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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #19321
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    No it's THEIR fault

  2. #19322
    Keckers's Avatar
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    One group holds power in the party allegedly on behalf of the other.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #19323

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    Irn Bru shortages reported in Scotland. Revolutions have happened for less.

  4. #19324
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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  5. #19325
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    The undermining only started happening once Starmer started to move away from the pledges he made during the leadership campaign.
    It started about 30 seconds after he was elected.
      Spoiler:

    both


    honestly labour is such a fucking mess right now. I'm not convinced much can be done but nuke us from orbit and start again.
    Starmer is merely getting the same treatment Akehurst, Streeting et al meted out to Corbyn.

    If he can't hack it, maybe he's not fit to lead the party.

    I voted for the man based on his campaign and his promises. Less than six months later, I left the party as I had determined for myself that he had no interest in holding to his campaign or his promises. You can see that in real time with the 15/hr debate - he stood on picket lines with striking workers who were striking for 15/hr, then turned around and told his shadow employment sec not to push that position.

    Look, even if you think the changes to the leadership challenge thresholds and going back to the electoral college are things that need to be done for the good of the party (they don't, but honestly, what's the point in arguing it), surely as The Grownups In The Room you recognise that the best time to be making these changes isn't while there are food and fuel shortages in the country you supposedly want to govern. Conference should have been a fucking slam dunk for Labour, endless snappy soundbites about how the Tories are failing. Instead all the headlines - yet again - are Labour factional disputes. The 'moderates' hold literally all the power in the party right now but they STILL want to punch left. The party, such as it is, is a loose confederation of warring tribes that refuses to recognise that it needs to split and instead assumes it will get another turn under FPTP.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  6. #19326
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Nobody gives a shit about conferences tbh
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  7. #19327
    Phrixus Zephyr's Avatar
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    Do you ever get tired of being a contrarian?

  8. #19328

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Do you ever get tired of being a contrarian?
    Do you still beat your wife?

  9. #19329
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Do you ever get tired of being a contrarian?
    "I'd far rather be happy than right anyday"
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  10. #19330
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Irn Bru shortages reported in Scotland. Revolutions have happened for less.
    Can't stand the stuff myself, I could never see the attraction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  11. #19331

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    Being continually heckled isn't a good look when delivering a speech to your own party.

  12. #19332
    Paradox's Avatar
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    "make Brexit work"

    Come off it you rubber faced goon

    Enjoying the raucousness on both sides


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  13. #19333
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Meanwhile the Tories laughing all the way to another crushing election victory despite being awful as Labour cant get their shit together

  14. #19334

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Andy McDonald has resigned from the Labour front bench, citing Starmer's broken promises.

    I can see why starmer would do this - The press are right wing owned and would be declaring that labour will result in job losses and businesses close. The letter reads like he is looking for an excuse to resign, I'm not saying the right didn't do the same but its not productive either way

  15. #19335
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Andy McDonald has resigned from the Labour front bench, citing Starmer's broken promises.

    I can see why starmer would do this - The press are right wing owned and would be declaring that labour will result in job losses and businesses close. The letter reads like he is looking for an excuse to resign, I'm not saying the right didn't do the same but its not productive either way
    "Our opponents might say bad things about it" is the weakest reason not to pursue something

    Min wage hikes have become popular anywhere, even in the US. And there's an actual limit to how much the media can manufacture consent by hosting weepy business owners for interviews. Its become a theme now that whenever a state leg passes a min wage increase, the public tunes out the crying of the media and everything turns out fine. They've heard the same arguments for 30 years, so its become a bit like white noise at this point. This problem only exists in the mind of neurotically risk-averse centrists
    Last edited by mewninn; September 29 2021 at 04:10:36 PM.

  16. #19336

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    There is the small matter that 15/hour is basically the median wage, which makes it a very target to claim Labour's living in fantasy land. Whether or not it's a policy that would work, if you can't convince people to vote for you because your opponents have successfully undermined confidence in you, you're definitely not getting that policy enacted.

  17. #19337
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    There is the small matter that 15/hour is basically the median wage
    Brits Posting Their Ls

  18. #19338

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    There is the small matter that 15/hour is basically the median wage, which makes it a very target to claim Labour's living in fantasy land. Whether or not it's a policy that would work, if you can't convince people to vote for you because your opponents have successfully undermined confidence in you, you're definitely not getting that policy enacted.
    It's still a little under the median wage as far as I can tell.

    But that's not what you should be comparing it to. The commitment would be to implement 15/hr by the end of the next parliament (because that's how manifestos work). So the question isn't how does 15/hr compare with the median wage now, but how it compares with what the median wage will be in about eight years time.

    And even if the median is about the same then as it is now, it could easily be argued by anyone who's seen the number of people with jobs who rely on UC or tax credits to get make ends meet that the median is too low.

  19. #19339

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    It's still a little under the median wage as far as I can tell.
    It was close enough that I said "basically".
    But that's not what you should be comparing it to. The commitment would be to implement 15/hr by the end of the next parliament (because that's how manifestos work). So the question isn't how does 15/hr compare with the median wage now, but how it compares with what the median wage will be in about eight years time.
    Given that we're entering a period of high inflation, that seems an odd commitment to make now. You're basically saying "we'll raise this absolute number to this other absolute number by 2029" and could get wrecked by both oversimplification and overanalysis in the press. It's actually possible that we could end up with 15 being a reduction if inflation gets (well, stays) high enough.
    And even if the median is about the same then as it is now, it could easily be argued by anyone who's seen the number of people with jobs who rely on UC or tax credits to get make ends meet that the median is too low.
    How many of those are actually on the current median wage?

  20. #19340

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    There is the small matter that 15/hour is basically the median wage, which makes it a very target to claim Labour's living in fantasy land. Whether or not it's a policy that would work, if you can't convince people to vote for you because your opponents have successfully undermined confidence in you, you're definitely not getting that policy enacted.
    What is the minimum wage in UK? In NL they are trying to raise the minimum to 14 euro's. It is 10,80 now.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

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