The Dark Knight Rises

[Aramendel]

Don't try and apply rational argument to the gun control argument in America it won't work and just end in you banging your head against the nearest brick wall.

Gun control is a load of bollocks anyway, look at the laws we have in the UK and it seems like the only people not to have guns are the law abiding majority, where as all the crims seem to have them..

Pretty much, it might help in some situations where the lazy nut jobs can't be arsed to find a dodgy gun, but otherwise if someone wants one to massacre 20 people or hold up a bank they will get one no matter what laws you have in place.

Don't want to start a gun control sperging, so I won't comment on this further, but that argument is bullocks.

Sure, if you really really really want to kill a bunch of people you can get guns even in "safe countries". Hell, at worst if it would be literary impossible to get guns you could go to the supermarket and buy fertilizer and stuff to make a do-it-yourself-50-virgins-in-paradise-kit.

However, a lot of such incidents are essentially cases of "temporary insanity" which can pass. It is a bit like with suicides, suicide rates go down when it is not that easy to get "fire & forget" suicide methods like various pills. And, surprise, we also have fewer homicidal mass murder cases per population in countries with gun control. The point isn't to make abusing one impossible because that in itself is impossible, but to make it harder. The effect of :effort: not only applies to cleaning up your room, but also to murdering everyone near you.

[Me]

Because a document written in the 1700s says they can. Nothing has changed in the last 200+ years so there's no need to change those laws.

really need a but for :america:

[JForce]

Wouldn't have happened if Batman was real

[Miriam Sasko]

But I can tell you one thing for sure: Should Nolan decide to make another one after all, and should he call me to ask if I want to play in it - I'd not be home.

Seriously, first Heath Ledger, now this. What is wrong with Batman movies?

[Mortvvs]

Batman arriving on the scene and helping the police http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7sIi...tailpage#t=65s

[Traxio Nacho]

One report mentioned the attacker was wearing the mask bane has on his mouth, then again could have been a gas mask.

I hear what you're saying Aramendel, however I wonder how many of the shootings that happen that aren't gang/criminals shooting other criminals related are spare of the moment insanity and how many like Brevik, Columbine/Virginia were plan quite some time in advance.

[Warpath]

One report mentioned the attacker was wearing the mask bane has on his mouth, then again could have been a gas mask.

He was wearing a gas mask, some reports say he threw a smoke canister into the cinema, others say it was a tear gas canister.

[jonesbones]

Absolute tragedy, another reason to carry concealed everywhere.

Yes. I'm sure your heroic skills would have saved the day in a dark, crowded movie theater ripe with panic caused by a heavily armed/armored gunman.

Or maybe I should extrapolate your statement and say, "Absolute tragedy, another reason to carry concealed, wear body armor and a gas mask everywhere."

[Tajidan]

Absolute tragedy, another reason to carry concealed everywhere.

Yes. I'm sure your heroic skills would have saved the day in a dark, crowded movie theater ripe with panic caused by a heavily armed/armored gunman.

Or maybe I should extrapolate your statement and say, "Absolute tragedy, another reason to carry concealed, wear body armor and a gas mask everywhere."

another reason to not go to the theatres anymore, or leave home. why even live if you can get shot down everyday better kill myself now

[Aramendel]

I hear what you're saying Aramendel, however I wonder how many of the shootings that happen that aren't gang/criminals shooting other criminals related are spare of the moment insanity and how many like Brevik, Columbine/Virginia were plan quite some time in advance.

One broken promise coming up... Last one though.

More than you think. The point is that doing such stuff usually isn't rational. By forcing people to do a bit of rational thinking (i.e. by having to circumvent gun laws enough to obtain a gun) you give them time to come to their senses.

As said, just compare the rate of killing sprees per population unit in the US to that in countries with gun control. Either the "loonie" factor of US citizens is inherently higher (I mean, 50% *did* vote for Bushs 2nd term after all) or easy access to devices which can quickly kill a lot of people promotes their spontaneous use.

[Tajidan]

I hear what you're saying Aramendel, however I wonder how many of the shootings that happen that aren't gang/criminals shooting other criminals related are spare of the moment insanity and how many like Brevik, Columbine/Virginia were plan quite some time in advance.

