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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #11201
    DerWish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    We could easily fix that by getting rid of NI

    edit misread that, still want to get rid of NI anyway
    So the part where you become USA bitch is less of a concern to you?

    Also link pls?
    For you: Belfast w paywall and Guardian and Express and Irish times


    The exit and entry forms are mandatory and are the two parts of what is known as a safety and security certificate. It is required as part of a counter-terrorism regime devised to protect the US after the 9/11 attacks but is not applicable within the European Union. After Brexit, it will apply in Northern Ireland and on trade moving from Great Britain to the rest of the EU.

  2. #11202
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    I'm surprised how quickly Jess Phillips realised she doesn't have anything to say if Corbyn isn't the topic of conversation.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #11203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm surprised how quickly Jess Phillips realised she doesn't have anything to say if Corbyn isn't the topic of conversation.
    Pipe down skwawkbox

    The only reason she's not still in the race is the union backing requirement that guarantees three or fewer candidates in the final ballot.

  4. #11204
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Alternatively she was a massively divisive figure who did nothing to reach out from her base

    But y'know, potato potato
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  5. #11205

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Alternatively she was a massively divisive figure
    there is absolutely no evidence for this and the only people parroting this "jess phillips is a cunt" narrative are owen jones and his skwawkbox chums desperate to do damage control as the CLPs and party membership abandon momentum's chosen candidate en masse. They can't talk about that so they're attacking someone else, because they're a bunch of shitlords.

  6. #11206
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ur-leader-race

    The polling says it, as does the fact that she was unable to win the support of the unions or CLPs over that massively Corbynite candidate, *checks notes* Sir Keir Starme....wait this doesn't say Rebecca Long-Bailey, can someone check these notes?

    She was massively divisive and unlike Starmer did absolutely nothing to bring the Corbynite faction on board, which by the way is why he's winning so handily - he's actually reached outside of the people who would support him anyway to bring people in, rather than attacking them.

    I don't know why I bother engaging, honestly. She's another in a long line of people who mistake mildly supportive media coverage for vindication of her platform, but of course she was going to get supportive coverage while being an anti-Corbyn voice. Her performance at the first hustings was atrocious which was the final nail in her coffin.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  7. #11207
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    I heard that Momentum put all her family in a gulag in order to pressure her to stand down.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  8. #11208

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm surprised how quickly Jess Phillips realised she doesn't have anything to say if Corbyn isn't the topic of conversation.
    Pipe down skwawkbox

    The only reason she's not still in the race is the union backing requirement that guarantees three or fewer candidates in the final ballot.
    Pipe down Spectator.

    She could have got through without the support of any unions at all if she'd managed to get the nominations of 5% (just 5%!) of the CLPs. But apparently she realised that she's not too popular with them.

  9. #11209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I heard that Momentum put all her family in a gulag in order to pressure her to stand down.
    It is the sort of thing a group of Tory plants would do.

  10. #11210
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    What's the PLP got to do with my post?
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  11. #11211
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    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  12. #11212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post

  13. #11213

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    I think you meant to link this page that shows her biggest problem isn't that she's divisive, it's that she's almost entirely unknown outside of the usual group of obsessives. (That's us)

    Likewise if you look at the actual data, Starmer isn't winning because he's making dumb appeals to the emotion of the "other side", he's winning because he's seen as competent and a potential prime minister. In other words, he's winning because he is everything Corbyn is not. There is no longer another side - the other side is dead and twitter just doesn't know it yet. This has been hugely evident in the hustings and goings on at the CLP level.

    She's another in a long line of people who mistake mildly supportive media coverage for vindication of her platform
    Sigh. This is just nonsense invented by Owen Jones because he's desperate for something to talk about other than the fact the movement he's been trumpeting for the past five years is being dismantled due to its complete and total ideological and practical failure.

