    Marital Status
    At any time since February 1, 2000, has this person attended regular school or college?
    If yes, what grade or level was this person attending?
    What is the highest degree or level of school this person has completed?
    What is this person's ancestry or ethnic origin?
    Does this person speak a language other than English at home?
    What is this language?
    How well does this person speak English?
    What state or country was this person from?
    Is this person a citizen of the United States?
    If the person was not born in the United States, when did he come to live in the United States?
    Did this person live in this house or apartment 5 years ago?
    Where did this person live 5 years ago?
    Does this person have any of the following long-lasting conditions:
    Blindness, deafness, or a severe vision or hearing impairment?
    A condition that substantially limits one or more basic physical activities such as walking, climbing stairs, reaching, lifting, or carrying?
    Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition lasting six months or more, does this person have any difficulty in doing any of the following activities:
    Learning, remembering, or concentrating?
    Dressing, bathing, getting around inside the home?
    If the person is 16 years or older, going outside the home alone to shop or visit a doctor's office
    If the person is 16 years or older, working at a job or business
    Was this person under 15 years of age on April 1, 2000?
    If yes, skip to Question 33
    Does this person have any of his/her own grandchildren under the age of 18 living in this house or apartment?
    If yes, is this grandparent currently responsible for most of the basic needs of any grandchildren under the age of 18 who live in this house or apartment?
    How long has this grandparent been responsible for these grandchildren?
    Has this person ever served on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces, military Reserves, or National Guard?
    When did this person serve on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces?
    April 1995 or later
    August 1990 to March 1995 (including Persian Gulf War)
    September 1980 to July 1990
    May 1975 to August 1980
    Vietnam era (August 1964 - April 1975)
    February 1955 - July 1964
    Korean conflict (June 1950 - January 1955)
    World War II (September 1940 - July 1947)
    Any other time
    In total, how many years of active-duty military service has this person had?
    Last week, did this person do any work for either pay or profit?
    At what location did this person work last week?
    How did this person usually get to work last week?
    Car, truck, or van
    Bus or trolley bus
    Streetcar or trolley car
    Subway or elevated
    Railroad
    Ferryboat
    Taxicab
    Motorcycle
    Bicycle
    Walked only
    Worked at home
    Other
    If the person used a car, truck, or van, how many people, including this person, usually rode to work in the same vehicle last week?
    What time did this person usually leave home to go to work last week?
    How many minutes did it usually take this person to get from home to work last week?
    Last week, was this person on layoff from a job?
    Last week, was this person temporarily absent from a job or business?
    If on layoff, has this person been informed that he or she will be recalled to work within the next 6 months or been given a date to return to work?
    If no, has this person been looking for work during the last 4 weeks?
    Last week, could this person have started a job if offered one, or returned to work if recalled?
    When did this person last work, even for a few days?
    Industry or Employer
    For whom did this person work?
    What kind of business or industry was this?
    Is this job mainly...
    Manufacturing
    Wholesale trade
    Retail trade
    Other
    Occupation
    What kind of work was this person doing?
    What were this person's most important activities or duties?
    Was this person-
    Employee of a private for profit company, business, or individual, for wages, salary, or commissions
    Employee of a private not-for-profit, tax-exempt, or charitable organization
    Local government employee
    State government employee
    Federal government employee
    Self-employed in own not incorporated business
    Self-employed in own incorporated business
    Working without pay in family business or farm
    Last year, 1999, did this person work at a job or business at any time?
    How many weeks did this person work in 1999?
    During the weeks worked in 1999, how many hours did this person usually work each week?
    Income in 1999-
    Wages, salary, commissions, bonuses, or tips from all jobs
    Self-employment income from own non-farm businesses or farm businesses, including proprietorship and partnership
    Interest, dividends, net rental income or royalty income, or income from estates and trusts
    Social Security or Railroad Retirement
    Supplemental Security (SSI)
    Any public assistance or welfare payments from the state or local welfare offices
    Retirement, survivor, or disability pensions
    Any other sources of income received regularly such as Veterans' (VA) payments, unemployment compensation, child support, or alimony
    What was this person's total income in 1989?
    Is this house, apartment, or mobile home-
    Owned by you or someone in this household with a mortgage or loan?
    Owned by you or someone in this household free and clear (without a mortgage or loan)?
    Rented for cash rent?
    Occupied without payment of cash rent?
    Which best describes this building?
    A mobile home or trailer
    A one-family house detached from any other house
    A one-family house attached to one or more houses
    A building for 2 families
    A building for 3 or 4 families
    A building for 5 to 9 families
    A building for 10 to 19 families
    A building for 20 to 49 families
    A building for 50 or more families
    Boat, RV, van, etc.
    About when was this building first built?
    When did this person move into this house, apartment, or mobile home?
    How many rooms do you have in this house, apartment, or mobile home?
    How many bedrooms do you have in this house, apartment or mobile home??
    Do you have complete plumbing facilities in this house, apartment or mobile home?
    Do you have complete kitchen facilities in this house, apartment or mobile home?
    Is there telephone service available in this house, apartment, or mobile home from which you can both make and receive calls?
    Which fuel is used most for heating this house or apartment?
    Gas from underground pipes serving the neighborhood
    Gas: bottled, tank, or LP
    Electricity
    Fuel oil, kerosene, etc.
    Coal or coke
    Wood
    Solar energy
    Other fuel
    No fuel used
    How many automobiles, vans, and trucks of one-tone capacity or less are kept at home for use by members of your household?
    If this is a one family house or mobile home-
    Is there a business (such as a store or barber shop) on the property?
    How many acres is this house or mobile home on?
    in 1999, what were the actual sales of all agricultural products from this property?
    What are the yearly costs of utilities and fuels for this house apartment, or mobile home?
    Electricity
    Gas
    Water
    Oil, coal, kerosene, wood, etc.
    If you pay rent-
    What is the monthly rent?
    Does the monthly rent include any meals?
    Answer Questions 47 - 53 only if you or someone in this household owns or is buying this house, apartment, or mobile home

