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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #9841
    Kai's Avatar
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    Honestly, increasing the amount of states isn't an unreasonable answer. So New York City and New York State as two separate states, as one example. Do this alongside changes that prevent gerrymandering.

    I've been reading some interesting articles about how that could benefit Australia's similar Federal / State / Local set up.

  2. #9842
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    There is little to no interest in doing that here. I mean we fuck over Puerto Rico as a whole nation letting citizens be treated like we shit on the rest of the world. They should be a state, and D.C needs to be sorted out. I think splittling any higher population states up, like Texas or California or New York, will still always result in Democratic gains here, each state would probably have to be split into roughly equal population sizes to not fuck over their economies and representation.

  3. #9843
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Honestly, increasing the amount of states isn't an unreasonable answer. So New York City and New York State as two separate states, as one example. Do this alongside changes that prevent gerrymandering.

    I've been reading some interesting articles about how that could benefit Australia's similar Federal / State / Local set up.
    How about just straight up popular vote? :thonk:

  4. #9844
    Kai's Avatar
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    Because some of the complaints about a straight popular vote are legitimate. The intent of the republican system where power isn't distributed purely by population has some value behind it. The issue is the degree to which it's distorted.

  5. #9845
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Urban elites dominate rural salt of the earth folks something something. . . .
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  6. #9846

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    Well you have the entire senate to balance that. Should be more than enough

  7. #9847
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Because some of the complaints about a straight popular vote are legitimate. The intent of the republican system where power isn't distributed purely by population has some value behind it. The issue is the degree to which it's distorted.
    I'd argue that FPTP is so incredibly broken that almost any voting system is a massive improvement, even if it isn't perfect (none of them are). Besides, it's not like tons of other countries haven't solved this already for ages.

  8. #9848
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    It is interesting to see how different the political culture becomes in countries without fptp when parties are forced to compromise and work together to form coalitions. It isn't perfect but it does generally seem to lead to more positive policy outcomes and increased public trust.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  9. #9849
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Because some of the complaints about a straight popular vote are legitimate. The intent of the republican system where power isn't distributed purely by population has some value behind it. The issue is the degree to which it's distorted.
    I'd argue that FPTP is so incredibly broken that almost any voting system is a massive improvement, even if it isn't perfect (none of them are). Besides, it's not like tons of other countries haven't solved this already for ages.
    You're conflating a voting system with an electoral system.

    In the US I'd argue both need reform.

    I like our solution where the votes in each state are assigned proportionally across 12 seats per state. It provides a useful check on large majorities in the lower house while preserving a degree of balance of power between states in the commonwealth.

    This is in comparison to the lower house where each seat is, very roughly, voted on by the same number of electors.

    It is, however, increasingly skewed and sometime this century will become can issue. The intent of the framers of our constitution was that new states would be created over time to reflect our growing population.

  10. #9850
    Liare's Avatar
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    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  11. #9851
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post


  12. #9852
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Your gut reaction is spewing the same shit people on Fox News spew out.
    And your gut reaction is to always attack me personally as FHC's "Right Wing Boogieman".

    It's always telling that you don't see that the majority should I have representation equal to their votes.
    Oh, but I do. You just choose to hear what you want to hear.

    If I had Godlike powers, the U.S. electoral system (at the the Federal and Statewide levels at minimum) would be more similar to the German Sie haben 2 stimmen system, with two votes, one for a person one for a party, with proportional allotment systems and ranked voting all implemented.

    So get off it mate, I'm not Rush Limbaugh ffs. Go jerk off Meester or something.
    Crying about coastal elite cities as if they are the bane of the rural areas, and not the place where most people live is Fox News style bullshit. Saying Keckers wants a liberal city council to elect things is the hyberbole garbage you love throwing around whenever your point makes zero sense. If I had a choice you'd stop playing centrist then saying later "oh but I am rather progressive". I know a fair number of people have short memories but you were the guy saying Ford was possibly making claims against now Supreme Justice Kavanaugh for monetary gains. That shit is Fox News level dumb. A lot of your stances are like that. You are willing to say outlandish shit then backpedal and "oh but I'm really for reason I just think YOU are crazy". It's a tired game, centrism is useless, if you want to be something don't flip flop every time you realize your arguement is weak.
    Your ponderous and repetative straw man "YOU'RE REALLY A SECRET FOX NEWSERS RIGHTY TRUMPIST AREN'T YOU!!" obsession is seriously boring at this stage. There is no flip flop. There is no backpedal. There is no secret Fox News agenda to corrupt the pure lefty souls of FHC. If you're tired of me, put me on ignore. We'll likely both be happier.


