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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #2221

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

  2. #2222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    Do you honestly expect reality to get in the way of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE CORBYN

    I disagree with him on a personal level about quite a few things, but he is a far better leader than media (miss) represents him as.

    Probably his biggest mistake was his promise to ramp up the punishments that are dished out when media lies

  3. #2223

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    That yoUGov data is quite damning but not entirely unexpected.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  4. #2224
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzibar View Post
    Damn Lammy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  5. #2225
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

  6. #2226
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    If only he persisted with a VoNC. Right now it is: VoNC at the best opportunity, i.e., when he thinks it'll pass. Which, given the numbers, is not likely any time soon. The simple fact is that neither the Tories, nor the DUP, will vote against May in a VoNC. All, and I do mean all, know full well what the consequences of that would be at the ballot box. Not least, for many, for themselves personally.

    The thing is: it was agreed at the time. So he should stick to it. But then get it over and done with immediately after the meaningful vote. If he wins, he got what he wants. If he loses, he can immediately switch gear to the other options. Things are what they are in the commons, no real need for all the equivocation, frankly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  7. #2227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Siv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzibar View Post
    It would have been helpful if they said this before the referendum though.
    *they* (we) did, and have been saying it for years.

    It was dubbed "Project Fear".
    Pretty sure they didn't argue all the populist arguments around NHS, immigration and housing were down to bad government policy.

    They argued about what we would lose if we left, without arguing about the positives of the EU or that government policy is the issue not the EU.

  8. #2228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    If only he persisted with a VoNC. Right now it is: VoNC at the best opportunity, i.e., when he thinks it'll pass. Which, given the numbers, is not likely any time soon. The simple fact is that neither the Tories, nor the DUP, will vote against May in a VoNC. All, and I do mean all, know full well what the consequences of that would be at the ballot box. Not least, for many, for themselves personally.

    The thing is: it was agreed at the time. So he should stick to it. But then get it over and done with immediately after the meaningful vote. If he wins, he got what he wants. If he loses, he can immediately switch gear to the other options. Things are what they are in the commons, no real need for all the equivocation, frankly.
    I don't know if Corbyn see's hard Brexit as bad, it'll be a disaster but it's the Tories disaster and it's out of Europe which suits him.

  9. #2229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siv View Post

    Pretty sure they didn't argue all the populist arguments around NHS, immigration and housing were down to bad government policy.

    They argued about what we would lose if we left, without arguing about the positives of the EU or that government policy is the issue not the EU.
    That's because the remain campaign was full of tories who fucked up the NHS, immigration and housing and used the EU as a scapegoat. They were hardly going to own up to their shit governance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #2230
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    If only he persisted with a VoNC. Right now it is: VoNC at the best opportunity, i.e., when he thinks it'll pass. Which, given the numbers, is not likely any time soon. The simple fact is that neither the Tories, nor the DUP, will vote against May in a VoNC. All, and I do mean all, know full well what the consequences of that would be at the ballot box. Not least, for many, for themselves personally.

    The thing is: it was agreed at the time. So he should stick to it. But then get it over and done with immediately after the meaningful vote. If he wins, he got what he wants. If he loses, he can immediately switch gear to the other options. Things are what they are in the commons, no real need for all the equivocation, frankly.
    I don't know if Corbyn see's hard Brexit as bad, it'll be a disaster but it's the Tories disaster and it's out of Europe which suits him.
    I'm not sure about hard Brexit, but surely 'soft Brexit', whatever that means.

    However, should there be a next election, the platform will be determined by the party, with input from the members. So I doubt he'll be able to run on a leave platform. Not without alienating 80% of the members, and the vast majority of the PLP. So, whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  11. #2231

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    The membership that according to a recent poll has more people supporting the policy than opposing it.

  12. #2232
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    The membership that according to a recent poll has more people supporting the policy than opposing it.
    Ho ho denial is not a river in Africa mate.

  13. #2233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzibar View Post
    Damn Lammy!
    That was a solid bit.

  14. #2234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

    The membership voted for this approach.

  15. #2235
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

    The membership voted for this approach.
    and once again you are failing to recognise the temporal necessity of this situation. Membership voted prior to the ECJ giving us a blank check. A delay in the event of deal being voted down just for a VONC is completely unnecessary.

  16. #2236
    Keckers's Avatar
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    There appears to be a massive difference in how parliamentary politics works and how you think it should work.

    In the short term the game constrains the players, you are better off directing your ire at changing the game long term because the players currently don't give a shit about the general public at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  17. #2237

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

    The membership voted for this approach.
    and once again you are failing to recognise the temporal necessity of this situation. Membership voted prior to the ECJ giving us a blank check. A delay in the event of deal being voted down just for a VONC is completely unnecessary.
    You personally may think a delay in the deal for a VONC is unnecessary (and I agree), but apparently the labour membership doesn't agree with you when they put it to a vote a couple of months ago.

    The EU have already indicated they are happy to delay for a GE or a referendum, so time is not of the essence.
    Last edited by Nicholai Pestot; January 11 2019 at 02:42:10 PM.

  18. #2238

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    Peak corbynista denial scenes. The anger will be along shortly.

  19. #2239
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    Is that a smug post or do you have a point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  20. #2240
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.
    Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

    Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?
    The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?
    Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

    The membership voted for this approach.
    and once again you are failing to recognise the temporal necessity of this situation. Membership voted prior to the ECJ giving us a blank check. A delay in the event of deal being voted down just for a VONC is completely unnecessary.
    You personally may think a delay in the deal for a VONC is unnecessary (and I agree), but apparently the labour membership doesn't agree with you when they put it to a vote a couple of months ago.

    The EU have already indicated they are happy to delay for a GE or a referendum, so time is not of the essence.
    Like I said, that was a couple of months ago.

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