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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #3481
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  2. #3482
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I can't wait to cash in my sovereignty.

    Also, to help everyone keep up https://havewegotafuckingtradedealyet.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  3. #3483
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Who needs trade deals WHEN YOU RULE THE WAVVVVVS

  4. #3484

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I just want people to go out and do more.
    Says man posting about anarchism on a forum

  5. #3485
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I'm being paid to post. It is good praxis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  6. #3486
    Keckers's Avatar
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    DWP arranges a 'work coach' for man dying of cancer

    The letter from the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) told Thomas Glen the coach could help him "think about the type of work he can do in the future".
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  7. #3487
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm being paid to post. It is good praxis.
    it's the only way

  8. #3488

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    DWP arranges a 'work coach' for man dying of cancer

    The letter from the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) told Thomas Glen the coach could help him "think about the type of work he can do in the future".
    I've been working with DWP on and off for the last six months. I'm really not far off asking my boss if I can add them to tobacco companies and the saudis on the list of people I just won't work with any more. Soul destroying place. No one has any fucking self awareness of what it is they're doing and I'm pretty sure I'm genuinely going to regret it in the long term.

  9. #3489

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Agitate for improvement then.
    And there you go again with the strawman.

    Just because someone disagrees with your particular vision for the future, doesn't mean they are a politically inactive complacent white van man.

    Get yourself out of that mindset.
    So tell us, what have you done to make society more equal?
    The question is more "how am i politically active".

    I volunteer my time to the labour wing of my local council. I mostly do legwork.

    I'm an active member of Peoples Vote UK. I last attended a protest near the start of the year. Other than that I help with organisation and boring admin shit.

    I'm a participating and paid up member of IPSE. From a political POV we are a lobbying group that tries to make life easier for freelancers and small-businessmen. As part of IPSE I've been actively involved in pushing legislation that replicates some of the financial advantages big business has, for freelancers and other people not running under a company.

    I do more for economic equality than just ticking a box every 5 years, despite not being a tankie. A shocking combination, I know!

  10. #3490

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Agitate for improvement then.
    And there you go again with the strawman.

    Just because someone disagrees with your particular vision for the future, doesn't mean they are a politically inactive complacent white van man.

    Get yourself out of that mindset.
    So tell us, what have you done to make society more equal?
    The question is more "how am i politically active".

    I volunteer my time to the labour wing of my local council. I mostly do legwork.

    I'm an active member of Peoples Vote UK. I last attended a protest near the start of the year. Other than that I help with organisation and boring admin shit.

    I'm a participating and paid up member of IPSE. From a political POV we are a lobbying group that tries to make life easier for freelancers and small-businessmen. As part of IPSE I've been actively involved in pushing legislation that replicates some of the financial advantages big business has, for freelancers and other people not running under a company.

    I do more for economic equality than just ticking a box every 5 years, despite not being a tankie. A shocking combination, I know!
    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.


  11. #3491
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    That does not mean I don't recognise the fact that we still have it pretty fucking good as a society compared to nearly all of history.
    What does this sentence accomplish? It just sounds like a bunch of boilerplate meant to blunt any critique of a society. I guess since things are better than the dysentery days we should just turn our brains off and stop here

    Meanwhile:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...y-charity-says

  12. #3492
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Agitate for improvement then.
    And there you go again with the strawman.

    Just because someone disagrees with your particular vision for the future, doesn't mean they are a politically inactive complacent white van man.

    Get yourself out of that mindset.
    So tell us, what have you done to make society more equal?
    The question is more "how am i politically active".

    I volunteer my time to the labour wing of my local council. I mostly do legwork.

    I'm an active member of Peoples Vote UK. I last attended a protest near the start of the year. Other than that I help with organisation and boring admin shit.

    I'm a participating and paid up member of IPSE. From a political POV we are a lobbying group that tries to make life easier for freelancers and small-businessmen. As part of IPSE I've been actively involved in pushing legislation that replicates some of the financial advantages big business has, for freelancers and other people not running under a company.

    I do more for economic equality than just ticking a box every 5 years, despite not being a tankie. A shocking combination, I know!
    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.
    He posts on FHC which, as other potential politicians here know, is a huge red flag.

  13. #3493
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.
    Often people do their best political work outside of office. There are loads of community projects and fantastic people who are successful public servants in the 'real' sense because they aren't in office, not despite not being in office.

    This is a large part of the thinking around non-state solutions and 'propaganda of the deed'. There is something inherently corruptible about various forms of governance.

    There's an accessible dovetail here with sports and the idea of something inherently special about amateurism in low level competition and the problems often introduced to sports by professionalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  14. #3494
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Agitate for improvement then.
    And there you go again with the strawman.

    Just because someone disagrees with your particular vision for the future, doesn't mean they are a politically inactive complacent white van man.

    Get yourself out of that mindset.
    So tell us, what have you done to make society more equal?
    The question is more "how am i politically active".

    I volunteer my time to the labour wing of my local council. I mostly do legwork.

