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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #12481
    Keckers's Avatar
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    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  2. #12482
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Meanwhile, back at Labour...

    tired, sexist trope

  3. #12483
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    this is what decorum and norms fetishization looks like.

    "Boris Johnson argued for letting thousands die and enacted policies that will likely have that outcome, but because he's now sick himself we should be respectful of him!"
    Yes, that is exactly how being a normal human being works. You don't sink to the level of people you disagree with. You hold yourself to your own standards, which for most functioning adults involves not being pleased about the death of another human being.
    If he dies or is permanently disabled of this, I will feel pretty much the same way that I did when I found out that Osama bin Laden died. I won't rejoice but I will be pleased that a threat to me and my kind has been neutralised, and highly satisfied that he died the death that he wished and enacted on others.

    There's no moral equivalency here: I have no power to change the situation regardless of my preferences so they carry no external weight beyond perhaps the couple of dozen people who frequent this form, whereas Johnson was given - because he asked for it - the power to help or harm and entire nation state, and chose to use it for harm. He wants old sick people like my dad to die off because they're an inconvenience to his world view and his goal of making rich privileged people like himself even more rich and even more privileged, and he took actions towards that goal.

    In short, my satisfaction at Johnson getting his comeuppance is nothing more than private satisfaction at seeing dramatic justice done to someone who, in a sane society, would be held as morally accountable as any other killer. If a man who was an excutive at Phillip Morris or one of those other tobacco companies that deliberately and knowingly hid the truth that smoking was carcinogenic, and also deliberately increased the addictiveness of cigarettes developed lung cancer, I'd feel the same way even if he had a family and a dog who loved him. A cruel and destructive sociopath who has a small in-group he apparently cares for doesn't get any kind of a free pass for it. I love my dad, and Johnson was eager to see the likes of him get sacrificed, so if he gets a pass fr his kids I get a pass for my parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  4. #12484
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Ill be the chap who says fuck it, i dont give the slightest of shits if Boris lives or dies. Ill take the death simply for the entertainment factor. Im sure his kids and wife and girlfriends and half kids and not yet admitted kids would all be better off without him too tbh.

    Now is not the time for playing nice, comrades.
    Ahh I miss that brief, heady week in 2007 when it actually WAS time to play time for Duckslayer

  5. #12485
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Can you imagine the long speeches from every slimy MP if he is taken by Corona?

    "Boris was more than that.. he was my friend"
    "we have to honor his memory"
    etc

  6. #12486
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Can you imagine the long speeches from every slimy MP if he is taken by Corona?

    "Boris was more than that.. he was my friend"
    "we have to honor his memory"
    etc
    The only time the left has been in power in this country came after a national unity government...
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  7. #12487
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Can you imagine the long speeches from every slimy MP if he is taken by Corona?

    "Boris was more than that.. he was my friend"
    "we have to honor his memory"
    etc
    "We have to stay the course and keep letting the old and poor die - it's what he would have wanted"
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  8. #12488
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    this is what decorum and norms fetishization looks like.

    "Boris Johnson argued for letting thousands die and enacted policies that will likely have that outcome, but because he's now sick himself we should be respectful of him!"
    Yes, that is exactly how being a normal human being works. You don't sink to the level of people you disagree with. You hold yourself to your own standards, which for most functioning adults involves not being pleased about the death of another human being.
    If he dies or is permanently disabled of this, I will feel pretty much the same way that I did when I found out that Osama bin Laden died. I won't rejoice but I will be pleased that a threat to me and my kind has been neutralised, and highly satisfied that he died the death that he wished and enacted on others.

    There's no moral equivalency here: I have no power to change the situation regardless of my preferences so they carry no external weight beyond perhaps the couple of dozen people who frequent this form, whereas Johnson was given - because he asked for it - the power to help or harm and entire nation state, and chose to use it for harm. He wants old sick people like my dad to die off because they're an inconvenience to his world view and his goal of making rich privileged people like himself even more rich and even more privileged, and he took actions towards that goal.

