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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #2201
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Should probably get the thread back on track, but with 20k live sacrifices a year (80k for special highlights), I'd be hard pressed to say that the Europeans were just as bad as the Aztecs. Doesnt include incidental deaths of slaves or sacrifices made by other civilizations either.


    https://www.historyrevealed.com/eras...ecs-sacrifice/

    So, my choice is pretty clear (source quality be damned)

    Back to the regular US circus I'd say.
    So, 20k sacrifices a year, ramping up to 80k, as the apocalypse was coming (it was, his name was Cortez).

    vs. How many people where being murdered and enslaved by Europeans in the same period?

    Dude, you have an extremely rose colored view of how brutish and murderous your ancestors were...
    Well, the 20k/80k doesnt include that actual number of slaves or those murdered in conquest, only those sacrificed by the Aztecs alone - not counting mayans, incas and possibly other minors on the continent.

    Add in those actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare.

    Very much guesswork of course, but like I said - if forced to choose between the two, I know which method of abusing humanity I'd pick. At least the Europeans got something out of it other than footsie and human racquetball.
    Yeah. Collapsing society as colonialism and centuries of treating brown people as expendable comes home to roost.
    meh

  2. #2202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Should probably get the thread back on track, but with 20k live sacrifices a year (80k for special highlights), I'd be hard pressed to say that the Europeans were just as bad as the Aztecs. Doesnt include incidental deaths of slaves or sacrifices made by other civilizations either.


    https://www.historyrevealed.com/eras...ecs-sacrifice/

    So, my choice is pretty clear (source quality be damned)

    Back to the regular US circus I'd say.
    So, 20k sacrifices a year, ramping up to 80k, as the apocalypse was coming (it was, his name was Cortez).

    vs. How many people where being murdered and enslaved by Europeans in the same period?

    Dude, you have an extremely rose colored view of how brutish and murderous your ancestors were...
    Well, the 20k/80k doesnt include that actual number of slaves or those murdered in conquest, only those sacrificed by the Aztecs alone - not counting mayans, incas and possibly other minors on the continent.

    Add in those actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare.

    Very much guesswork of course, but like I said - if forced to choose between the two, I know which method of abusing humanity I'd pick. At least the Europeans got something out of it other than footsie and human racquetball.
    brb taking out the calipers and smallpox blankets

  3. #2203
    Ski Boot Fortior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Should probably get the thread back on track, but with 20k live sacrifices a year (80k for special highlights), I'd be hard pressed to say that the Europeans were just as bad as the Aztecs. Doesnt include incidental deaths of slaves or sacrifices made by other civilizations either.


    https://www.historyrevealed.com/eras...ecs-sacrifice/

    So, my choice is pretty clear (source quality be damned)

    Back to the regular US circus I'd say.
    So, 20k sacrifices a year, ramping up to 80k, as the apocalypse was coming (it was, his name was Cortez).

    vs. How many people where being murdered and enslaved by Europeans in the same period?

    Dude, you have an extremely rose colored view of how brutish and murderous your ancestors were...
    Well, the 20k/80k doesnt include that actual number of slaves or those murdered in conquest, only those sacrificed by the Aztecs alone - not counting mayans, incas and possibly other minors on the continent.

    Add in those actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare.

    Very much guesswork of course, but like I said - if forced to choose between the two, I know which method of abusing humanity I'd pick. At least the Europeans got something out of it other than footsie and human racquetball.
    Yeah. Collapsing society as colonialism and centuries of treating brown people as expendable comes home to roost.
    With Aztec style, maybe everyone would just get killed off so nothing that could come back to bite you in the ass? The ecological nihilist might actually prefer that honestly.

