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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #12361
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And what is "extremist representation" exaclty? I assume only things you don't like in your polite world of contracts and coke up the bum?
    Oh I don’t know, perhaps groups like UKIP that were mentioned literally five minutes ago. Do you even know how to fucking read?

  2. #12362
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    How are the tories not extremists?
    How is everyone who voted for brexit and their foreign-financed treasonous leaders not actually a dangerous group of radicals who want to destroy the country they live in, the world order that has given them working plumbing, and harm their countrymen in the process?
    meh

  3. #12363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And what is "extremist representation" exaclty? I assume only things you don't like in your polite world of contracts and coke up the bum?
    Oh I don’t know, perhaps groups like UKIP that were mentioned literally five minutes ago. Do you even know how to fucking read?
    I asked you to explain your criteria and why this is a good system.

    A thing you're remarkably bad at doing for someone with all the solutions to other people's problems.

  4. #12364
    Keckers's Avatar
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    A lot voted for Brexit as a result of not being represented politically by anyone at a national level. Brexit was a product of the parliamentary system.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  5. #12365
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And what is "extremist representation" exaclty? I assume only things you don't like in your polite world of contracts and coke up the bum?
    Oh I don’t know, perhaps groups like UKIP that were mentioned literally five minutes ago. Do you even know how to fucking read?
    I asked you to explain your criteria and why this is a good system.

    A thing you're remarkably bad at doing for someone with all the solutions to other people's problems.
    Again, for the third time, you special, special young man: I literally said I don’t like the system. But it is imo preferable to a more proportional system that allows extremists with dispersed support a seat at the table. Had you taken the time to read what I wrote on the last page you would’ve understood that; but then, you’ve never been very good at understanding anything.

  6. #12366
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Djan: fptp keeps the Green party out of parliament in the UK. With our mixed system of both representative and fptp votes (two votes per person, two seats per constituency) they had a chance to prove themselves in parliament decades ago and have now moved into the spot held by the German Social Democratic Party, because the latter fails just like Labour.
    And maybe giving UKIP a seat allows them to show how utterly useless they are. It also enfranchises a bunch of people you now disenfranchise.

    I have experience with giving nutters seats in parliaments, I am from a state that had NPD members in parliament. That is a quite open neo-Nazi party. They were useless and often barely managed to pass the 5% cut off.
    nevar forget

  7. #12367
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Djan: fptp keeps the Green party out of parliament in the UK. With our mixed system of both representative and fptp votes (two votes per person, two seats per constituency) they had a chance to prove themselves in parliament decades ago and have now moved into the spot held by the German Social Democratic Party, because the latter fails just like Labour.
    And maybe giving UKIP a seat allows them to show how utterly useless they are. It also enfranchises a bunch of people you now disenfranchise.

    I have experience with giving nutters seats in parliaments, I am from a state that had NPD members in parliament. That is a quite open neo-Nazi party. They were useless and often barely managed to pass the 5% cut off.
    Then you have more faith in the people than I, and I respect that fwiw. I guess we'll see how much further Germany drifts to the right as the migrant crisis continues to develop.

  8. #12368
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Djan: fptp keeps the Green party out of parliament in the UK. With our mixed system of both representative and fptp votes (two votes per person, two seats per constituency) they had a chance to prove themselves in parliament decades ago and have now moved into the spot held by the German Social Democratic Party, because the latter fails just like Labour.
    And maybe giving UKIP a seat allows them to show how utterly useless they are. It also enfranchises a bunch of people you now disenfranchise.

    I have experience with giving nutters seats in parliaments, I am from a state that had NPD members in parliament. That is a quite open neo-Nazi party. They were useless and often barely managed to pass the 5% cut off.
    But Joe, the greens are extremists, don’t you know?

  9. #12369

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    Looks like Barry Gardiner's been sacked by Starmer. He may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he's one of the better attack dogs in the PLP.