    In short, my satisfaction at Johnson getting his comeuppance is nothing more than private satisfaction at seeing dramatic justice done to someone who, in a sane society, would be held as morally accountable as any other killer. If a man who was an excutive at Phillip Morris or one of those other tobacco companies that deliberately and knowingly hid the truth that smoking was carcinogenic, and also deliberately increased the addictiveness of cigarettes developed lung cancer, I'd feel the same way even if he had a family and a dog who loved him. A cruel and destructive sociopath who has a small in-group he apparently cares for doesn't get any kind of a free pass for it. I love my dad, and Johnson was eager to see the likes of him get sacrificed, so if he gets a pass fr his kids I get a pass for my parents.
    Yeah but have you considered sTrUcTuRaL vIoLeNcE iSnT rEaL
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  9. #12489

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Except Boris and his government who spent the first week pushing a herd immunity narrative against the advice of literally everyone.
    The insane thing about this herd immunity lark is that it all started from a slight mis-speak from Vallance. Herd immunity is the target outcome for every nation, and leveraging partial herd immunity is likewise a technique every nation will use to manage the phased return to normalcy. Vallance is an utterly incapable communicator, so this nuance was missed. This was amplified by that following weekend being dominated by news reports you can trace back to "ministerial sources" - we've still got ministers briefing against each other in the press, and the press still leading on those stories.

    The real major error in the response was mixing messages and choosing not to enforce the lockdown. It took seven days for Boris to go from literally scoffing at the idea of using police to enforce a lockdown - how dare anyone suggest we violate the tenets of liberal democracy in such a way - to him actually cottoning on to the fact that mere suggestions aren't enough to get people to fundamentally change the way they live their lives. There's a good chance that seven day gap, plus all the dithering around it, is likely to have cost a couple of thousand lives. There's also a good chance that in the rest of the country - outside London parts of the West Midlands, we've gotten rather lucky.

    The Imperial 30th March report covers this is in fine detail. We actually pulled the trigger on social distancing regs within a day of most of the rest of europe (pp 5), but took until the 25th to actually enforce that with a public events ban and shutting down businesses. That's where the cost will be, particularly in London.
    That's not fair to Vallance. Johnson himself was on breakfast TV suggesting that we should 'take it on the chin'.

    And fair play, he's following his own strategy.
    He didn't suggest that at all... but let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
    Indeed, we were always at war with Eurasia!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQDXmipIYF8

  10. #12490

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    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Yeah, so he didn't say that.

  11. #12491

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Can you imagine the long speeches from every slimy MP if he is taken by Corona?

    "Boris was more than that.. he was my friend"
    "we have to honor his memory"
    etc
    The only time the left has been in power in this country came after a national unity government...
    You seem to have airbrushed Harold Wilson out of the picture.
    Last edited by Rodj Blake; April 7 2020 at 10:12:02 AM.

  12. #12492
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Yeah, so he didn't say that.
    Shhh, Johnson is busy contributing to herd immunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  13. #12493

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Yeah, so he didn't say that.
    What do you mean? He said exactly those words. The wider context was that he was presenting two approaches (lockdown / no lockdown) and suggesting that our policy should balance between them. That kind of mixed message is terrible comms.

    Contemplating 'take it on the chin' as a strand of the plan is also terrible policy, given that the WHO and almost all other responsible countries were doing the opposite.

  14. #12494
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Can you imagine the long speeches from every slimy MP if he is taken by Corona?

    "Boris was more than that.. he was my friend"
    "we have to honor his memory"
    etc
    The only time the left has been in power in this country came after a national unity government...
    You seem to airbrushed Harold Wilson out of the picture.
    The left have been in office since but in power only once.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  15. #12495
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    National Unity Government on the cards if Johnson dies?
    Can you imagine the long speeches from every slimy MP if he is taken by Corona?

    "Boris was more than that.. he was my friend"
    "we have to honor his memory"
    etc
    The only time the left has been in power in this country came after a national unity government...
    You seem to airbrushed Harold Wilson out of the picture.
    No True Leftist.

  16. #12496
    Smegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    this is what decorum and norms fetishization looks like.

    "Boris Johnson argued for letting thousands die and enacted policies that will likely have that outcome, but because he's now sick himself we should be respectful of him!"
    Yes, that is exactly how being a normal human being works. You don't sink to the level of people you disagree with. You hold yourself to your own standards, which for most functioning adults involves not being pleased about the death of another human being.
    If he dies or is permanently disabled of this, I will feel pretty much the same way that I did when I found out that Osama bin Laden died. I won't rejoice but I will be pleased that a threat to me and my kind has been neutralised, and highly satisfied that he died the death that he wished and enacted on others.

    There's no moral equivalency here: I have no power to change the situation regardless of my preferences so they carry no external weight beyond perhaps the couple of dozen people who frequent this form, whereas Johnson was given - because he asked for it - the power to help or harm and entire nation state, and chose to use it for harm. He wants old sick people like my dad to die off because they're an inconvenience to his world view and his goal of making rich privileged people like himself even more rich and even more privileged, and he took actions towards that goal.

