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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #19521
    tulip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    The BBC TERF wars continue. Not reposting the origional article as it's dogshit, but here's a nice measured response.

    https://openletter.earth/an-open-let...ridge-9223a3ca
    The article in question is this one. Certainly seems a bit under subscribed on the survey but it's not like that's the entire body of the article.

    Posting a rebuttal article that itself concentrates on fair reporting standards whilst simultaneously refusing to reference the actual article is a little ironic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    Just for the record, "sending a needy text" is never the right answer.

  2. #19522

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    I'm not sure how cutting tax on internal flights fits with the sustainable agenda?

  3. #19523
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    I fail to see how anyone can possibly spin this as a rebuilding budget unless everyone is far stupider than I thought and think big tech is going to deliver some form of utopia.

    I look forward to the press's continuing hagiography of Super Rishi, at least I'll probably learn some new things to make me even more cynical.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  4. #19524

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    The whole (original) article is absolutely batshit insane. I twas pulled from the front page pretty quickly but still exists. Pretty sickening tbh. Even brexitMongs get better than this.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  5. #19525

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    The BBC TERF wars continue. Not reposting the origional article as it's dogshit, but here's a nice measured response.

    https://openletter.earth/an-open-let...ridge-9223a3ca
    The article in question is this one. Certainly seems a bit under subscribed on the survey but it's not like that's the entire body of the article.

    Posting a rebuttal article that itself concentrates on fair reporting standards whilst simultaneously refusing to reference the actual article is a little ironic?
    for the same reason i don't post links to daily mail articles - driving traffic towards clickbait = bad. Anway - It's linked in the fucking rebuttal you mong. Not exactly hard to find.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  6. #19526

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    The BBC TERF wars continue. Not reposting the origional article as it's dogshit, but here's a nice measured response.

    https://openletter.earth/an-open-let...ridge-9223a3ca
    It turns out one of the TERF cis women in the article has been accused of rape.

  7. #19527

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Aren't multiple EU nations building new coal power stations or is Germany just tearing down old growth forest to supply coal to existing power stations?
    It is not possible to build new coal power plants in the EU or UK due to emissions regulations. Germany still has coal (dirty lignite) mines but these are shuttering one by one. The exception that you are likely referring to, Hambach mine./forest, but the government passed a law ending that mine expansion in 2020 (and it had not previously expanded since 2018)
    https://www.powermag.com/germany-bri...-plant-online/

  8. #19528
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    every nation is doing terribly, China, significantly less so.
    China and India are still building new coal plants, approx 50GW and 10GW a year respectively. In September 2021, thermal power generation in China hit an all time record high.

    In 2019 China had 83 operational coal plants, India had 15, and THE REST OF THE WORLD PUT TOGETHER had 47

    I love how tankies have switched from "USSR is just misunderstood" to "China is just misunderstood".

    Even the facile "poor countries need an opportunity to grow before they can be expected to meet western standards" bullshit arguments dont really work in this context. China has more emissions/person in its power generation than any western country EVER has.

    Coal commodity prices are currently a record high due to...wait for it.... unprecedented demand in China.

    You tankies' shitty takes are based on ideology and narrative not data.
    While your relative numbers arent that off (china has 50% of coal power generation in the world) absolutely they are completely off.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/


    

  9. #19529
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    every nation is doing terribly, China, significantly less so.
    China and India are still building new coal plants, approx 50GW and 10GW a year respectively. In September 2021, thermal power generation in China hit an all time record high.

    In 2019 China had 83 operational coal plants, India had 15, and THE REST OF THE WORLD PUT TOGETHER had 47

    I love how tankies have switched from "USSR is just misunderstood" to "China is just misunderstood".

    Even the facile "poor countries need an opportunity to grow before they can be expected to meet western standards" bullshit arguments dont really work in this context. China has more emissions/person in its power generation than any western country EVER has.

    Coal commodity prices are currently a record high due to...wait for it.... unprecedented demand in China.

    You tankies' shitty takes are based on ideology and narrative not data.
    While your relative numbers arent that off (china has 50% of coal power generation in the world) absolutely they are completely off.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/
    paywall, please elaborate

  10. #19530
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Mainland China has the greatest number of coal-fired power stations of any nation in the world. As of 2021, there were 1,082 operational coal power plants in the country. This was nearly four times the number of such power stations in India, which ranked second. China accounts for over 50 percent of the total global coal electricity generation.
    I could access it yesterday np now its behind a paywall. Odd.

    Also for example USA has 240 even Germany still has close to 50 operational power plants iirc.
    Last edited by Zeekar; October 28 2021 at 10:04:20 AM.


    

  11. #19531
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Looking at it again it looks like I may have mixed up my numbers for operational vs commissioned that year, same point tho, China is building 30% more than the entire rest of world put together, something that mere population doesnt remotely justify.