One broken promise coming up... Last one though.

More than you think. The point is that doing such stuff usually isn't rational. By forcing people to do a bit of rational thinking (i.e. by having to circumvent gun laws enough to obtain a gun) you give them time to come to their senses.

As said, just compare the rate of killing sprees per population unit in the US to that in countries with gun control. Either the "loonie" factor of US citizens is inherently higher (I mean, 50% *did* vote for Bushs 2nd term after all) or easy access to devices which can quickly kill a lot of people promotes their spontaneous use.

Here in switzerland almost every 2nd houshold has a military issue SIG SG 50 at home, most of them with ammo. Because the russians could come every moment, right?
As a result we have one of the highest killing ratios with guns in whole europe and lo and behold most of the murders happening here involve some kind of military issue weapon.

If guns wouldnt be so easily reachable those killings would inherently go down as its not that easy to kill people with your hands or a knife. On the other hand i doubt that something like a Uttoya or this asshole in Aurora could be prevented as those are usually planned and exercised with great determination.

[Alistair]

Horrific.

But the idea that someone who has decided (or broken with reality) to kill as many people as possible will be entirely put off from that massive law breaking by the fact that guns are illegal....is a bit of an illogical argument. Oh, guns are illegal, so I'd have to break the Law to get one in order to shoot 65 people? Oh, hell no, I'm not breaking THAT Law.

Take away the guns, and events like this will be what they are in other parts of the world. Bombs instead. Then what, take away everyones chemicals and stop teaching chemistry is school?

The problem is the person, not the tool.

[Traxio Nacho]

I hear what you're saying Aramendel, however I wonder how many of the shootings that happen that aren't gang/criminals shooting other criminals related are spare of the moment insanity and how many like Brevik, Columbine/Virginia were plan quite some time in advance.

One broken promise coming up... Last one though.

More than you think. The point is that doing such stuff usually isn't rational. By forcing people to do a bit of rational thinking (i.e. by having to circumvent gun laws enough to obtain a gun) you give them time to come to their senses.

As said, just compare the rate of killing sprees per population unit in the US to that in countries with gun control. Either the "loonie" factor of US citizens is inherently higher (I mean, 50% *did* vote for Bushs 2nd term after all) or easy access to devices which can quickly kill a lot of people promotes their spontaneous use.

Here in switzerland almost every 2nd houshold has a military issue SIG SG 50 at home, most of them with ammo. Because the russians could come every moment, right?
As a result we have one of the highest killing ratios with guns in whole europe and lo and behold most of the murders happening here involve some kind of military issue weapon.

If guns wouldnt be so easily reachable those killings would inherently go down as its not that easy to kill people with your hands or a knife. On the other hand i doubt that something like a Uttoya or this asshole in Aurora could be prevented as those are usually planned and exercised with great determination.

I guess its one person killing another rather than a killing spree? Just can't remember Switzerland being in the news due to shootings.

[filingo]

Horrific.

But the idea that someone who has decided (or broken with reality) to kill as many people as possible will be entirely put off from that massive law breaking by the fact that guns are illegal....is a bit of an illogical argument. Oh, guns are illegal, so I'd have to break the Law to get one in order to shoot 65 people? Oh, hell no, I'm not breaking THAT Law.

Take away the guns, and events like this will be what they are in other parts of the world. Bombs instead. Then what, take away everyones chemicals and stop teaching chemistry is school?

The problem is the person, not the tool.

strawman posting is cool mang

[Traxio Nacho]

Horrific.

But the idea that someone who has decided (or broken with reality) to kill as many people as possible will be entirely put off from that massive law breaking by the fact that guns are illegal....is a bit of an illogical argument. Oh, guns are illegal, so I'd have to break the Law to get one in order to shoot 65 people? Oh, hell no, I'm not breaking THAT Law.

Take away the guns, and events like this will be what they are in other parts of the world. Bombs instead. Then what, take away everyones chemicals and stop teaching chemistry is school?

The problem is the person, not the tool.