    In short, my satisfaction at Johnson getting his comeuppance is nothing more than private satisfaction at seeing dramatic justice done to someone who, in a sane society, would be held as morally accountable as any other killer. If a man who was an excutive at Phillip Morris or one of those other tobacco companies that deliberately and knowingly hid the truth that smoking was carcinogenic, and also deliberately increased the addictiveness of cigarettes developed lung cancer, I'd feel the same way even if he had a family and a dog who loved him. A cruel and destructive sociopath who has a small in-group he apparently cares for doesn't get any kind of a free pass for it. I love my dad, and Johnson was eager to see the likes of him get sacrificed, so if he gets a pass fr his kids I get a pass for my parents.
    Sorry to say, i'm on board with Malc, Duck et al. No cheering here, but if boris were to meet the end of his mortal coil via COVID, I would have a sense of some kind of accountability (which is missing from our society) having been finally enacted.

    Boris and his ilk have engaged in systematically reducing the capability of the NHS over decades in preference to private interests and also engaged in cementing the positions of power for the elite at the cost to all of us. His lack of intelligent choices based on available evidence at appropriate times has lead directly to his current situation.
    Shitting up eve for .... well, longer than most of you scumbags.

  17. #12497
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I'm guessing since Boris isn't on a ventilator he's determined to be fit for work?
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  18. #12498
    Meester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    I literally answered "Yes." and you edited it out of the quote.
    Im pretty sure people could understand that you said yes [or at the very least read your post]. While the virus doesn't care about ideology I know how very you care about yours in your various attempts to politicise the deaths. Your efforts at 'oh the other ones are bad too' are quite transparent. Its funny that you blame the Government for following the advice of experts, I can remember a time not long ago when you lot did the opposite. So tell me, is following the advise of experts wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Except Boris and his government who spent the first week pushing a herd immunity narrative against the advice of literally everyone.
    Boris followed the advise of the CSO and CMO though. You might have literally watched them as they were talking abut herd immunity. Do you actually know what the CSO and CMO are or have you not been paying attention while frothing at the mouth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smegs View Post
    Sorry to say, i'm on board with Malc, Duck et al. No cheering here, but if boris were to meet the end of his mortal coil via COVID, I would have a sense of some kind of accountability (which is missing from our society) having been finally enacted.

    Should listen to this man,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogart
    Also extending sympathy doesn’t mean excusing behaviour or rescinding judgement. It’s compassion or empathy, and can be felt for people you don’t like.
    he might be a twat and Malcanis certainly won't listen to him [why on Earth you think Boris wants to kill your father when he is of the demographic that would vote for him?] but you can learn a lot from simple empathy and humanity. But maybe you, Malc and duck lack those vital things for human beings to have? And yes you are cheering.

    Somehow you pathetic little human beings have got it into your head [not enough brain cells for 'heads'] that Johnson = Hitler.
    Last edited by Meester; April 8 2020 at 02:21:08 AM.

  19. #12499
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    I literally answered "Yes." and you edited it out of the quote.
    Im pretty sure people could understand that you said yes [or at the very least read your post]. While the virus doesn't care about ideology I know how very you care about yours in your various attempts to politicise the deaths. Your efforts at 'oh the other ones are bad too' are quite transparent. Its funny that you blame the Government for following the advice of experts, I can remember a time not long ago when you lot did the opposite. So tell me, is following the advise of experts wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Except Boris and his government who spent the first week pushing a herd immunity narrative against the advice of literally everyone.
    Boris followed the advise of the CSO and CMO though. You might have literally watched them as they were talking abut herd immunity. Do you actually know what the CSO and CMO are or have you not been paying attention while frothing at the mouth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smegs View Post
    Sorry to say, i'm on board with Malc, Duck et al. No cheering here, but if boris were to meet the end of his mortal coil via COVID, I would have a sense of some kind of accountability (which is missing from our society) having been finally enacted.

    Should listen to this man,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogart
    Also extending sympathy doesn’t mean excusing behaviour or rescinding judgement. It’s compassion or empathy, and can be felt for people you don’t like.
    he might be a twat and Malcanis certainly won't listen to him [why on Earth you think Boris wants to kill your father when he is of the demographic that would vote for him?] but you can learn a lot from simple empathy and humanity. But maybe you, Malc and duck lack those vital things for human beings to have? And yes you are cheering.

    Somehow you pathetic little human beings have got it into your head [not enough brain cells for 'heads'] that Johnson = Hitler.
    No. Hitler was effective.
    meh

  20. #12500
    Meester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    No. Hitler was effective.
    Don't need Hitler to kill communism.

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