    Another relevant statistic is that China produces 3.3mwh of power from coal a year PER PERSON in its population (and this number is growing fast). At peak (2012ish), the UK produced less than 2/3 of this per person and it has since declined dramatically to almost nothing. The UK built its last coal powered turbine in 1986 to give you an idea of lead time on peak production.
    Last edited by Lallante; October 28 2021 at 10:24:54 AM.

  12. #19532
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It looks like I may have mixed up my numbers for operational vs commissioned that year, same point tho
    Yes missing the numbers by an order or two of magnitude is completely the same.


    

  13. #19533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It looks like I may have mixed up my numbers for operational vs commissioned that year, same point tho
    Yes missing the numbers by an order or two of magnitude is completely the same.
    par for the course for people negotiating energy deals in the UK

    Lall having an absolute Hinkley here

  14. #19534
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It looks like I may have mixed up my numbers for operational vs commissioned that year, same point tho
    Yes missing the numbers by an order or two of magnitude is completely the same.
    Since the point was about relative magnitude China vs Rest, which remains correct both in the 'new capacity' numbers AND the 'all operational capacity' numbers, this is unironically correct. Changing the word 'had' to 'brought online' doesnt change the sentiment or point whatsoever.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/

    Another relevant statistic is that China produces 3.3mwh of power from coal a year PER PERSON in its population (and this number is growing fast). At peak (2012ish), the UK produced less than 2/3 of this per person and it has since declined dramatically to almost nothing. The UK built its last coal powered turbine in 1986 to give you an idea of lead time on peak production. China is not predicted to stop building coal plants in the next decade.
    Last edited by Lallante; October 28 2021 at 10:31:29 AM.

  15. #19535
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    China accounts for around 30% of global manufacturing output though. The UK accounts for less than 2%.

    Also relevant

    Last edited by Duckslayer; October 28 2021 at 10:45:14 AM.

  16. #19536
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    Sluggish exports: the ‘worrying trend’ in the UK economy
    British businesses are struggling to attract overseas markets following Brexit and as the pandemic eases
    https://www.ft.com/content/beec0a22-...1-a549d6324b86

    Britain’s export performance is slipping behind other developed countries as the world recovers from the coronavirus pandemic, exposing what some economists are calling the “most worrying trend” in the UK economy. As chancellor Rishi Sunak celebrates sharp upgrades in growth forecasts within his Budget, trade data suggest that deep problems in UK businesses’ ability to attract foreign customers have emerged since Brexit. By August, global goods trade had rebounded strongly and international statistics showed that export volumes were well above pre-pandemic levels across advanced economies, according to the CPB world trade monitor. But the UK was an exception as its exports were still down sharply on pre-pandemic levels.

    Jonathan Portes, professor of economics at King’s College London, said UK export performance “has really been quite poor” compared with peer countries and relative to the wider UK economy, which has nearly recovered to pre-pandemic levels. This is possibly “the single most worrying thing about post-Brexit, post-pandemic developments in the UK economy . . . because it’s UK specific, unlike inflation, energy prices and so on”.



    In the three months to August, exports of UK goods were down 13 per cent compared with the same period in 2019, while services were down 14 per cent. UK trade data are inconsistent, with many different measures and distortions. But UK exports dropped by a similar amount after adjusting for inflation, the exclusion of volatile precious metals, or looking at the longer period of the 12 months to August. The UK is also bottom of most advanced economies when looking at exports over the past six years, both with regard to only goods or combined with services. Reduced exports to the EU — which in 2019 accounted for 46 per cent of UK goods exports — are not the only culprit of the UK’s underperformance. In the three months to August, UK exports to non-EU countries fell by more than 20 per cent compared with the same period in 2019 — four times the decline of exports to EU countries. However, this reflects the surge in UK exports to non-EU countries in the second half of 2019, before the initial Brexit deadline. The difference disappears when comparing the figures with the three months to August 2018, with real exports to both the EU and non-EU countries falling by about 13 per cent. This is partially because UK trade data have been volatile and complicated by a change in the way the Office for National Statistics records exports, which moved from the EU’s system to a customs declaration basis on January 1. UK exports to EU countries also show large variations across destinations, with strong expansions in countries with important ports such as the Netherlands, Belgium and Ireland. In contrast, UK exports to Germany were down nearly 20 per cent in the three months to August compared with the same period in 2019. But overall, there is little doubt that “UK trade growth has been sluggish this year”, according to Thomas Sampson, associate professor of economics at the London School of Economics.

    “Supply disruption associated with both Covid and Brexit has weighed on UK competitiveness in general, not just on trade flows with the EU,” said Benjamin Nabarro, senior associate at Citi Research. He added that UK trade weakness was also consistent with low investment during the post-referendum period, while there was also “longstanding evidence of EU clients pivoting away from UK suppliers”. Michael Gasiorek, professor of economics at Sussex university, said possible reasons for UK trade not recovering as strongly as other countries could include “slower UK economic growth, due to Brexit”. The underperformance could also be driven “by uncertainty, by lack of access to workers, supply chain complications, shipping costs etc, some of which may be Brexit and some Covid related”, he added. The result is that the UK is effectively losing global export share, according to Gabriella Dickens, senior UK economist at consultancy Pantheon Macroeconomics.

