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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #12301
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    So you wanted the worst candidate so that tories will definitely be in for the next 10 years? The problem with champagne socialists right here folks. Go hide in your bunker lad.

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  2. #12302

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Shame, I wanted RLB in the end. Labour probably needs to die.
    RLB, the third choice candidate of her own side. Really? She matured a bit over the campaign but she's hardly leadership material.
    I wanted her to win so Labour would lose the next election by a magnitude large enough to destroy the party so something new can take its place. Or something like that.
    Djan,
    I've always have a soft spot for you, based on my love of the character you took your name from, but you used to at least pretend to be progressive. Now you're just an I've-got-mine right winger.

    Your 'or something like that' actually means that you want to Labour party destroyed to ensure that your taxes never go up, because you want to keep all your privilege and money and not have it go to poor people either here or in bongo-bongo land.

  3. #12303
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    So SDP 3: Westminster Drift.

    Because SDP 2: Electric Boogaloo worked so well.

    The Tories can claim a lot of those policy platforms right now and has been doing so, so when Labour claims them too, it looks indecisive and doesn't offer a clear alternative. This was overwhelmingly the message on the doorstep in 2015, or at least it was in the safe Labour seat I canvassed in.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  4. #12304
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    So what would your putative new Labour look like and what policy positions would they have?
    Mix of greens, Lib Dem and new labour ideology. Just repackage it - same positions, really. The Labour Party wonít win the next election and that will effectively waste an individual like Starmer, who is the best human capital the party has at the moment. I donít really see the point in doing that l.

    Perhaps thatís what David Miliband realised *shrug
    My understand is that no matter how tragically incompetent a Labour leader is, he's allowed 3 spins on the election wheel
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  5. #12305
    Keckers's Avatar
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    lib dems don't have ideology
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  6. #12306

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    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Shame, I wanted RLB in the end. Labour probably needs to die.
    RLB, the third choice candidate of her own side. Really? She matured a bit over the campaign but she's hardly leadership material.
    I wanted her to win so Labour would lose the next election by a magnitude large enough to destroy the party so something new can take its place. Or something like that.
    Djan,
    I've always have a soft spot for you, based on my love of the character you took your name from, but you used to at least pretend to be progressive. Now you're just an I've-got-mine right winger.

    Your 'or something like that' actually means that you want to Labour party destroyed to ensure that your taxes never go up, because you want to keep all your privilege and money and not have it go to poor people either here or in bongo-bongo land.
    You don't have half a clue how spectacularly privileged and detached Djan is tbh. It reaches spectacular coke filled peaks.

  7. #12307

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Perhaps thatís what David Miliband realised *shrug
    No, he just understood that once his brother had stabbed him in the back to win the leadership, there was no way back for him. Leadership passing between brothers who hated each other? Not a chance. Even if he stayed in the back benches any points he'd want to make would be lost in that noise.

  8. #12308
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Stabbed in the back must be one of those irregular phrases.

    Ed Miliband stabbed David Miliband in the back, whereas Tony Blair did a pragmatic and sensible deal with Gordon Brown.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  9. #12309
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckduck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Shame, I wanted RLB in the end. Labour probably needs to die.
    RLB, the third choice candidate of her own side. Really? She matured a bit over the campaign but she's hardly leadership material.
    I wanted her to win so Labour would lose the next election by a magnitude large enough to destroy the party so something new can take its place. Or something like that.
    Djan,
    I've always have a soft spot for you, based on my love of the character you took your name from, but you used to at least pretend to be progressive. Now you're just an I've-got-mine right winger.

    Your 'or something like that' actually means that you want to Labour party destroyed to ensure that your taxes never go up, because you want to keep all your privilege and money and not have it go to poor people either here or in bongo-bongo land.
    Yeh no, you’ve got me quite wrong. I want a party that wins and am happy to pay more tax; I’m centre left on most things but err on the side of old labour where corporations and income tax are concerned.

    My point is these ideologies, virtues etc. Are not the preserve of Labour alone. It is my belief the party is pretty much broken already, and overturning a 90-seat majority is p much impossible. I’d like to see someone else have a go.

  10. #12310
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Ah yes, socialism is where you pay more tax
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  11. #12311
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    So you wanted the worst candidate so that tories will definitely be in for the next 10 years? The problem with champagne socialists right here folks. Go hide in your bunker lad.

    Sent from my Potato using my fingers
    Oh you sweet summer child.

  12. #12312
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Ah yes, socialism is where you pay more tax
    I’d honestly really like corporate governance to be put on a statutory footing and not simply something that’s ‘explain why you haven’t done x’ as it is currently under the listing rules (don’t ask me which, don’t do IPOs).

    That would however be like dropping a bomb in the city.

  13. #12313
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Perhaps that’s what David Miliband realised *shrug
    No, he just understood that once his brother had stabbed him in the back to win the leadership, there was no way back for him. Leadership passing between brothers who hated each other? Not a chance. Even if he stayed in the back benches any points he'd want to make would be lost in that noise.
    Good point, hadn’t really considered how much they must hate each other.

  14. #12314
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    So what would your putative new Labour look like and what policy positions would they have?
    Mix of greens, Lib Dem and new labour ideology. Just repackage it - same positions, really. The Labour Party won’t win the next election and that will effectively waste an individual like Starmer, who is the best human capital the party has at the moment. I don’t really see the point in doing that l.

    Perhaps that’s what David Miliband realised *shrug
    My understand is that no matter how tragically incompetent a Labour leader is, he's allowed 3 spins on the election wheel
    Is it three now?! Aye I guess that must be the new rule.

  15. #12315
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    lib dems don't have ideology
    You say that like ideology isn't THE most negative quality in politics.
    meh

  16. #12316
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    lib dems don't have ideology
    You say that like ideology isn't THE most negative quality in politics.
    You need ideology to be useful and effective in office in the long term. Otherwise you end up just doing whatever capital tells you and democracy becomes a puppet show.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  17. #12317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Ed Miliband stabbed David Miliband in the back, whereas Tony Blair did a pragmatic and sensible deal with Gordon Brown.
    What have the two situations got in common?

  18. #12318

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Ed Miliband stabbed David Miliband in the back, whereas Tony Blair did a pragmatic and sensible deal with Gordon Brown.
    What have the two situations got in common?
    They're not really similar at all.

    Blair and Brown had a prior agreement that Brown would be be the one to stand should the leadership become vacant. When John Smith died, Blair decided that he wanted the top job, announced his candidacy, and pushed Brown into going along with it.

    The Milibands had no such agreement.

  19. #12319

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    Doesn't matter whether he did or did not actually stab his brother in the back - the public perception was very much that he did, and David did in reality loathe him for it. That's why he left politics altogether. Which is what we were talking about.

  20. #12320
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    The similarities are mostly in how one party saw themselves as the rightful heir to the leadership and underestimated the ambitions of the one who actually did end up being leader.

    But to suggest that Ed stabbed David in the back is mostly media spin. Spin that stuck, as you say.

    Once again, it's all in the optics.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

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