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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #14801
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Okay keep voting for the lib dems then if you can only see black and white on this issue.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  2. #14802

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    (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Okay keep voting for the lib dems then if you can only see black and white on this issue.
    Ah look, Keckers trying to look clever again. Every party apart from the Tories and Labour support PR, you're not limited to those two. I'm laying out a pre-requisite, other issues I'm much more fluid on, whereas you pretty much advocate one-dimensionally (the tired old left-right dichotomy). Additionally, the entire purpose of my pre-requisite is to enable more plurality and less black-and-white winner-takes-all environments.

  3. #14803

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    The idea that any of the two major parties will ever enable a change of the voting system to proportional representation seems entirely fanciful to me. The only way to get there would be to create a single purpose political vehicle and then to get a majority of the population to vote for that, which also seems entirely unrealistic.
    The biggest likelihood is forcing a coalition situation and using PR as a pre-requisite. Given how much it would take for Labour to gain a majority next election, it's not entirely out of the question. Sadly, it's not a great chance, but ultimately, when the two main parties won't do it by themselves, it's the only means by which I can achieve that.

  4. #14804

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    So it turns out that Dido's world-beating track and trace system was basically run off an Excel spreadsheet
    Well, at least it wasn't Access...
    And they ran out of space cause they were using the columns :>
    And apparently also the old XLS format, which still is restricted to 65k rows.

    But given the choice from the applications in the Office suite they're using, Access would have been the right choice. After all, it is a database, not a spreadsheet.

    In before "but ... but database corruption!!". Yeah, that was a thing - with Access 2.0. If it happens these days, it's one of 2 causes: bad programming (even VBA scripting) or faulty hardware (NIC, HD).

  5. #14805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    So it turns out that Dido's world-beating track and trace system was basically run off an Excel spreadsheet
    Well, at least it wasn't Access...
    And they ran out of space cause they were using the columns :>
    And apparently also the old XLS format, which still is restricted to 65k rows.

    But given the choice from the applications in the Office suite they're using, Access would have been the right choice. After all, it is a database, not a spreadsheet.

    In before "but ... but database corruption!!". Yeah, that was a thing - with Access 2.0. If it happens these days, it's one of 2 causes: bad programming (even VBA scripting) or faulty hardware (NIC, HD).
    While true, bear in mind the sort of quality people this government has put on the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush
    idiotic posts out of context

  6. #14806
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    No political party that gains a majority in the current system will enable a change of that system. If the condition for forming a coalition is the realistic possibility of changing the electoral system (i.e. not something like the joke that the Lib Dems got), then no such coalition will be formed. If the Lib Dems magically become the majority party, then they will have a sudden change of heart over the electoral system of choice.

  7. #14807
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Okay keep voting for the lib dems then if you can only see black and white on this issue.
    Ah look, Keckers trying to look clever again. Every party apart from the Tories and Labour support PR, you're not limited to those two. I'm laying out a pre-requisite, other issues I'm much more fluid on, whereas you pretty much advocate one-dimensionally (the tired old left-right dichotomy). Additionally, the entire purpose of my pre-requisite is to enable more plurality and less black-and-white winner-takes-all environments.
    I agree entirely with your purpose, coalition governments on the continent show that electoral systems which encourage a plurality of parties are generally more left wing and have better policy outcomes for society. However I'm not going to stop supporting the Labour party on this single issue, I have other priorities.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  8. #14808

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Or you're in a privileged position where it does not really matter much if Tories or Labour are in power? Nothing substantial will change in your life regardless.

    (I don't know, just suggesting alternative interpretations.)
    I don't particularly like the Tories or Labour, but would prefer a Starmer-style Labour government over a Tory one. I thought a Corbyn government would have been a rather dangerous thing considering they were promising to dismantle all ISPs amongst other dangerous things. That's not to say that a Tory government has not been harmful in other ways, but I didn't vote for either of them.