    Again, if you look at the data you'll see that in polling just before her withdrawal she would likely have finished in third place whichever way you skin it. Should we be declaring Nandy a divisive, spoiler candidate intent on doing nothing but bashing the other side? How about Thornberry? No we shouldn't, because just like throwing that bullshit at Phillips it's completely fucking daft noise from a tiny little sect of principally twitter-based extremists who still think it's 2017. She stood for the right reasons and, probably more importantly, she stood down for the right reasons. Don't pull the knives out for women from your own side just because Owen "I'm an Activist!" Jones needs to grow the fuck up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    She could have got through without the support of any unions at all if she'd managed to get the nominations of 5% (just 5%!) of the CLPs. But apparently she realised that she's not too popular with them.
    You'll note no one bothered to go down this route, because obtaining 33 CLP nominations in the space of some four weeks when the only hustings are being held for 45 seconds at a time in the people's socialist republics of merseyside and west yorkshire is near enough impossible. As of yesterday only 84 (just 12%!) have even bothered, because the union vote has already determined the final slate, and under that mechanism you will almost never see more than 3 candidates. So why bother when you're only going to come third anyway? Unlike Nandy, Phillips already had the experience, support and profile to secure a senior cabinet post. She'd only have ground to lose.

  14. #11214
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    Starmer is winning because he's good at wearing a suit.

    I think Phillips dropping out harms hims ultimately because it frames him as a the right wing candidate.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  15. #11215
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    I think you meant to link this page that shows her biggest problem isn't that she's divisive, it's that she's almost entirely unknown outside of the usual group of obsessives. (That's us)
    So was Corbyn in 2015. I was only vaguely aware of him and I count myself as ultra-obsessive. He managed to turn that into a victory. Phillips managed to turn it into nothing.

    Likewise if you look at the actual data, Starmer isn't winning because he's making dumb appeals to the emotion of the "other side", he's winning because he's seen as competent and a potential prime minister. In other words, he's winning because he is everything Corbyn is not. There is no longer another side - the other side is dead and twitter just doesn't know it yet. This has been hugely evident in the hustings and goings on at the CLP level.
    The headline of the linked article is very telling. I'll just pop it here: "Keir Starmer proves that Labour members are willing to compromise for the right candidate"

    Some of us have been saying that for years. Four years at my count. The Labour membership that voted for Corbyn by and large wasn't some kind of monolithic cult - the 'cultists' represented around 15% of the membership. The rest were just ordinary members - people like you and me, even! - who didn't want more continuity of a platform that had failed. If you want to take the Labour party in a different direction, you have to get them on board - this is what Blair did and all the pretenders to his throne...didn't. Compromise was always a possibility, it just wasn't something to be done for the sake of doing it.

    Again, if you look at the data you'll see that in polling just before her withdrawal she would likely have finished in third place whichever way you skin it. Should we be declaring Nandy a divisive, spoiler candidate intent on doing nothing but bashing the other side? How about Thornberry?
    Firstly, 11% vs 7% isn't really worth shouting about. The vote has very quickly narrowed into a two horse race in any case and interestingly in that polling Phillips wasn't gaining any second choice votes. Ten percent of votes for eliminated candidates turned into a two percent vote bounce for Phillips. That says to me that she appeals to a very narrow demographic. Nobody's attacking Nandy for being anti-Corbyn, despite the fact that she demonstrably is, because she has other strings to her bow. Phillips didn't, her entire campaign platform was "look at how much I hated Jeremy Corbyn and also I'm northern", the same campaign platform that Angela Eagle tried 4 years ago and failed with.

    Don't pull the knives out for women from your own side because Jess Phillips has already done it for you
    FTFY

    Ask Dawn Butler Brent or Diane Abbott how they feel about Jess Phillips and her version of party feminism.