    Do you have a mortgage, deed or trust, contract to purchase, or similar debt on this property?
    If yes, how much is your regular monthly mortgage payment on this house?
    Does your regular monthly mortgage payment include payments from real estate taxes on this property?
    Do you have a second mortgage or a home equity loan on this property?
    How much is your regular monthly payment on all second or junior mortgages and all home equity loans on this property?
    What were the real estate taxes on this property last year?
    What was the annual payment for fire, hazard, and flood insurance on this property?
    What is the value of this property? That is, how much do you think this house and lot, apartment, or mobile home and lot would sell for if it were on sale?
    If this property is a condominium, what is the monthly condominium fee?
    If this property is a mobile home-
    Do you have an installment loan or contract on this mobile home?
    What was the total cost for installment loan payments, personal property taxes, site rent, registration fees, and license fees on this mobile home and its site last year?

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.

  13. #2153
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Without reducing military budget it would be hard to make up the cost of expanded healthcare both by freeing up budget for healthcare and cutting the ridiculous costs of the medical industry (with ridiculous profit margins above 25% and target goals in a lot of companies are 40%, and these fuckers aren't even providing service; they're consultants and middlemen).. A government monopsony would be nice but the military is the biggest welfare program we have at the moment - the benefits for military vets are great, 9shitty) VA coverage for life and some kind of pension will set you up after discharged, and that's the minimums.

    I don't like the military service guarantees citizenship approach we have, and I'd rather see a smaller more professional/specialized military and some more efficient budgeting, logistics, the whole damn military is a well-run mess. That would make room for national healthcare for citizens. Neither party is interested in reducing military spending, Republicans especially, but it's that or keep sweeping the growing costs under the table.
    The UK NHS results in a per-capita healthcare spending that is about 40% of the US.

    About 1.2 trillion out of the 3.4 trillion is government spending on healthcare. If we got our spending anywhere close to the UK or OECD average, we could accommodate Medicare For All within the current budget.

    But we should still cut the defense budget for other reasons

  14. #2154
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Conceptual question:

    Should the Government be allowed to know how many non-citizens are in the Country?

    Should the Government be allowed to know (or find out) how many of those non-citizens are here illegally?

    Should the Government be allowed to deport people who have gone through the due process and been ordered for deportation?

    I feel like we're going a bit off the rails here. IMO our Government has a right to know who is here and what their status is.

    And to deport those the the court via full due process has ordered deported (i.e. the Raids currently eating up the news).

    Would people argue that no, the Government has no right to know who is here or what their status is? And no right to deport those ordered for deportation?

    If not via the Census, what IS the best route for the Government to know the number of non-citizens and/or illegal immigrants that are here? And wouldn't knowing that be kinda important, to inform the debate on policy for handling the issue?

