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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #17521
    Venec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Dude, based on what you said about Poland about you not having access to a decent job, decent healthcare, independent living from your parents, etc. you need capitalism really fucking badly. You don't have to worry about that in any country with advanced capitalism, including even the US because you're white and not the Appalachian white kind.
    Sarcasm or what?
    We've shifted the overton window p. far towards the left here, so based on that I'd say it's sarcasm. If not, then I'm not writing another 20 page essay in forum post format on how I def need less of it in my life.
    Last edited by Venec; February 22 2021 at 07:02:14 PM.

  2. #17522
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Dude, based on what you said about Poland about you not having access to a decent job, decent healthcare, independent living from your parents, etc. you need capitalism really fucking badly. You don't have to worry about that in any country with advanced capitalism, including even the US because you're white and not the Appalachian white kind.
    Sarcasm or what?
    We've shifted the overton window p. far towards the left here, so based on that I'd say it's sarcasm. If not, then I'm not writing another 20 page essay in forum post format on how I def need less of it in my life.
    Nah he is a 100% serious

  3. #17523
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It's not that capitalism is best, it's that all the others have failed worse.
    It's really not so bad!
    No, it's that the others are far, far worse at providing people dignity and a chance to not have a shit life.
    [it's really not so bad intensifies]
    Dude, based on what you said about Poland about you not having access to a decent job, decent healthcare, independent living from your parents, etc. you need capitalism really fucking badly. You don't have to worry about that in any country with advanced capitalism, including even the US because you're white and not the Appalachian white kind.
    However, woe fucking betide you if you weren't born white and and least middle class.
    meh

  4. #17524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    If only more people like rufuske stopped just relying on "it won't work" as a reason to not even attempt changes towards socialism. It doesn't work when forcibly imposed by a revolutionary minority, but its totally feasible otherwise, and its essential to escape the shit we have now
    I mean it's been mostly used to industrialise peasant economies which requires some entity to accumulate capital whether it's a oligarchic class or a revolutionary bureaucracy.

    We've already developed the industrial capacity that makes capitalism obsolete, we just need to democratise it.
    Can I ask you a question: Given your strong beliefs, how do you rationalize being a capitalist marketing person professionally, and not a public servant/government employee of some kind?

    I mean you really seem to believe what you say, so why not seek employment in a government job serving your fellow man, lord knows the UK has plenty of State jobs in plenty of roles all over the country.

    What makes you stay in London (an area you claim to loathe for property costs) and in marketing (a job, in a system, you clearly don't approve of in your beliefs), instead of moving to a quieter town and getting a State job serving the public?

    What is it that makes you reject public service as an career option for you?
    Nothing, I'm going back to university in September to become a physiotherapist now it's economically viable for me.

    I worked in marketing because it was the only job I could get after my engineering apprenticeship vanished when the company sponsoring me went bust. I was able to sell my labour as a marketer at a better rate than other things I had no formal qualifications in. I lived in London because it's a cultural capital and my friends are there.
    Last edited by Keckers; February 22 2021 at 07:34:21 PM.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  5. #17525
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I lived in London because it's a cultural capital
    I think that’s actually the Gregg’s in Humberside.
    meh

  6. #17526
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    If only more people like rufuske stopped just relying on "it won't work" as a reason to not even attempt changes towards socialism. It doesn't work when forcibly imposed by a revolutionary minority, but its totally feasible otherwise, and its essential to escape the shit we have now
    I mean it's been mostly used to industrialise peasant economies which requires some entity to accumulate capital whether it's a oligarchic class or a revolutionary bureaucracy.

    We've already developed the industrial capacity that makes capitalism obsolete, we just need to democratise it.
    Can I ask you a question: Given your strong beliefs, how do you rationalize being a capitalist marketing person professionally, and not a public servant/government employee of some kind?

    I mean you really seem to believe what you say, so why not seek employment in a government job serving your fellow man, lord knows the UK has plenty of State jobs in plenty of roles all over the country.

    What makes you stay in London (an area you claim to loathe for property costs) and in marketing (a job, in a system, you clearly don't approve of in your beliefs), instead of moving to a quieter town and getting a State job serving the public?