    Also, there are 12 unions affiliated to the party and only 6 have declared. Unless I miss something that means Phillips still could have got the union nominations, but she decided not to having not got the ones she assumed were already hers.
    Last edited by Zekk Pacus; January 28 2020 at 07:04:28 PM.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  16. #11216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    I think you meant to link this page that shows her biggest problem isn't that she's divisive, it's that she's almost entirely unknown outside of the usual group of obsessives. (That's us)
    So was Corbyn in 2015. I was only vaguely aware of him and I count myself as ultra-obsessive. He managed to turn that into a victory.
    And what a victory it was.

  17. #11217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    So was Corbyn in 2015. I was only vaguely aware of him and I count myself as ultra-obsessive. He managed to turn that into a victory. Phillips managed to turn it into nothing.
    He had the notable advantage of competing a race wherein the unions didn't have an effective veto on who appeared on the final ballot

    Firstly, 11% vs 7% isn't really worth shouting about. The vote has very quickly narrowed into a two horse race in any case and interestingly in that polling Phillips wasn't gaining any second choice votes. Ten percent of votes for eliminated candidates turned into a two percent vote bounce for Phillips. That says to me that she appeals to a very narrow demographic....
    That's not how you read those numbers. One, all you can tell from those numbers (and this is a flaw in general of AV) is that one of the other candidates is more preferred, and moreover 2 points up from a 10 point redistribution means she claimed almost 20% of the vote that was previously going to Thornberry or Nandy. Given she is very much in Starmer's wheelhouse ideologically, and frankly a far weaker candidate politically, that's not a performance to be sniffed at.

    Phillips didn't, her entire campaign platform was "look at how much I hated Jeremy Corbyn and also I'm northern", the same campaign platform that Angela Eagle tried 4 years ago and failed with.
    I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying that having a go at her for running or making fun of her for dropping out when she realised she had no chance of winning is exactly the kind of nastiness we need to leave behind. For example one could easily argue that RLB has nothing to her campaign platform other than "look how much I love Jeremy Corbyn and also I'm northern" and likewise she has precisely zero chance of winning. Crucially, she is only running because she has been told to by Len - we all know that if Pidcock was still around it would be her instead. And yet you won't be seeing Owen Jones going out of his way to snipe at her, or impugn her motives, or declare that the entire enterprise was nothing but a misguided plot of the mainstream media westminster bubble, will you? Because Owen And The Outriders have no interest in civil discourse, or party democracy, they just want to show everyone how fucking right they are even as their titanic goes down around them.

    I'm not saying she was a great candidate, or even that she was particularly interested in playing nice, just that everyone needs to stop parroting Owen's bullshit please because he's an absolute tip top fucking tool.

    Ask Dawn Butler Brent or Diane Abbott how they feel about Jess Phillips and her version of party feminism.
    There's nowt anti-feminist about telling those two dafties to fuck off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Also, there are 12 unions affiliated to the party and only 6 have declared. Unless I miss something that means Phillips still could have got the union nominations, but she decided not to having not got the ones she assumed were already hers.
    The kicker is the 5% requirement. Only Unite, Unison, USDAW, GMB and CWU are big enough to meet that requirement, and then you need to pick up one or two of the smaller unions and/or the associated societies. Starmer has Unison and USDAW, RLB has Unite and Nandy has GMB. That leaves only the CWU, who are engaging in a "democratic process" to decide their nomination that, er, well let's just say Skwawkbox are very happy about it.
    Last edited by elmicker; January 28 2020 at 07:23:28 PM.

  18. #11218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    also I'm northern",
    Its a hard selling a Brummie as a Northerner.

  19. #11219

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    Elmicker just doing his shit all over again i see.

    Man, hard to ever see a guy so absolutely passionate in absolutely shitting on things yet offering absolutely nothing of value. I feel but an apprentice to his craft really.

    Seriously, where did labour touch you?

  20. #11220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Man, hard to ever see a guy so absolutely passionate in absolutely shitting on things yet offering absolutely nothing of value. I feel but an apprentice
    Sir, you do yourself a disservice.

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