    I do have one caveat to the above that springs to mind - fuck Belgium and Leo, that shit was all kinds of horrible.
    Real men pvp in barges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus View Post
    good to see that Fortior seems like a decent bloke and isn't a gay fat faggot nerd despite his pony avatar

  4. #2204
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Speros Vryonis in Byzantium and Europe gives a vivid account of the sack:

    The Latin soldiery subjected the greatest city in Europe to an indescribable sack. For three days they murdered, raped, looted and destroyed on a scale which even the ancient Vandals and Goths would have found unbelievable. Constantinople had become a veritable museum of ancient Roman and Byzantine art, an emporium of such incredible wealth that the Latins were astounded at the riches they found. Though the Venetians had an appreciation for the art which they discovered (they were themselves semi-Byzantines) and saved much of it, the French and others destroyed indiscriminately, halting to refresh themselves with wine, violation of nuns, and murder of Orthodox clerics. The Crusaders vented their hatred for the Greeks most spectacularly in the desecration of the greatest Church in Christendom. They smashed the silver iconostasis, the icons and the holy books of Hagia Sophia, and seated upon the patriarchal throne a whore who sang coarse songs as they drank wine from the Church's holy vessels.


    The estrangement of East and West, which had proceeded over the centuries, culminated in the horrible massacre that accompanied the conquest of Constantinople. The Greeks were convinced that even the Turks, had they taken the city, would not have been as cruel as the Latin Christians. The defeat of Byzantium, already in a state of decline, accelerated political degeneration so that the Byzantines eventually became an easy prey to the Turks. The Crusading movement thus resulted, ultimately, in the victory of Islam, a result which was of course the exact opposite of its original intention.
    E N L I G H T E N E D C I V I L I Z A T I O N
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; July 13 2019 at 05:01:08 PM.

  5. #2205
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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  6. #2206
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Should probably get the thread back on track, but with 20k live sacrifices a year (80k for special highlights), I'd be hard pressed to say that the Europeans were just as bad as the Aztecs. Doesnt include incidental deaths of slaves or sacrifices made by other civilizations either.


    https://www.historyrevealed.com/eras...ecs-sacrifice/

    So, my choice is pretty clear (source quality be damned)

    Back to the regular US circus I'd say.
    So, 20k sacrifices a year, ramping up to 80k, as the apocalypse was coming (it was, his name was Cortez).

    vs. How many people where being murdered and enslaved by Europeans in the same period?

    Dude, you have an extremely rose colored view of how brutish and murderous your ancestors were...
    Well, the 20k/80k doesnt include that actual number of slaves or those murdered in conquest, only those sacrificed by the Aztecs alone - not counting mayans, incas and possibly other minors on the continent.

    Add in those actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare.

    Very much guesswork of course, but like I said - if forced to choose between the two, I know which method of abusing humanity I'd pick. At least the Europeans got something out of it other than footsie and human racquetball.
    Yeah. Collapsing society as colonialism and centuries of treating brown people as expendable comes home to roost.
    With Aztec style, maybe everyone would just get killed off so nothing that could come back to bite you in the ass? The ecological nihilist might actually prefer that honestly.

    I do have one caveat to the above that springs to mind - fuck Belgium and Leo, that shit was all kinds of horrible.
    The Belgians where by far, not the only perpetrators of atrocities in the new world. Just one of the most recent.

    Here. You can get a sense of how many people were sacrificed in Europe during your precious Renaissance on the altar of superstition. The Aztecs didn't even get close to these kind of numbers, and I bet you they treated their slaves much better as well. Even the ones destined to die.

    One authority puts France's losses against Austria at 80,000 killed or wounded and against Spain (including the years 1648–1659, after Westphalia) at 300,000 dead or disabled.[22] Sweden and Finland lost, by one calculation, 110,000 dead from all causes.[22] Another 400,000 Germans, British, and other nationalities died in Swedish service.[22]

    With minor exceptions, the Thirty Years' War marked the end of trumpeting Christianity as the major motivation for mass-scale murder. According to Voltaire in his listing of "Christian barbarities", Christianity, from the sacrifice of Jesus up to 1769, was responsible for 9,468,800 deaths. A more popular figure from 1897 by The Rationalist's Manual by M. D. Aletheia gave a death toll of 56 million:

    Let us look for a moment at the number of victims sacrificed on the altars of the Christian Moloch: 1,000,000 perished during the early Arian schism; 1,000,000 during the Carthaginian struggle; 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters in Spain. 5,000,000 perished during the eight Crusades; 2,000,000 of Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives in opposing the introduction of the blessings of Christianity. 1,000,000 were destroyed in the Holy(?) Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, and Huguenots. 30,000,000 Mexicans and Peruvians were slaughtered before they could be convinced of the beauties(?) of the Christian creed. 9,000,000 were burned for witchcraft. Total, 56,000,000.
    Here are 20000 Europeans who died in a single day, in a much more civilized way, for much more civilized reasons.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Magdeburg
    meh

  7. #2207
    Ski Boot Fortior's Avatar
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    Well, like I said before - include actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare. To kick it up a notch, how many did the mesoamericans kill/enslave relative to their own population, and how many on the European side?