  13. #9853
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Honestly, increasing the amount of states isn't an unreasonable answer. So New York City and New York State as two separate states, as one example. Do this alongside changes that prevent gerrymandering.

    I've been reading some interesting articles about how that could benefit Australia's similar Federal / State / Local set up.
    Long Island (including NYC) has long at times pondered it's own Statehood. Same as DC. Northern Virginia has thought about it. California has a number of break-up concepts out there. You could make 60-70 States of sorta equal numbers out there if you tried.


  14. #9854
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Because some of the complaints about a straight popular vote are legitimate. The intent of the republican system where power isn't distributed purely by population has some value behind it. The issue is the degree to which it's distorted.
    Compared to the "I'm worth 8.7x less than someone from Wyoming" 17th century bullshit system we have now, yes, it would be much better.

    I'll remind you that the senators who voted to impeach Trump represented 17 million more people than those that didn't.

    Its fucking stupid, and its outlived the point where it was useful to make racists feel equal, and we don't need that feature anymore.

    To the point I'm going to leave, as soon as global travel allow. Not a cent more of my labor will go to support racist cunts.
    meh

  15. #9855
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Your gut reaction is spewing the same shit people on Fox News spew out.
    And your gut reaction is to always attack me personally as FHC's "Right Wing Boogieman".

    It's always telling that you don't see that the majority should I have representation equal to their votes.
    Oh, but I do. You just choose to hear what you want to hear.

    If I had Godlike powers, the U.S. electoral system (at the the Federal and Statewide levels at minimum) would be more similar to the German Sie haben 2 stimmen system, with two votes, one for a person one for a party, with proportional allotment systems and ranked voting all implemented.

    So get off it mate, I'm not Rush Limbaugh ffs. Go jerk off Meester or something.
    Crying about coastal elite cities as if they are the bane of the rural areas, and not the place where most people live is Fox News style bullshit. Saying Keckers wants a liberal city council to elect things is the hyberbole garbage you love throwing around whenever your point makes zero sense. If I had a choice you'd stop playing centrist then saying later "oh but I am rather progressive". I know a fair number of people have short memories but you were the guy saying Ford was possibly making claims against now Supreme Justice Kavanaugh for monetary gains. That shit is Fox News level dumb. A lot of your stances are like that. You are willing to say outlandish shit then backpedal and "oh but I'm really for reason I just think YOU are crazy". It's a tired game, centrism is useless, if you want to be something don't flip flop every time you realize your arguement is weak.
    Your ponderous and repetative straw man "YOU'RE REALLY A SECRET FOX NEWSERS RIGHTY TRUMPIST AREN'T YOU!!" obsession is seriously boring at this stage. There is no flip flop. There is no backpedal. There is no secret Fox News agenda to corrupt the pure lefty souls of FHC. If you're tired of me, put me on ignore. We'll likely both be happier.
    It's ok you can't answer a single argument with a response that makes sense, I get it.

  16. #9856
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    500 IQ post right there
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  17. #9857

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    https://www.thelily.com/i-had-to-cho...the-workforce/

    unemployed dude couldnt last watching kids for 3 days, woman leaves job and her employees are fucked

    grand times

    If day cares closed because of the novel coronavirus, Aimee Rae Hannaford expected her family to fare better than most. She worked full time as the chief executive of a tech company while her husband stayed home. He’d been taking some time off from his own tech career, managing a rental property while considering his options. He could look after their 3-year-old son, she thought — at least for a while.

    “That lasted a grand total of three days,” Hannaford said.

  18. #9858
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    https://www.thelily.com/i-had-to-cho...the-workforce/

    unemployed dude couldnt last watching kids for 3 days, woman leaves job and her employees are fucked

    grand times

    If day cares closed because of the novel coronavirus, Aimee Rae Hannaford expected her family to fare better than most. She worked full time as the chief executive of a tech company while her husband stayed home. He’d been taking some time off from his own tech career, managing a rental property while considering his options. He could look after their 3-year-old son, she thought — at least for a while.

    “That lasted a grand total of three days,” Hannaford said.
    Add it to the list of bullshit people will excuse as normal. The part where she wasn't even sure he'd do it if she asked him to, or wasn't sure if he was capable is fucking mindblowing.

  19. #9859
    mewninn's Avatar
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  20. #9860

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    How is it possible to be so right and so fucking wrong at the exact same time?
    Quarantined and loving life.

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