Guns don't kill people, rappers do people kill people.

I think the point is with some people in a fit of rage/insanity might pick up their weapon and go killing if they had it to hand, whereas if guns weren't allowed even with a licence they might not bother or calm down before going out and finding a weapon. My point was many of the killing sprees are carried out by people that have carefully planned weeks/months or years in advanced so sourcing a weapon wouldn't exactly be a problem. (unless in some crazy peaceful world only law enforcement/military had guns)

[Nicho Void]

Horrific.

But the idea that someone who has decided (or broken with reality) to kill as many people as possible will be entirely put off from that massive law breaking by the fact that guns are illegal....is a bit of an illogical argument. Oh, guns are illegal, so I'd have to break the Law to get one in order to shoot 65 people? Oh, hell no, I'm not breaking THAT Law.

Take away the guns, and events like this will be what they are in other parts of the world. Bombs instead. Then what, take away everyones chemicals and stop teaching chemistry is school?

The problem is the person, not the tool.

strawman posting is cool mang

Calling opposing viewpoints straw man to avoid the issues he raises is so FHC.

[Tajidan]

I hear what you're saying Aramendel, however I wonder how many of the shootings that happen that aren't gang/criminals shooting other criminals related are spare of the moment insanity and how many like Brevik, Columbine/Virginia were plan quite some time in advance.

One broken promise coming up... Last one though.

More than you think. The point is that doing such stuff usually isn't rational. By forcing people to do a bit of rational thinking (i.e. by having to circumvent gun laws enough to obtain a gun) you give them time to come to their senses.

As said, just compare the rate of killing sprees per population unit in the US to that in countries with gun control. Either the "loonie" factor of US citizens is inherently higher (I mean, 50% *did* vote for Bushs 2nd term after all) or easy access to devices which can quickly kill a lot of people promotes their spontaneous use.

Here in switzerland almost every 2nd houshold has a military issue SIG SG 50 at home, most of them with ammo. Because the russians could come every moment, right?
As a result we have one of the highest killing ratios with guns in whole europe and lo and behold most of the murders happening here involve some kind of military issue weapon.

If guns wouldnt be so easily reachable those killings would inherently go down as its not that easy to kill people with your hands or a knife. On the other hand i doubt that something like a Uttoya or this asshole in Aurora could be prevented as those are usually planned and exercised with great determination.

I guess its one person killing another rather than a killing spree? Just can't remember Switzerland being in the news due to shootings.

Yes, its not really shootings like those that we have. There was a small incident that is comparable a few years ago where a recruit took his gear to a small hill and shot people at a bus station killing a girl and injuring some others. Most of the times though, its people killing a specific other person because of a fight they had or whatever personal reasons which are the ones i'm referring to being most likely avoidable if there wouldn't be any guns handy as it would force them to think again if they really want to get the knife or the axe whatevs.

[cullnean]

came to read about batman left dissapointed.

[Al Simmons]

So like, did anyone see the fucking movie? Am gonna go see it tonight.

[Aramendel]

Calling opposing viewpoints straw man to avoid the issues he raises is so FHC.

Not understanding why something is a strawman is so Nicho Void.

I think the point is with some people in a fit of rage/insanity might pick up their weapon and go killing if they had it to hand, whereas if guns weren't allowed even with a licence they might not bother or calm down before going out and finding a weapon.

Exactly. It is not "not wanting to break the law" which stops them, it is the effect of the law. Even if money is no factor getting something which is not legal in your country takes more effort and time than something which is legal.

My point was many of the killing sprees are carried out by people that have carefully planned weeks/months or years in advanced so sourcing a weapon wouldn't exactly be a problem. (unless in some crazy peaceful world only law enforcement/military had guns)

For which my answers was that if the majority of the killing sprees would be a rational planned thing (which is IMO already contradicted by most of those killers trying (and often succeeding) in killing themselves afterwards - that isn't something you plan rationally) then this would mean that people in the US are far more often batshit-crazy. Because they have a considerably higher-than-average chance of non-crime-related gun kills, so if guns are not the reason this only leaves the people...