    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    Real men pvp in barges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus View Post
    good to see that Fortior seems like a decent bloke and isn't a gay fat faggot nerd despite his pony avatar

  8. #2208

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    Just a reminder:

    The reason this is idiotic is because saying south American countries are and would be awful no matter what and putting the US on a pedestal when they're all colonial made countries with not much relative history if you don't count their European source is indeed beyond fucking retarded with a good dose of racism mixed in.

    NBS for who posted it I suppose the absolute fucking piece of shit that he has been since he joined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    You're discussing conclusions that are unrelated completely to why this moronic tangent got started anyway.
    Last edited by Isyel; July 13 2019 at 05:33:45 PM.

  9. #2209
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Well, like I said before - include actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare. To kick it up a notch, how many did the mesoamericans kill/enslave relative to their own population, and how many on the European side?

    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    Well sure. You can conveniently ignore facts all day, every day. It's become pretty common, tbh.
    meh

  10. #2210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Speros Vryonis in Byzantium and Europe gives a vivid account of the sack:

    The Latin soldiery subjected the greatest city in Europe to an indescribable sack. For three days they murdered, raped, looted and destroyed on a scale which even the ancient Vandals and Goths would have found unbelievable. Constantinople had become a veritable museum of ancient Roman and Byzantine art, an emporium of such incredible wealth that the Latins were astounded at the riches they found. Though the Venetians had an appreciation for the art which they discovered (they were themselves semi-Byzantines) and saved much of it, the French and others destroyed indiscriminately, halting to refresh themselves with wine, violation of nuns, and murder of Orthodox clerics. The Crusaders vented their hatred for the Greeks most spectacularly in the desecration of the greatest Church in Christendom. They smashed the silver iconostasis, the icons and the holy books of Hagia Sophia, and seated upon the patriarchal throne a whore who sang coarse songs as they drank wine from the Church's holy vessels.


    The estrangement of East and West, which had proceeded over the centuries, culminated in the horrible massacre that accompanied the conquest of Constantinople. The Greeks were convinced that even the Turks, had they taken the city, would not have been as cruel as the Latin Christians. The defeat of Byzantium, already in a state of decline, accelerated political degeneration so that the Byzantines eventually became an easy prey to the Turks. The Crusading movement thus resulted, ultimately, in the victory of Islam, a result which was of course the exact opposite of its original intention.
    E N L I G H T E N E D C I V I L I Z A T I O N
    A fitting fate for orthodox heretics

  11. #2211
    Ski Boot Fortior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Well, like I said before - include actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare. To kick it up a notch, how many did the mesoamericans kill/enslave relative to their own population, and how many on the European side?

    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    Well sure. You can conveniently ignore facts all day, every day. It's become pretty common, tbh.
    Alright, how about this then.

    If we're going to figure out which branch of civilizations is the worst when it comes to slavery in the 13th-15th century, (or expand the range by another few centuries if you will) I'll say that the straight up carving out of hearts/internal organs and live sacrifices of 20 000 humans per year - by one people/tribe/civilization alone of around 11 million inhabitants - and not including any other deaths caused by slavery and conquest, is worse in my book. We're talking ritualized torture and organ carving of live humans in a clearly very organized manner.

    Like I said, if we're forced to pick a method of enslaving and abusing our fellow man, I'd go with the one where the unfortunate subject isn't ritually forced to look at his own heart being carved out of his body. Not to mention the child sacrifices.

    I think the end of this topic has been reached, at least from my side.
    Real men pvp in barges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus View Post
    good to see that Fortior seems like a decent bloke and isn't a gay fat faggot nerd despite his pony avatar

  12. #2212
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Well, like I said before - include actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare. To kick it up a notch, how many did the mesoamericans kill/enslave relative to their own population, and how many on the European side?

