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Thread: CCP finally realise high sec wars are hurting player numbers.

  1. #1
    Armyofme's Avatar
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    CCP finally realise high sec wars are hurting player numbers.

    "CCP Larrikin pulls up activity data for players of corporations that have wars declared against them and it shows considerable activity drops in all activities during the war. They also show that the low activity continues after the war ends. Brisc Rubal noted that the numbers here were so stark, it would justify immediately removing war decs as a mechanic and promising a fix after the fact."

    Took them long enough tbfh.




    https://assets.ctfassets.net/7lhcm73...it_Minutes.pdf

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  2. #2
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Yeah it's about time that shitpile got swept up

    I'm 100% not OK with removing non consensual PvP from hisec, but the basis of it needs to be rethought from the ground up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  3. #3
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Good, fuck hisec war decs

    I don't mean that from a mad pov but ive seen small corps and interested people just wonder away from the game because they got decced super early on.
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  4. #4
    Clovnea's Avatar
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    But how can you remove structures without wars?

  5. #5
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Yeah it's about time that shitpile got swept up

    I'm 100% not OK with removing non consensual PvP from hisec, but the basis of it needs to be rethought from the ground up.
    I agree. Perhaps my idea from four years ago seems viable now? Perhaps not. In any case, what has everyone been up to?

  6. #6
    Aliventi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clovnea View Post
    But how can you remove structures without wars?
    You can shoot any structure at any time. You just get a suspect equivalent flag for doing so. All structures have timers so it's not like you are going to lose your structure overnight. You should get to set the time zone it comes out. It does bring up the mexican stand off issue because the person who RF'd your structure wouldn't still have their timer when it comes out of RF. So they could form, you form, they decide not to agress.. Classic "made you form!" Also, being highsec you don't know who is on the enemy's side. So third partying these fights would be hilariously awesome once players start getting flagged.

  7. #7
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliventi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Clovnea View Post
    But how can you remove structures without wars?
    You can shoot any structure at any time. You just get a suspect equivalent flag for doing so. All structures have timers so it's not like you are going to lose your structure overnight. You should get to set the time zone it comes out. It does bring up the mexican stand off issue because the person who RF'd your structure wouldn't still have their timer when it comes out of RF. So they could form, you form, they decide not to agress.. Classic "made you form!" Also, being highsec you don't know who is on the enemy's side. So third partying these fights would be hilariously awesome once players start getting flagged.
    That was the same talking point people championed when they still allowed neutral ships to remote repair those at war in high sec when they redid the war dec system last. "Think of all the 3rd party action when they go suspect!" The reality was there was very, very few instances of this happened. Almost everyone just avoids shooting suspect players unless they know it will be a slam dunk win with no risk. I feel this would be the same thing. Instead of creating epic battles over structures, it will be one side forming up huge and everyone else finding something else to do in another system avoiding the conflict.
    Last edited by Marlona Sky; October 7 2018 at 01:36:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Armyofme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    In any case, what has everyone been up to?
    Well, Im actually still playing a retarded spaceship online game. Dunno if ya all have heard about it, its Eve online

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  9. #9
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    In any case, what has everyone been up to?
    Well, Im actually still playing a retarded spaceship online game. Dunno if ya all have heard about it, its Eve online
    Hm. Doesn't ring a bell. Is it any good? Sounds like a new thing.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  10. #10
    jimmychrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    In any case, what has everyone been up to?
    Well, Im actually still playing a retarded spaceship online game. Dunno if ya all have heard about it, its Eve online
    Hm. Doesn't ring a bell. Is it any good? Sounds like a new thing.
    It's still in beta.

  11. #11
    Armyofme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    In any case, what has everyone been up to?
    Well, Im actually still playing a retarded spaceship online game. Dunno if ya all have heard about it, its Eve online
    Hm. Doesn't ring a bell. Is it any good? Sounds like a new thing.
    It's still in beta.