    This is visible in the imports of many partner countries. Germany registered a sharp annual fall in imports from the UK in August, in contrast with expanding imports from other countries. Preliminary data show a further contraction in September and British goods now account for less than 3 per cent of German imports — the lowest proportion on record. In the year to August, Italy and Malaysia overtook the UK in the US imports chart by value, compared with the same period last year. Chinese imports from the UK were down 3 per cent in September compared with the same month in 2019, in contrast with a double-digit expansion for all the other G7 countries, according to national statistics.

    A reduction in demand for UK exports means “smaller order books leading to downward pressure on profits, jobs and ultimately gross domestic product”, said Kitty Ussher, chief economist at the Institute of Directors. Government business surveys confirm that UK exporters are facing myriad challenges, from additional paperwork and customs duties to rising transport costs and disruption at borders. Nearly half of businesses surveyed by the ONS link these disruptions to the end of the EU transition period on January 1 and Brexit-related uncertainty does not show signs of easing, according to data tracked by the Bank of England.

    Some economists have warned that the outlook for UK trade remained uncertain. Gasiorek did not see “sufficient opportunities to liberalise trade with third countries that can compensate for the rise in trade barriers with the EU”. This was particularly true because the US, the UK’s biggest non-EU trading partner, was not pursuing any new trade deals, noted Sophie Hale, an economist at the Resolution Foundation think-tank. Nabarro said that the UK government’s “adversarial approach” to relations with the EU over fishing, vaccines and Northern Ireland suggested “major uncertainty” about the sustainability of the EU-UK post-Brexit trade deal and left “little chance of it becoming a basis for new bilateral agreements”.

  17. #19537
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It looks like I may have mixed up my numbers for operational vs commissioned that year, same point tho
    Yes missing the numbers by an order or two of magnitude is completely the same.
    Since the point was about relative magnitude China vs Rest, which remains correct both in the 'new capacity' numbers AND the 'all operational capacity' numbers, this is unironically correct. Changing the word 'had' to 'brought online' doesnt change the sentiment or point whatsoever.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/

    Another relevant statistic is that China produces 3.3mwh of power from coal a year PER PERSON in its population (and this number is growing fast). At peak (2012ish), the UK produced less than 2/3 of this per person and it has since declined dramatically to almost nothing. The UK built its last coal powered turbine in 1986 to give you an idea of lead time on peak production. China is not predicted to stop building coal plants in the next decade.
    Im not sure why you're arguing with me. I was just providing numbers you missed.
    Personally i dont care if china builds another 50 coal plants. With the world needing to close down 3000 coal plants by 2030 its all a drop in the bucket


    

  18. #19538
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    China accounts for around 30% of global manufacturing output though. The UK accounts for less than 2%.

    Also relevant

    Your numbers cut off in 2007 dude.

  19. #19539
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It looks like I may have mixed up my numbers for operational vs commissioned that year, same point tho
    Yes missing the numbers by an order or two of magnitude is completely the same.
    Since the point was about relative magnitude China vs Rest, which remains correct both in the 'new capacity' numbers AND the 'all operational capacity' numbers, this is unironically correct. Changing the word 'had' to 'brought online' doesnt change the sentiment or point whatsoever.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/

    Another relevant statistic is that China produces 3.3mwh of power from coal a year PER PERSON in its population (and this number is growing fast). At peak (2012ish), the UK produced less than 2/3 of this per person and it has since declined dramatically to almost nothing. The UK built its last coal powered turbine in 1986 to give you an idea of lead time on peak production. China is not predicted to stop building coal plants in the next decade.
    Im not sure why you're arguing with me. I was just providing numbers you missed.
    Personally i dont care if china builds another 50 coal plants. With the world needing to close down 3000 coal plants by 2030 its all a drop in the bucket
    How is china building 80 coal plants a year, every year, 'a drop in the bucket' against the need to close 3000 by 2030? That's literally 1/4 of that target.

  20. #19540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    China accounts for around 30% of global manufacturing output though. The UK accounts for less than 2%.

    Also relevant

    Your numbers cut off in 2007 dude.
    i know. Point being (one i didn't elaborate on tbf) its all just rearranging deckchairs on the titanic. We are as a species still accelerating into climate disaster. Might be able to pretend were doing our part by offshoring dirty and cheap and quick manufacturing to the other side of the world (with added transport costs) to make us feel good locally but the truth is we are still in a reality that demands ever increasing short term growth and values that over all else, including sustainability.

    Look at how we as a species dealt with a Global Health Crisis. We got shit done fast and cheap; the English NHS alone used 2 billion items of single use PPE in the first 6 months of the Pandemic. Mainly made in China. All to incinerator. When we have crisis, we put global medium term health/climate concerns on the backburner.

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