    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    Well sure. You can conveniently ignore facts all day, every day. It's become pretty common, tbh.
    Alright, how about this then.

    If we're going to figure out which branch of civilizations is the worst when it comes to slavery in the 13th-15th century, (or expand the range by another few centuries if you will) I'll say that the straight up carving out of hearts/internal organs and live sacrifices of 20 000 humans per year - by one people/tribe/civilization alone of around 11 million inhabitants - and not including any other deaths caused by slavery and conquest, is worse in my book. We're talking ritualized torture and organ carving of live humans in a clearly very organized manner.

    Like I said, if we're forced to pick a method of enslaving and abusing our fellow man, I'd go with the one where the unfortunate subject isn't ritually forced to look at his own heart being carved out of his body. Not to mention the child sacrifices.

    I think the end of this topic has been reached, at least from my side.
    What was the attrition rate on slaves in America?
    And apparently up to 80 000/year was taken from Africa into Americas during 1700´s.

    And Europeans killed what 20 million Native american indians with disease and shit so i wouldn't climb to high onto that horse.

  13. #2213
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Well, like I said before - include actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare. To kick it up a notch, how many did the mesoamericans kill/enslave relative to their own population, and how many on the European side?

    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    Well sure. You can conveniently ignore facts all day, every day. It's become pretty common, tbh.
    Alright, how about this then.

    If we're going to figure out which branch of civilizations is the worst when it comes to slavery in the 13th-15th century, (or expand the range by another few centuries if you will) I'll say that the straight up carving out of hearts/internal organs and live sacrifices of 20 000 humans per year - by one people/tribe/civilization alone of around 11 million inhabitants - and not including any other deaths caused by slavery and conquest, is worse in my book. We're talking ritualized torture and organ carving of live humans in a clearly very organized manner.

    Like I said, if we're forced to pick a method of enslaving and abusing our fellow man, I'd go with the one where the unfortunate subject isn't ritually forced to look at his own heart being carved out of his body. Not to mention the child sacrifices.

    I think the end of this topic has been reached, at least from my side.
    And here we can see a textbook case for Presentism.

    In literary and historical analysis, presentism is the anachronistic introduction of present-day ideas and perspectives into depictions or interpretations of the past. Some modern historians seek to avoid presentism in their work because they consider it a form of cultural bias, and believe it creates a distorted understanding of their subject matter. The practice of presentism is regarded by some as a common fallacy in historical writing.
    nevar forget

  14. #2214
    Ski Boot Fortior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Well, like I said before - include actually enslaved, killed whilst enslaved and killed whilst conquered if you want to compare. To kick it up a notch, how many did the mesoamericans kill/enslave relative to their own population, and how many on the European side?

    As mentioned earlier, the relative worthiness and development of civilizations can be debated forever. You're not going to change my mind on this, not will I yours.
    Well sure. You can conveniently ignore facts all day, every day. It's become pretty common, tbh.
    Alright, how about this then.

    If we're going to figure out which branch of civilizations is the worst when it comes to slavery in the 13th-15th century, (or expand the range by another few centuries if you will) I'll say that the straight up carving out of hearts/internal organs and live sacrifices of 20 000 humans per year - by one people/tribe/civilization alone of around 11 million inhabitants - and not including any other deaths caused by slavery and conquest, is worse in my book. We're talking ritualized torture and organ carving of live humans in a clearly very organized manner.

    Like I said, if we're forced to pick a method of enslaving and abusing our fellow man, I'd go with the one where the unfortunate subject isn't ritually forced to look at his own heart being carved out of his body. Not to mention the child sacrifices.

    I think the end of this topic has been reached, at least from my side.
    And here we can see a textbook case for Presentism.

    In literary and historical analysis, presentism is the anachronistic introduction of present-day ideas and perspectives into depictions or interpretations of the past. Some modern historians seek to avoid presentism in their work because they consider it a form of cultural bias, and believe it creates a distorted understanding of their subject matter. The practice of presentism is regarded by some as a common fallacy in historical writing.
    Well yeah, it's the personal opinion of a random shitposter, not a scientific dissertation.