    I'm an active member of Peoples Vote UK. I last attended a protest near the start of the year. Other than that I help with organisation and boring admin shit.

    I'm a participating and paid up member of IPSE. From a political POV we are a lobbying group that tries to make life easier for freelancers and small-businessmen. As part of IPSE I've been actively involved in pushing legislation that replicates some of the financial advantages big business has, for freelancers and other people not running under a company.

    I do more for economic equality than just ticking a box every 5 years, despite not being a tankie. A shocking combination, I know!
    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.
    He posts on FHC which, as other potential politicians here know, is a huge red flag.
    Nothing wrong with red flags given the current status quo.

    Besides, do you think right wingers are going to let a history of shitposting disqualify a candidate?

  15. #3495
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.
    Often people do their best political work outside of office. There are loads of community projects and fantastic people who are successful public servants in the 'real' sense because they aren't in office, not despite not being in office.

    This is a large part of the thinking around non-state solutions and 'propaganda of the deed'. There is something inherently corruptible about various forms of governance.

    There's an accessible dovetail here with sports and the idea of something inherently special about amateurism in low level competition.
    Dangerous talk there, comrade. I want my politicians professionally doped up to the eyeballs on PEDs.

  16. #3496
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Agitate for improvement then.
    And there you go again with the strawman.

    Just because someone disagrees with your particular vision for the future, doesn't mean they are a politically inactive complacent white van man.

    Get yourself out of that mindset.
    So tell us, what have you done to make society more equal?
    The question is more "how am i politically active".

    I volunteer my time to the labour wing of my local council. I mostly do legwork.

    I'm an active member of Peoples Vote UK. I last attended a protest near the start of the year. Other than that I help with organisation and boring admin shit.

    I'm a participating and paid up member of IPSE. From a political POV we are a lobbying group that tries to make life easier for freelancers and small-businessmen. As part of IPSE I've been actively involved in pushing legislation that replicates some of the financial advantages big business has, for freelancers and other people not running under a company.

    I do more for economic equality than just ticking a box every 5 years, despite not being a tankie. A shocking combination, I know!
    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.
    He posts on FHC which, as other potential politicians here know, is a huge red flag.
    Nothing wrong with red flags given the current status quo.

    Besides, do you think right wingers are going to let a history of shitposting disqualify a candidate?
    His name was adam "moon mineral head" ridgeway

  17. #3497

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    That does not mean I don't recognise the fact that we still have it pretty fucking good as a society compared to nearly all of history.
    What does this sentence accomplish? It just sounds like a bunch of boilerplate meant to blunt any critique of a society. I guess since things are better than the dysentery days we should just turn our brains off and stop here
    The context is Keckers proclaiming everything to be shit, as if we live in some sort of dystopian hellhole where our lives are utterly miserable, which is not the case for the vast majority of us in the developed world. It is not designed to blunt any criticism, and the fact that you snipped my criticisms that were directly prior to that statement seems somewhat telling.

  18. #3498

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    You're a very smart man. Maybe you should run for office yourself.

    No sarcasm, no bait, for the record. From what I know of you I think you'd make an excellent public servant.
    Often people do their best political work outside of office. There are loads of community projects and fantastic people who are successful public servants in the 'real' sense because they aren't in office, not despite not being in office.

    This is a large part of the thinking around non-state solutions and 'propaganda of the deed'. There is something inherently corruptible about various forms of governance.

    There's an accessible dovetail here with sports and the idea of something inherently special about amateurism in low level competition and the problems often introduced to sports by professionalism.
    Appreciated, but until we all get to the non-state future, we could use alot more competent, proper-thinking people in office, in power, making those decisions.

    Don't get me wrong, having great people working both inside and outside Government is also good.


  19. #3499
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    That's definitely a major problem, especially in FPTP systems like the UK, which is why I want a change to the electoral system and a change from two main parties to more of a plurality and coalition building. However, I've yet to see significant evidence that replacing representative democracy with direct democracy would change that.
    nobody is arguing just ripping out existing representative democracy and replacing it 1 for 1 with direct democracy, you're arguing against a strawman when you make such assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    it's also worth noting that nobody is presenting direct democracy as a wholescale replacement, every left-wing social model has a degree of representative democracy build in, it is simply reduced in scope to where it is relevant be it due to specialist knowledge, decision turnaround time or other factors.
    I see you missed the part where Keckers literally decried representative democracy unfit for purpose, that's where this whole line of debate came from. Do better.
    i am not keckers, and i do not live rent-free in his head.

    and decrying representative democracy as unfit for purpose does not mean decrying the underlying principle, only the current implementation, but eh, it's keckers argument not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Ah yes, the old "X didn't fail, X was failed" line of reasoning. The major complaint I have about Brexit is the way that the Leave campaign was utterly packed full of lies and then, after the fact, was hijacked by the hard Brexiteers who shaped the narrative. This exposes a weakness of direct democracy in the modern age; just how easy it is to shape public opinion and get them to vote for something ultimately harmful.
    try expanding the scope beyond the brexit vote itself and include the events and social conditions that led up to it.