    What is it that makes you reject public service as an career option for you?
    Nothing, I'm going back to university in September to become a physiotherapist now it's economically viable for me.

    I worked in marketing because it was the only job I could get after my engineering apprenticeship vanished when the company sponsoring me went bust. I was able to sell my labour as a marketer at a better rate than other things I had no formal qualifications in. I lived in London because it's a cultural capital and my friends are there.
    Appreciate your answer, it's exactly what I expected.

    Good luck in your new University courses. I presume you'll be working and going to school, thats always a challenge (I know). Best of luck to you in your new career.


  7. #17527
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I lived in London because it's a cultural capital
    I think that’s actually the Gregg’s in Humberside.
    Confirming


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  8. #17528
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    If only more people like rufuske stopped just relying on "it won't work" as a reason to not even attempt changes towards socialism. It doesn't work when forcibly imposed by a revolutionary minority, but its totally feasible otherwise, and its essential to escape the shit we have now
    I mean it's been mostly used to industrialise peasant economies which requires some entity to accumulate capital whether it's a oligarchic class or a revolutionary bureaucracy.

    We've already developed the industrial capacity that makes capitalism obsolete, we just need to democratise it.
    Can I ask you a question: Given your strong beliefs, how do you rationalize being a capitalist marketing person professionally, and not a public servant/government employee of some kind?

    I mean you really seem to believe what you say, so why not seek employment in a government job serving your fellow man, lord knows the UK has plenty of State jobs in plenty of roles all over the country.

    What makes you stay in London (an area you claim to loathe for property costs) and in marketing (a job, in a system, you clearly don't approve of in your beliefs), instead of moving to a quieter town and getting a State job serving the public?

    What is it that makes you reject public service as an career option for you?
    Nothing, I'm going back to university in September to become a physiotherapist now it's economically viable for me.

    I worked in marketing because it was the only job I could get after my engineering apprenticeship vanished when the company sponsoring me went bust. I was able to sell my labour as a marketer at a better rate than other things I had no formal qualifications in. I lived in London because it's a cultural capital and my friends are there.
    Appreciate your answer, it's exactly what I expected.

    Good luck in your new University courses. I presume you'll be working and going to school, thats always a challenge (I know). Best of luck to you in your new career.
    Curious Alistair, what are you in school for now? Or am I insane and imagined you said you were? I might be insane regardless.

  9. #17529
    Venec's Avatar
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    HMMMMM


  10. #17530

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    Going away from the utopian society discussion, and back to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Not sure if it's been linked, but have a sense of Trump's paranoia and pettiness: https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/0...ht-wing-elite/
    From that article:
    Trump always had the same thing: shrimp cocktail, well-done steak, and fries
    Isn't that like the greatest disrespect to the chef, the cow and even the rancher that raised that cow?
    How did Trump win any of the cow farming states with a diet like that? Or did they not make it public?

  11. #17531

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Dude, based on what you said about Poland about you not having access to a decent job, decent healthcare, independent living from your parents, etc. you need capitalism really fucking badly. You don't have to worry about that in any country with advanced capitalism, including even the US because you're white and not the Appalachian white kind.
    Sarcasm or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Apologies for the late reply, I'm not here 24/7 these days.

    No, I would not agree with the statement "things only have value within the framework of "how can this make somebody money".

    I would, however, question the amount of societal value of an education that is subsequently not put to use in any activity, much less a "socially productive" way.

    Lets use an example: In this new system, I go to school to get an education in Fishing. I complete my education, then I never ever go fishing or ever catch a single fish from that point on.

    Was the education "socially productive" as you see it? If so, how/in what way?
    I'd say this is a problem with welding education and training together like we have.

    You're thinking of education with the intention of being trained to do something, and then applying that training later on to do those things. Which is fair...given the current nature of our education system.

    If you've been in the classroom lately, you'll probably hear faculty bitch about students treating the higher-education experience like it's a customer-business relationship. Which it obviously is lol. You're there paying however many x0000 USD to get the credential so you can then make better money. That's it. But I don't think this attitude is a good thing.
    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.