    Not seeing anyone preferring the heart carving for the time being though.
    Real men pvp in barges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus View Post
    good to see that Fortior seems like a decent bloke and isn't a gay fat faggot nerd despite his pony avatar

  15. #2215
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...hts-commission

    The Trump administration said Monday that it will review the role of human rights in American foreign policy, appointing a commission expected to elevate concerns about religious freedom and abortion.
    “I hope that the commission will revisit the most basic of questions: What does it mean to say, or claim, that something is in fact a human right?” Pompeo said. “How do we know, or how do we determine that this — or that — is a human right. Is it true, and therefore ought it to be honored?”
    Good thing Democrats know how to oppose this administration
    Since when has US foreign policy in the Americas been remotely concerned with any kind of decency?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  16. #2216
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...hts-commission

    The Trump administration said Monday that it will review the role of human rights in American foreign policy, appointing a commission expected to elevate concerns about religious freedom and abortion.
    “I hope that the commission will revisit the most basic of questions: What does it mean to say, or claim, that something is in fact a human right?” Pompeo said. “How do we know, or how do we determine that this — or that — is a human right. Is it true, and therefore ought it to be honored?”
    Good thing Democrats know how to oppose this administration
    Since when has US foreign policy in the Americas been remotely concerned with any kind of decency?
    As human rights claims have “proliferated,” he said, nations have grown confused about what constitutes a human right and which rights should be respected and treated as valid.
    I look forward to the day this piece of shit tries to use the "I was just doing my job" excuse. They all shit themselves the same way at the end of a rope.
    meh

  17. #2217

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...hts-commission

    The Trump administration said Monday that it will review the role of human rights in American foreign policy, appointing a commission expected to elevate concerns about religious freedom and abortion.
    “I hope that the commission will revisit the most basic of questions: What does it mean to say, or claim, that something is in fact a human right?” Pompeo said. “How do we know, or how do we determine that this — or that — is a human right. Is it true, and therefore ought it to be honored?”
    Good thing Democrats know how to oppose this administration
    Since when has US foreign policy in the Americas been remotely concerned with any kind of decency?
    As human rights claims have “proliferated,” he said, nations have grown confused about what constitutes a human right and which rights should be respected and treated as valid.
    I look forward to the day this piece of shit tries to use the "I was just doing my job" excuse. They all shit themselves the same way at the end of a rope.
    There is a difference between basic human rights (universal iirc 30 of them) and the 'proliferation' of human rights. There have been some weird extensions in especially the EU.
    I'm sure that cretin is not talking about rights for white folks or US citizens at least. This is just to warm up the Fox crowd. Expect mocking of Human rights with mentioned weird/odd ones soon because you know one of the human rights is having a decent living space and hygiene products which are lacking in border camps rn.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  18. #2218
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    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...after-n1029571

    A day before the Trump administration was set to conduct mass roundups of undocumented immigrants around the U.S., a man threw incendiary devices at an immigrant detention center in Washington state and was later found dead at the scene after police opened fire.

    The unidentified suspect had set a vehicle outside the Tacoma Northwest Detention Center on fire and attempted to ignite a large propane tank next to the building, police said.

    He was armed with a rifle and had flares, Tacoma police said.

  19. #2219
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...after-n1029571

    A day before the Trump administration was set to conduct mass roundups of undocumented immigrants around the U.S., a man threw incendiary devices at an immigrant detention center in Washington state and was later found dead at the scene after police opened fire.

    The unidentified suspect had set a vehicle outside the Tacoma Northwest Detention Center on fire and attempted to ignite a large propane tank next to the building, police said.

    He was armed with a rifle and had flares, Tacoma police said.
    Shooter's race hasn't been specified...



  20. #2220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...after-n1029571

    A day before the Trump administration was set to conduct mass roundups of undocumented immigrants around the U.S., a man threw incendiary devices at an immigrant detention center in Washington state and was later found dead at the scene after police opened fire.

    The unidentified suspect had set a vehicle outside the Tacoma Northwest Detention Center on fire and attempted to ignite a large propane tank next to the building, police said.

    He was armed with a rifle and had flares, Tacoma police said.
    God speed hero

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