    To inform this, lets look at what we used to have to tell the Govt. in the Census as recently as 2000:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Census Questions
    Name
    What is this person's telephone number?
    Sex
    Age and date of birth
    Is this person of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino?
    Race
    Marital Status
    At any time since February 1, 2000, has this person attended regular school or college?
    If yes, what grade or level was this person attending?
    What is the highest degree or level of school this person has completed?
    What is this person's ancestry or ethnic origin?
    Does this person speak a language other than English at home?
    What is this language?
    How well does this person speak English?
    What state or country was this person from?
    Is this person a citizen of the United States?
    If the person was not born in the United States, when did he come to live in the United States?
    Did this person live in this house or apartment 5 years ago?
    Where did this person live 5 years ago?
    Does this person have any of the following long-lasting conditions:
    Blindness, deafness, or a severe vision or hearing impairment?
    A condition that substantially limits one or more basic physical activities such as walking, climbing stairs, reaching, lifting, or carrying?
    Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition lasting six months or more, does this person have any difficulty in doing any of the following activities:
    Learning, remembering, or concentrating?
    Dressing, bathing, getting around inside the home?
    If the person is 16 years or older, going outside the home alone to shop or visit a doctor's office
    If the person is 16 years or older, working at a job or business
    Was this person under 15 years of age on April 1, 2000?
    If yes, skip to Question 33
    Does this person have any of his/her own grandchildren under the age of 18 living in this house or apartment?
    If yes, is this grandparent currently responsible for most of the basic needs of any grandchildren under the age of 18 who live in this house or apartment?
    How long has this grandparent been responsible for these grandchildren?
    Has this person ever served on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces, military Reserves, or National Guard?
    When did this person serve on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces?
    April 1995 or later
    August 1990 to March 1995 (including Persian Gulf War)
    September 1980 to July 1990
    May 1975 to August 1980
    Vietnam era (August 1964 - April 1975)
    February 1955 - July 1964
    Korean conflict (June 1950 - January 1955)
    World War II (September 1940 - July 1947)
    Any other time
    In total, how many years of active-duty military service has this person had?
    Last week, did this person do any work for either pay or profit?
    At what location did this person work last week?
    How did this person usually get to work last week?
    Car, truck, or van
    Bus or trolley bus
    Streetcar or trolley car
    Subway or elevated
    Railroad
    Ferryboat
    Taxicab
    Motorcycle
    Bicycle
    Walked only
    Worked at home
    Other
    If the person used a car, truck, or van, how many people, including this person, usually rode to work in the same vehicle last week?
    What time did this person usually leave home to go to work last week?
    How many minutes did it usually take this person to get from home to work last week?
    Last week, was this person on layoff from a job?
    Last week, was this person temporarily absent from a job or business?
    If on layoff, has this person been informed that he or she will be recalled to work within the next 6 months or been given a date to return to work?
    If no, has this person been looking for work during the last 4 weeks?
    Last week, could this person have started a job if offered one, or returned to work if recalled?
    When did this person last work, even for a few days?
    Industry or Employer
    For whom did this person work?
    What kind of business or industry was this?
    Is this job mainly...
    Manufacturing
    Wholesale trade
    Retail trade
    Other
    Occupation
    What kind of work was this person doing?
    What were this person's most important activities or duties?
    Was this person-
    Employee of a private for profit company, business, or individual, for wages, salary, or commissions
    Employee of a private not-for-profit, tax-exempt, or charitable organization
    Local government employee
    State government employee
    Federal government employee
    Self-employed in own not incorporated business
    Self-employed in own incorporated business
    Working without pay in family business or farm
    Last year, 1999, did this person work at a job or business at any time?
    How many weeks did this person work in 1999?
    During the weeks worked in 1999, how many hours did this person usually work each week?
    Income in 1999-
    Wages, salary, commissions, bonuses, or tips from all jobs
    Self-employment income from own non-farm businesses or farm businesses, including proprietorship and partnership
    Interest, dividends, net rental income or royalty income, or income from estates and trusts
    Social Security or Railroad Retirement
    Supplemental Security (SSI)
    Any public assistance or welfare payments from the state or local welfare offices
    Retirement, survivor, or disability pensions
    Any other sources of income received regularly such as Veterans' (VA) payments, unemployment compensation, child support, or alimony
    What was this person's total income in 1989?
    Is this house, apartment, or mobile home-
    Owned by you or someone in this household with a mortgage or loan?
    Owned by you or someone in this household free and clear (without a mortgage or loan)?
    Rented for cash rent?
    Occupied without payment of cash rent?
    Which best describes this building?
    A mobile home or trailer
    A one-family house detached from any other house
    A one-family house attached to one or more houses
    A building for 2 families
    A building for 3 or 4 families
    A building for 5 to 9 families
    A building for 10 to 19 families
    A building for 20 to 49 families
    A building for 50 or more families
    Boat, RV, van, etc.
    About when was this building first built?
    When did this person move into this house, apartment, or mobile home?
    How many rooms do you have in this house, apartment, or mobile home?
    How many bedrooms do you have in this house, apartment or mobile home??
    Do you have complete plumbing facilities in this house, apartment or mobile home?
    Do you have complete kitchen facilities in this house, apartment or mobile home?
    Is there telephone service available in this house, apartment, or mobile home from which you can both make and receive calls?
    Which fuel is used most for heating this house or apartment?
    Gas from underground pipes serving the neighborhood
    Gas: bottled, tank, or LP
    Electricity
    Fuel oil, kerosene, etc.
    Coal or coke
    Wood
    Solar energy
    Other fuel
    No fuel used
    How many automobiles, vans, and trucks of one-tone capacity or less are kept at home for use by members of your household?
    If this is a one family house or mobile home-
    Is there a business (such as a store or barber shop) on the property?
    How many acres is this house or mobile home on?
    in 1999, what were the actual sales of all agricultural products from this property?
    What are the yearly costs of utilities and fuels for this house apartment, or mobile home?
    Electricity
    Gas
    Water
    Oil, coal, kerosene, wood, etc.
    If you pay rent-
    What is the monthly rent?
    Does the monthly rent include any meals?
    Answer Questions 47 - 53 only if you or someone in this household owns or is buying this house, apartment, or mobile home