  12. #17532

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zibu View Post
    Going away from the utopian society discussion, and back to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Not sure if it's been linked, but have a sense of Trump's paranoia and pettiness: https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/0...ht-wing-elite/
    From that article:
    Trump always had the same thing: shrimp cocktail, well-done steak, and fries
    Isn't that like the greatest disrespect to the chef, the cow and even the rancher that raised that cow?
    How did Trump win any of the cow farming states with a diet like that? Or did they not make it public?
    Have you seen Rainer Werner Fassbinder's The American Soldier? In case you haven't, there's a wonderful scene where the main character is in a hotel room and orders a well-done steak, fries, ketchup and tomato juice. This is accurate to how American boomers eat.

  13. #17533
    Joshua Foiritain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.



  14. #17534
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post

    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.
    President Xi, I would like to be nerve-stapled like this so I never bring up the 1990s shock therapy and privatization spree again. I'm tired of doing it

  15. #17535
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post

    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.
    President Xi, I would like to be nerve-stapled like this so I never bring up the 1990s shock therapy and privatization spree again. I'm tired of doing it
    See the problem was the people running the liberali/privatization, if only they were not capitali- oh wait

  16. #17536
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post

    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.
    President Xi, I would like to be nerve-stapled like this so I never bring up the 1990s shock therapy and privatization spree again. I'm tired of doing it
    See the problem was the people running the liberali/privatization, if only they were not capitali- oh wait

    The chief engineer of it was a Swede, somehow im not totally convinced he had your best in mind....

  17. #17537
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post

    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post

    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.
    President Xi, I would like to be nerve-stapled like this so I never bring up the 1990s shock therapy and privatization spree again. I'm tired of doing it
    See the problem was the people running the liberali/privatization, if only they were not capitali- oh wait

    The chief engineer of it was a Swede, somehow im not totally convinced he had your best in mind....
    Its true. Swedes have been seething for three straight centuries after losing that podunk empire of theirs

  18. #17538

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.
    No, I am pretty confident he knows that.

    Somehow, amazingly, it doesn't make capitalism great.

    More than one thing can be true at the same time, I know some of you people struggle with this staggering concept.

    And since we're dunking on people's countries all smug like implying people can't complain or criticize if they come from "a shithole":

    https://www.latimes.com/california/s...n-affluent-l-a

    A California program intended to improve COVID-19 vaccine availability to people in hard-hit communities of color is being misused by outsiders who are grabbing appointments reserved for residents of underserved Black and Latino areas.

    The program to address inequities in vaccine distribution relies on special access codes that enable people to make appointments on the My Turn vaccine scheduling website. The codes are provided to community organizations to distribute to people in largely Black and Latino communities.

    But those codes have also been circulating, in group texts and messages, among the wealthier, work-from-home set in Los Angeles, The Times has learned. Many of those people are not yet eligible for the vaccine under state rules.

    Some people able to make appointments have been driving to Cal State Los Angeles to get the shots.
    Last edited by Isyel; February 23 2021 at 06:00:35 AM.

  19. #17539
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Not sarcasm. It seems Venec's problems are more due to Poland's historical conditions such as the USSR occupation rather than to capitalism. If you look at the specific details of his wishlist, you can already get that in any Western country.
    People tried explaining to him that his country is a shithole because of the people that run the system rather then the system a bunch of pages ago but it didnt click.
    And yet non of those things he asked for require the existence of a billionaire oligarchic class or the structures which specifically enable them to exploit society.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  20. #17540
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zibu View Post
    Going away from the utopian society discussion, and back to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Not sure if it's been linked, but have a sense of Trump's paranoia and pettiness: https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/0...ht-wing-elite/
    From that article:
    Trump always had the same thing: shrimp cocktail, well-done steak, and fries
    Isn't that like the greatest disrespect to the chef, the cow and even the rancher that raised that cow?
    How did Trump win any of the cow farming states with a diet like that? Or did they not make it public?
    American boomers have no taste.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

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