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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #5801

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Those cases have little to do with austerity. It's much more akin to the hostile environment policies at HO. Bundle them together at your peril.
    They are part and parcel of austerity.
    No they're not. Austerity doesn't figure hugely at DWP. Working age benefit payments are still increasing in absolute terms and DWP has a blank cheque to deliver UC. Compared to local government (aka essential social care) being slashed by 60% and frontline policing numbers falling by something like 25,000 it's nothing.

    You could throw all the money at the world at the department and that wouldn't change the reality of its policies. They've been crafted based around a political decision that benefits claimants are unworthy subhumans who should be subject to scrutiny at all stages. Provision of benefits should be the exception, not the norm, regardless of a person's situation. That is not an austerity-driven departmental decision, it's a political one set at the top. I suspect when you're saying "austerity" you really mean "nasty right wing tories who think the poor and sick should all just die", but you should really try and say that.

    Of course that means you then don't get to call people in your own political child murderers by saying they support austerity, but avoiding that is probably for the best as well.
    Where have you been for the last decade?

    Austerity is the means by which the Tories get to justify their ideology.
    Last edited by Rodj Blake; April 23 2019 at 01:42:04 PM.

  2. #5802

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    Except for the bit where at DWP they've done the opposite, by making a song and dance of protecting the absolute increase in benefit payments. Which is what anyone would say as soon as you try and label DWP's actions the work of austerity.

    Attack austerity as a blind, populist, self-defeating policy. Don't try and label unrelated policies as "austerity" because people will just dismiss you as a simpleton parrot of someone else's ideology. Do you think there would have been such a backlash against the hostile environment policy if it the fight against it had just been some more anti-austerity placards waving around westminster?

    At the best of times it's a meaningless term, which is why (as you've said) the tories sometimes use it as a shield. Never, ever use their own language because you will have already failed. In this case it's not only accepting their language, it's applying it in the wrong place.

  3. #5803
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I suspect when you're saying "austerity" you really mean "nasty right wing tories who think the poor and sick should all just die", but you should really try and say that.
    What's the difference? It's all class war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  4. #5804

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    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.

  5. #5805
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.
    Maybe use "Class Differences" "The class divide" or "Socio economic class/divides" instead of "Class war"?

  6. #5806
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.
    Maybe use "Class Differences" "The class divide" or "Socio economic class/divides" instead of "Class war"?
    Nah then we’d be called liberal scum.

  7. #5807
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Hostile environment is also a term coined by the Tories.

    So austerity is inapplicable and owned by the Tories.

    Class warfare is toxic because of it's far left ownership.

    And we can't use hostile environment either, because that too is owned by the Tories.

    What can we call it then?

    Despicable? It surely is applicable! (and that rhymes!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  8. #5808
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.
    Maybe use "Class Differences" "The class divide" or "Socio economic class/divides" instead of "Class war"?
    Nah then we’d be called liberal scum.
    Because the right has been allowed to turn that toxic as well ... sigh ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  9. #5809

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Hostile environment is also a term coined by the Tories.
    And until it was called the "windrush scandal", illustrating that it was sheer, unbridled racism against a valued and fondly thought of section of society, no one gave a toss. May gave speeches praising the deport first and ask questions nature of the hostile environment to rapturous acclaim as far back as 2012.

    What can we call it then?
    In DWP's case you wouldn't be far wrong calling it organised murder. Just don't call it austerity, because it isn't.

  10. #5810

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Because the right has been allowed to turn that toxic as well ... sigh ...
    In more recent times you're as likely to get abused as a child murdering austerity supporting liberal from the left than the right.

  11. #5811

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.
    Maybe use "Class Differences" "The class divide" or "Socio economic class/divides" instead of "Class war"?
    It's not a divide though. It is the deliberate abuse of political and economic power by a governing elite to impose their own view of how people should behave onto society with no regard for the consequences. It is intentional and blind aggression.

  12. #5812
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Ah Helgur has banned me from discord for discussing smarnca.

    I think i'm done with this forum, later guys!

  13. #5813
    Donor Rami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Ah Helgur has banned me from discord for discussing smarnca.

    I think i'm done with this forum, later guys!
    Bye! Don't harm the door on the way out thanks.

  14. #5814
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Scandinavian nazi collaborators are at it again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #5815

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.

    “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

    ― Warren Buffett

  16. #5816

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Calling it class war is probably more accurate, but I think you already know how seriously normal people are going to take you if you start ranting and raving about that.
    Maybe use "Class Differences" "The class divide" or "Socio economic class/divides" instead of "Class war"?
    It's not a divide though. It is the deliberate abuse of political and economic power by a governing elite to impose their own view of how people should behave onto society with no regard for the consequences. It is intentional and blind aggression.
    You do love debating utterly pointless semantics all the time and immediately diluting any argument into that worthless noise with a mix of REEE LEFTIES huh.

    How wonderfully centrist of you.

    So much for "centrists fighting while others just argue" as a certain someone comically stated a while ago.

    And then you wonder why the right keeps winning all the time, truly, I wonder why.

  17. #5817

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    "intentional and blind aggression by a governing elite" is centrism? are you on actual crack?

  18. #5818
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    "intentional and blind aggression by a governing elite" is centrism? are you on actual crack?
    Centrism is basically aggravated nazism, haven't you heard?
    meh

  19. #5819
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    Shouting down solidarity in the face of reality is the biggest sin of centrism. I'm not sure elmicker is guilty of that, but you don't often see him calling for solidarity as a solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  20. #5820

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Shouting down solidarity in the face of reality is the biggest sin of centrism. I'm not sure elmicker is guilty of that, but you don't often see him calling for solidarity as a solution.
    Because solidarity is what champagne lefties like to trot out on a sunny weekend march in London before they fuck off back to their big house and two cars. It's a meaningless word, not a solution.

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