  10. #12370
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Canít allow extremists any sort of representation, ever, imo - and the UK isnít enlightened enough to trust with a form of PR.
    We have PR in The Netherlands and this has never been a real problem. One of the extremist parties was allowed to sort-of be part of one coalition and that alliance failed so now no-one wants to work with them ever again. A new extremist party has risen in the last years but it's mostly been capturing voters from the first extremist. If anything it makes them easier to handle, as they're out in the open and can't claim they aren't being properly represented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Failure to ensure a workable coalition is indeed the bigger problem with PR systems, but then i guess i just prefer stability over the purity of democracy.
    Also not really a problem. Hell, several minority governments have been quite successful over the years. It forced them to find parties willing to work with them on each subject which led to some very healthy compromises being reached. Some coalitions that started out as a (slim) majority have ended as a minority, which also worked out fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    The recent instability in the UK isn't really an indicator of anything imo, some commentators have argued otherwise, but several hundred years of strong/stable majorities would suggest the opposite.
    All I see from across the pond is several hundred years of government that doesn't align with what the people really want and thus is very undemocratic. The UK has had some of the most undemocratic outcomes ever in history across the globe in recent years.

  11. #12371
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Can’t allow extremists any sort of representation, ever, imo - and the UK isn’t enlightened enough to trust with a form of PR.
    We have PR in The Netherlands and this has never been a real problem. One of the extremist parties was allowed to sort-of be part of one coalition and that alliance failed so now no-one wants to work with them ever again. A new extremist party has risen in the last years but it's mostly been capturing voters from the first extremist. If anything it makes them easier to handle, as they're out in the open and can't claim they aren't being properly represented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Failure to ensure a workable coalition is indeed the bigger problem with PR systems, but then i guess i just prefer stability over the purity of democracy.
    Also not really a problem. Hell, several minority governments have been quite successful over the years. It forced them to find parties willing to work with them on each subject which led to some very healthy compromises being reached. Some coalitions that started out as a (slim) majority have ended as a minority, which also worked out fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    The recent instability in the UK isn't really an indicator of anything imo, some commentators have argued otherwise, but several hundred years of strong/stable majorities would suggest the opposite.
    All I see from across the pond is several hundred years of government that doesn't align with what the people really want and thus is very undemocratic. The UK has had some of the most undemocratic outcomes ever in history across the globe in recent years.
    The adversarial nature of day-to-day politics in the UK says to me that it would present far more of a problem over here in terms of finding a workable coalition. I’d support PR of the commons was reformed too, but that’s never going to happen.

  12. #12372
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Yes but democracy is bad because the plebs might get what they want.

  13. #12373
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Yes but democracy is bad because the plebs might get what they want.
    That’d be no blacks, dogs or Irish then.

  14. #12374

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    Annaliese Dodds is Shadow Chancellor. She was previously McDonnell's No.2.

    On the other hand, Nandy's got Shadow Foreign Sec.
    Last edited by Rodj Blake; April 5 2020 at 04:52:33 PM.

  15. #12375

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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post

    All I see from across the pond is several hundred years of government that doesn't align with what the people really want and thus is very undemocratic. The UK has had some of the most undemocratic outcomes ever in history across the globe in recent years.
    The US would like to challenge for that title.

    Oh, you said "some of".

    Carry on. We're still #1 goddammit!
    Quarantined and loving life.

  16. #12376

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    Investment advice from Jacob Rees-Mogg: https://www.theguardian.com/business...navirus-crisis
    Last edited by Rodj Blake; April 5 2020 at 05:14:11 PM.

  17. #12377
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Investment advice from Jacob Rees-Mogg: https://www.theguardian.com/business...navirus-crisis
    Except it's not from Jacob Rees-Mogg... And even if it were it would still be a non story.


  18. #12378
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    It's his firm, he founded it and continues to hold a 15% stake in it.

    At the very least it's a conflict of interest.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  19. #12379
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    It's his firm, he founded it and continues to hold a 15% stake in it.

    At the very least it's a conflict of interest.
    Perhaps... But he's ceased all day to day involvement in the firm since he became a minister. Are you suggesting that MPs shouldn't have investments?

    It's hardly controversial for a hedge fund to court investors by stating that there has been a bit of a wobble in the market and there will be firms who will grow as a result.
    Last edited by Totally Not Larkonnis; April 5 2020 at 05:45:42 PM.


  20. #12380
    Meester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    How are the tories not extremists?
    Use your brain but its important to note that the Conservatives if they were in America would be considered Democrats. I doubt you would call Obama an extremist [perhaps you would?].

    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    How is everyone who voted for brexit and their foreign-financed treasonous leaders not actually a dangerous group of radicals who want to destroy the country they live in, the world order that has given them working plumbing, and harm their countrymen in the process?
    The four legs good, two legs bad argument. But I guess by your term Jeremy Corbyn is a dangerous radical eh?
    Last edited by Meester; April 5 2020 at 06:32:59 PM.

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