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Thread: CCP finally realise high sec wars are hurting player numbers.

  1. #61
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Maybe it should be easier to scratch out a living with the resources available in your own space instead of shipping everything in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  2. #62
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Maybe it should be easier to scratch out a living with the resources available in your own space instead of shipping everything in?
    Unpossible with this map. No matter the resources, no matter the distribution. No region is an island and people are schizofrenic by design.


    It's an old case really. EVE's map was put together way before what is possible today, history has piled up so much that CCP can't change it. The only thing they can take on is lane diversity/projection, aka connection points & purposes.


    Unless ofc you nuke highsec. Then it's a different game. It isn't the resources, it's the trade. There's only been two real points in eve's history when the pattern was different, and one of those was when CCP did nuke the trade hub of its day & age. The other was a player initiative on freeport precursors which didn't last long cause of paranoia and plans.



    It would be utterly hilarious if one fine day some skynet drama would stop all highsec trade forcing people back to contracts. Then you'd see a truly massive shift towards full colonisation and exploitation of nullsec.
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  3. #63

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    CCP has done pretty good job in diversifying many resources, like the moon goo, in such way that you need resources all over the map to actually build something.

  4. #64
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    CCP has done pretty good job in diversifying many resources, like the moon goo, in such way that you need resources all over the map to actually build something.
    This. And you need to trade with WHers to get the materials for T3 ships and certain other items.

    The game is designed to force you to trade for anything other than basic T1 gear. And even then, economies of scale favor centralized production.

    Note that if you didn't need to trade, then that would mean all space is identical. And at that point why bother fighting over said space?
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  5. #65
    Keckers's Avatar
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    It's hardly resource scarcity driving conflicts now is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  6. #66
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    ITT players complain about sim-like elements killing player retention and destroying game whilst discussing how Eve needs more extra realism and *fun*.

    I remember a CSM conference how things like jump freighters and empire logistics was simplified to make life easier for the *content creators* and the 0.0001% who do all the work in empires and alliances. Without those guys, it was said, the game evaporates. But, heyho, you guys know best.

  7. #67
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    ITT players
    imma stop you there
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  8. #68
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    Yes, the "0.0001%" argued in favour of making their lives easier so they could escalate scale significantly, muppets bought into the idea of trickle down content and resulting blue donut brought joy to millions.

  9. #69
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    I miss the days when players ice mined in low sec, but no such thing anymore...

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  10. #70

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    I miss single-run Badgers, etc. equipped with mining lasers, cargo expanders and bookmarks mining Arkonor, Bistot and Crockite 30 jumps out of nearest high-sec. Only 10 runs or so for a battleship. Lets face it, EVE is dead. No point in beating a dead horse. Lets wait for EVE 2 or something similar.

  11. #71
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    Eve was a lot better back in the day when it was worse

  12. #72
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    Ask yourself this: When was the last time you heard a big story about "XXX Null-Sec Empire suffers massive logistical loss as "Enemy Y" attacks them".

    Yeah, me neither.

    If that doesn't tell you Alliance-level logistics are vastly too easy/safe these days, what would?

    Null-Sec Empires should have soft, attackable underbellies. That's content.

    Taking one on shouldn't always be "well, we have less SuperCaps than them, so I guess we'll just blue up instead, yay profit!".


  13. #73
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Given that it's so stupefyingly simple to gank transports and freighters, I'd be surprised if anyone has ever written a big story about logistical losses in null sec.

    Hell, burn jita is the only time I think I've read about logistics outside of eveonline.com - and lol, given the context of this thread.

    Meanwhile, we've had ***the biggest fights in eve history*** stories after jump freighters... so... I don't know what that proves...

    Maybe, just maybe, CCP should focus on content, and mechanics, after all, I think the pool of bitter vets is probably larger than the pool who'd benefit from NPE improvements. :trollface:

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Eve was a lot better back in the day when it was worse
    It kind of was. Mostly in the sense that people were dumb and poor and just sort of stumbled around into each other. Now the approach to everything is a lot more scientific and cowardly. A consequence of the game being 15 years old.

    I don't miss the laundry list of bad mechanics and UX problems, but I certainly miss the different atmosphere it had
    Last edited by mewninn; November 2 2018 at 07:05:59 PM.

  15. #75
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    4. Kill off Jump Freighters and other Jumpable logistics.
    This, sooooo much this
    Yep.
    Logistics is (or should be) an essential part of pvp, just as the economy should be - the background that gives it some meaning. Rendering logistics relatively trivial and safe had the same effect on pvp; who cares if you lose that ship/fleet when you already have replacements on site thanks to teleporting freighters?

    It also directly contributes to the size of big nullsec groups - if a few people can keep a large alliance supplied (with sufficient ISK and motivation) then that's much easier to maintain than if you need a lot of people - and thus risk.
    Exactly.

    Logistics is the key to waging War and holding territory. When EVE removed that from being a meaningful aspect of Null-Sec holding, it took away a vital weakness needed to help keep Null-Sec interesting.

    It's not purely about "fun". Holding Null-Sec and exploiting all it provides is the Fun Part. Logistics is (one) weakness others can (and should) be able attack to attack you as a Null-Sec holder.

    Logistics escorting is work, yes, but it's also an opportunity for PeeVeePee to happen. I can recall a goodly number of times Freighters got caught and escorts had to fight them off, or worse, an unescorted Freighter had to scream in comms to get folks to come try and save it.

    All due respect, the problem is too many Null-Sec holder pilots wanted all of the benefits of being in Null, without any of the work required to live there. And CCP gave in on it.
    Interesting you should say that. When I talked with Greyscale, he also wanted to make it harder to move stuff into/out of nullsec. But that was back in 2013, before Crius made it possible to actually make anything in 0.0, and that point was made. Now though.... nerf JFs, sure, but do goons really need yet another comparitive economic advantage over the rest of sov null?
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  16. #76
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Maybe it should be easier to scratch out a living with the resources available in your own space instead of shipping everything in?
    Unpossible with this map. No matter the resources, no matter the distribution. No region is an island and people are schizofrenic by design.
    Sounds like someone hasn't visited 1DQ recently
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  17. #77
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Maybe it should be easier to scratch out a living with the resources available in your own space instead of shipping everything in?
    Unpossible with this map. No matter the resources, no matter the distribution. No region is an island and people are schizofrenic by design.
    Sounds like someone hasn't visited 1DQ recently
    Exceptions, rules, averages.

    EVE's map is static, fixed, based on exchange routines. The design is by default geared towards the lowest hurdles for exactly that. Which is fine, but it does mean that even with specialised mass industry it'll always be simpler to depend on logistics/trade with a map center (highsec hub).
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  18. #78

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    How much better would EVE be if they removed the PANIC module tomorrow?

    JFs/Freighters don't get a PANIC module I don't understand why Rorquals do.

  19. #79
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    How much better would EVE be if they removed the PANIC module tomorrow?

    JFs/Freighters don't get a PANIC module I don't understand why Rorquals do.
    Because JFs dont inherently spend hours undocked while multiple AU outside docking radius or gate jump proximity
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  20. #80
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    I'm gonna say it. Too many eve players nowadays are faggots. They are hoarding fake space bux and counting their shit posts rather than getting in a ship and making it explode. The nulsex blocks were chief executive of the faggotisation of newcomers. Now its a game filled with precious faggots mining ore and blobbing up each with no idea how to be less of a fsggot.

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