    Above all that though, I think the system is fundamentally broken and is causing more harm to the country as time goes by through accelerating or causing (depending on who you ask) the polarisation of the country and thus I won't vote for a party that won't change it. I utterly abhor the way the system encourages voting against the incumbent rather than for a candidate.
    I'm pretty sure that the policy wasn't to dismantle all ISPs, but simply to offer a free, basic-level, broadband service to anyone who wanted it. Has having the NHS stopped BUPA or Harley Street? And even if the policy was to dismantle all ISPs, how would that be dangerous given that the current crop are mostly awful and they've failed utterly to privide a universal service? I mean, are you seriously suggesting that it's the equivalent of the Tories' UC policy literally killing people?

    And I'm slowly coming to conclusion that yes, Starmer would be better than Johnson - but only in the sense that Fred West was nicer than Harold Shipman
    Last edited by Rodj Blake; October 6 2020 at 10:31:08 AM.

  9. #14809
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    And in the meantime we live get to live in perpetual tory hellworld.

    Well at least we were right about centrists after all...
    I'd have thought somebody desperate to get Labour as many votes as possible (because lord knows they need them after Michael Foot Mk II) wouldn't be so keen to alienate the very people they need to attract.
    Michael Foot mk II got a greater vote share in either of his defeats than the Great Gods of Centrism, Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband, neither of whom managed to convincingly crack 30%.

    Corbyn was a reaction to a problem in Labour and the fact that so many people just don't see that, and think that now we've banished Magic Grandpa to the land of allotments and jam everything will be sunshine and lollipops under the Great Forensic Electable Sensible Sir Keith Haircut, is exactly what I'm talking about.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  10. #14810

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the policy wasn't to dismantle all ISPs, but simply to offer a free, basic-level, broadband service to anyone who wanted it. Has having the NHS stopped BUPA or Harley Street?
    Part of the problem was that they didn't think it through at all so a lot of it was vague on the hows and whys, but what they promised was free fibre broadband to everyone. Unless they intentionally hobbled it, that would put basically all ISPs out of business except maybe Virgin and I seem to remember threats of nationalising their fibre network too. Truespeed, for example, provide fibre broadband to rural areas of the south west. They'd essentially be bankrupted by Labour's plans.

  11. #14811

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Michael Foot mk II got a greater vote share in either of his defeats than the Great Gods of Centrism, Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband, neither of whom managed to convincingly crack 30%.
    Vote share doesn't matter under the system Labour support. Seats matter and they got wrecked.

  12. #14812
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the policy wasn't to dismantle all ISPs, but simply to offer a free, basic-level, broadband service to anyone who wanted it. Has having the NHS stopped BUPA or Harley Street?
    Part of the problem was that they didn't think it through at all so a lot of it was vague on the hows and whys, but what they promised was free fibre broadband to everyone. Unless they intentionally hobbled it, that would put basically all ISPs out of business except maybe Virgin and I seem to remember threats of nationalising their fibre network too. Truespeed, for example, provide fibre broadband to rural areas of the south west. They'd essentially be bankrupted by Labour's plans.
    Phew, sounds like we dodged a bullet by electing this tory government then
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  13. #14813

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Phew, sounds like we dodged a bullet by electing this tory government then
    I happen to be writing about this issue because it's the one I can remember the most about off the top of my head, but it's an example of how ill thought through Labour's manifesto actually was. It did nothing to build Labour's credibility, which is what they needed to do during an election they voted for at a point where the economic and political conditions were so heavily stacked against them. Own goal after own goal.

  14. #14814
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  15. #14815
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Labour is still an active political force.
    They haven't looked like one in 10 years.
    meh

  16. #14816
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Labour is still an active political force.
    They haven't looked like one in 10 years.
    That must be why they get consistently dog piled by every billionaire owned media corporation.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  17. #14817

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    I would argue that Labour supporters would be better served trying to address their party's problems than building straw men.

  18. #14818
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    What problems? Keir Starmer solved antisemitism over night simply by not being Corbyn.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  19. #14819

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Labour is still an active political force.
    They haven't looked like one in 10 years.
    It's certainly not ten years since they had the largest membership of any party in Europe.

  20. #14820
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Labour is still an active political force.
    They haven't looked like one in 10 years.
    It's certainly not ten years since they had the largest membership of any party in Europe.
    Haven't been able to convert than into any form of active government policy though, have they?
    meh

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