    Do you have a mortgage, deed or trust, contract to purchase, or similar debt on this property?
    If yes, how much is your regular monthly mortgage payment on this house?
    Does your regular monthly mortgage payment include payments from real estate taxes on this property?
    Do you have a second mortgage or a home equity loan on this property?
    How much is your regular monthly payment on all second or junior mortgages and all home equity loans on this property?
    What were the real estate taxes on this property last year?
    What was the annual payment for fire, hazard, and flood insurance on this property?
    What is the value of this property? That is, how much do you think this house and lot, apartment, or mobile home and lot would sell for if it were on sale?
    If this property is a condominium, what is the monthly condominium fee?
    If this property is a mobile home-
    Do you have an installment loan or contract on this mobile home?
    What was the total cost for installment loan payments, personal property taxes, site rent, registration fees, and license fees on this mobile home and its site last year?
    Do you understand how statistical sampling works, because the long form census questionnaire which contained those questions, would only have gone to a small number of households. Cheeto Mussolini wants in in the short form census, and it trying to do it illegally anyway, because he's a useless asshole. You can't be this dumb.
    meh

  15. #2155
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Do you understand how statistical sampling works, because the long form census questionnaire which contained those questions, would only have gone to a small number of households. Cheeto Mussolini wants in in the short form census, and it trying to do it illegally anyway, because he's a useless asshole. You can't be this dumb.
    You didn't answer the questions I asked.

    They're pretty straightforward yes/no questions, tbqh.

    If you say "no", that's fine, I'm just interested to hear why.

    I'm not looking to argue, I'm looking to understand.
    Last edited by Alistair; July 12 2019 at 02:36:43 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.

  16. #2156
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    To a historian it's freaking awesome that the US does a very thorough census every ten years and has been doing so since 1790(!). And it's easily available.

    That's unique and such a help when doing research.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  17. #2157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Talking about potentional Dem candidates: what's Al Gore up to these days? Would he do better than Biden?

    I agree with the folks here stating that Biden is only there (and up in the polls) because of name recognition, not because of merits. But at the same time I somehwat understand the Dems' wish to put a recognizable name on the list - recognizable at least in their perception. IMHO Gore would in theory fit that bill for the Dems, while (hopefully) at the same time would be able to put forward a political program that would change things around.
    Why not run Howard Dean while you're at it?
    Never heard of him until now, when I looked him up due to you mentioning him, so you tell me. A quick glance over his Wikipedia entry makes him look not too terrible, though.

  18. #2158
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Yeah but that Dean scream.

  19. #2159

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    Looking at Trump, that might actually a bonus these days.

  20. #2160
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    So regarding the right for the government to know various things. I think the issue is one of how *much* they know, not the categories of knowledge available.

    There’s a fair amount of literature in criminal law scholarship about the idea that the state should not have perfect information about the status and activities of the public. That it needs some data to function, but that perfect information just means you end up with a police state.

    So yeah, the government should know to some degree of statistical significance how many citizens vs non citizens, etc. But maybe it shouldn’t have perfect data on exactly who the citizens and non-citizens are, and exactly where they live.

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