    a vote for brexit was very much billed as a vote for the status quo, the same status quo that has little old ladies dying from the cold in winter because they can't afford the heating bill, the pro-brexit crowd managed to bill themselves as "outsiders" to some extend wanting to change the status quo for the better while pro-brexit narrative was very much shaped as a "more of the same" only when a large segment of the voting population considers "more of the same" a turd sandwich you get predictable results on that basis alone, and then there's the media landscape and conduct around Brexit, it beautifully demonstrates how the media narrative cannot be entrusted entirely to private hands and how weakening the position of the public broadcaster is actively harmful.

    Brexit turned out the way it did because nobody near the levers of power had the stones to be honest about what they've been doing for the last 20 years, instead passing the buck onward to the EU implicitly or explicitly, and the supposed watchdogs who are, in theory, responsible for calling these people on their bullshit where too busy being complicit in the whole thing.

    Even the definition you provided has problems, because it simply becomes a debate about quantity. It's also rather nebulous around the whole "access to community".
    yes, a albeit not a debate with much substance, every human being is entitled to food, shelter and the necessities of life, people making the opposite argument, regardless of how roundabout they are about it are fundamentally scum and can, and should be disregarded as such.

    This whole claim falls in the face of the attitude Keckers has. "You don't need this" suddenly becomes quite a powerful tool tool to deprive you of personal agency.
    as opposed to your employer deciding to toss you out, or your landlord doing the same ? moreover, this is goalpost shuffling.

    OK, so what country has developed without going through those sorts of steps?
    considering the west tends to invade any countries that actually try, and install some dictator with attendant deathsquads, see the history of south america and south east asia for this in action there is little reason to assume that your question is genuine in any way shape or form.

    but let's just assume that it is, i am actually living in one. Denmark didn't industrialize until the 1880's, more than 50 years after most of Europe and we sidestepped most the awful shit associated with sweatshops, child labour and what not because unionism came right along with the industrialization, straight up from Germany and it hooked into certain traditions in the workplace right off the bat.

    Keckers literally calls it unfit for purpose, which I'm pretty much sure means he sees it as unjustified. Are you seriously suggesting that's if you asked any significant number of anarchists of Keckers' variety, they'd come back saying Britain's parliamentary system meets the definition of anarchist because it enjoys broad support and is thus a justified organisation structure?! Come off it.
    considering it's a fundamentally coercive institution, it could never be a justified power structure.

    Quite frankly, I'd be happy enough if you didn't, your belligerent and dismissive attitude creates a debating environment that is designed to bring out the worst in people rather than have an honest debate, but I suspect you know that because you aren't willing to honestly engage in the first place.
    your every argument thus far indicates you have barely a high-school level of understanding of the subject we're discussing, including a minimum of one Reductio ad absurdum per post, you're not actually presenting as somebody interested in a honest debate, you obviously have not done the minimum research that can reasonably be expected and really, you're reading precisely like any other mid-late 20's conservative/liberal who wants to OWN the socialists/anarchists with FACTS,REASON and LOGIC! aka the sort of person that morons like Shapiro seriously.

    this is not a educational forum, the fact that you don't comprehend the underlying tenets is neither my nor Keckers problem, if you're genuinely interested there is plenty of sources available, but i am just going to keep on assuming that you're precisely what you look and behave like, or you could take a leaf out of Alistairs book and actually look into the basics, it makes the discussions a great deal more interesting in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Hardly a strawman when white van man votes tory.
    You are not discussing this with the white van man. You are discussing it with us.

    We are (for the most part) collectively able to understand that we have life the best it has ever been, while also having a vast scope for improvement.
    yet a awful lot of people seem perfectly content with simply enjoying the popcorn as our very future goes over the cliff.
    honestly, there is a sincere moral argument for bringing back Leninist-style vanguardism with purges, gulags and all simply to pull humanity out of the ongoing nosedive towards ecological catastrophe, you could entirely unironically make a "greater good" argument to that effect.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  20. #3500
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    That does not mean I don't recognise the fact that we still have it pretty fucking good as a society compared to nearly all of history.
    What does this sentence accomplish? It just sounds like a bunch of boilerplate meant to blunt any critique of a society. I guess since things are better than the dysentery days we should just turn our brains off and stop here
    The context is Keckers proclaiming everything to be shit, as if we live in some sort of dystopian hellhole where our lives are utterly miserable, which is not the case for the vast majority of us in the developed world. It is not designed to blunt any criticism, and the fact that you snipped my criticisms that were directly prior to that statement seems somewhat telling.
    But it is a dystopian hellhole for the bottom quartile of a population.

    You think the people drinking lead water and skipping food for a day care that life is better now than the 1800s?

    Why don't you show them your charts of global poverty. I'm sure they will be impressed and they definitely won't call you a stupid dork

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