    Have a + rep

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  12. #12
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliventi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Clovnea View Post
    But how can you remove structures without wars?
    You can shoot any structure at any time. You just get a suspect equivalent flag for doing so. All structures have timers so it's not like you are going to lose your structure overnight. You should get to set the time zone it comes out. It does bring up the mexican stand off issue because the person who RF'd your structure wouldn't still have their timer when it comes out of RF. So they could form, you form, they decide not to agress.. Classic "made you form!" Also, being highsec you don't know who is on the enemy's side. So third partying these fights would be hilariously awesome once players start getting flagged.
    That was the same talking point people championed when they still allowed neutral ships to remote repair those at war in high sec when they redid the war dec system last. "Think of all the 3rd party action when they go suspect!" The reality was there was very, very few instances of this happened. Almost everyone just avoids shooting suspect players unless they know it will be a slam dunk win with no risk. I feel this would be the same thing. Instead of creating epic battles over structures, it will be one side forming up huge and everyone else finding something else to do in another system avoiding the conflict.
    Just like nullsec then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  13. #13
    Meester's Avatar
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    Removing wardecs is a dumb idea if the end result is that you have untouchables in high sec.

    Which is exactly what will happen and eve will be more forward on the path to wowification.
    Eve is meant to be harsh and really the people who are advocating for wardec removal are
    the same kind of people that have always advocated it i.e carebears and people who couldn't hack it.
    First they came for the wardecs, then they come for the ganking.

    Appealing to scrubs only ends in tears as experienced by Star Wars Galaxies.

  14. #14
    Joshua Foiritain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Removing wardecs is a dumb idea if the end result is that you have untouchables in high sec.

    Which is exactly what will happen and eve will be more forward on the path to wowification.
    Eve is meant to be harsh and really the people who are advocating for wardec removal are
    the same kind of people that have always advocated it i.e carebears and people who couldn't hack it.
    First they came for the wardecs, then they come for the ganking.

    Appealing to scrubs only ends in tears as experienced by Star Wars Galaxies.
    I'm not a carebear and have been hacking it just fine for the last 15 years but ill happily advocate for having wardecs changed though.

    Wardecs in their current form are dumb and bad for the game, have been since day one. Being able to murder structures and shitting on alliances in trade hubs is fine but allowing the worlds most risk averse faggots to shit on new players for easy killmails is silly.

    If providing new players with some safety so they can get the hang of eve at their own pace comes at the cost of all those giant babies crying and ragequitting then thats well worth the trade.

    As for ganking, i dont see that going anywhere anytime soon.



  15. #15
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    Being able to murder structures and shitting on alliances in trade hubs is fine but allowing the worlds most risk averse faggots to shit on new players for easy killmails is silly.

    If providing new players with some safety so they can get the hang of eve at their own pace comes at the cost of all those giant babies crying and ragequitting then thats well worth the trade.
    That's why I think there should be a more variable war dec method. Being able to oppress an alliance/corporation in every possible system with any ship type with the flick of a switch that is very cheap is terrible. The giant alliances of null sec that need to have a challenge when doing logistics in high sec only have to worry about a group with a fat wallet going after them. Meanwhile small starter corporations are easy pickings that are cheap as chips to dec against.

    What I'm advocating for is a system that scales according to:
    • Number of systems/constellations/regions
    • Alliance count/corporation/individual player
    • Ship sizes




    The absolute cheapest type of war dec, or as I like to call it - sanctions, is one player, in one system covering capital ships. From there you scale up. Each slider increasing the cost of the sanction. This also would allow capital ships by players in NPC to be targets in high sec.

    Yes, it means it is very cheap to sling out sanctions left and right against new players, BUT it means these new players have a ton of options sans someone going crazy ISK with a sanction covering all ship types in all systems. There is also the part about how the cost of the sanction goes towards the defending group, but I won't go too deep into that. If you want a more in depth explanation why, just read what I wrote in the blog/whatever it is called. It basically is a stop gag against griefing new players by angry bitter, risk averse vets. Back to the point. There will be a slew of different war dec types and there will be an equal amount of options for people to navigate around it if they want. Some dickhead group like Marmite has done a war dec against your corporation for battleships and bigger in the Forge? Well, you have tons of options. You can avoid the Forge and fly your battleships and barges in other high sec regions. Still want to fly around the forge? You can fly battlecruiser and smaller and they can't legally shoot you. Oh but now you really made them butt mad. So they increase the sanctions more covering a couple more regions. You can still do lower level missions in smaller ships avoiding the sanctions. They still exist you know. So now Marmite has grown tired of hunting new players in your corporation as it has proven to be unfruitful. They drop the sanctions and you go back to flying battleships learning the game mechanics. Oh and you are also enjoying that nice ISK bump from their war declaration cost.

    Sounds fucking crazy, but we need crazy if you want to keep the sub count from bleeding and gain new blood into the game.

  16. #16

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    They should just remove local and hisec, would be best for the game, ie. the fastest death.

  17. #17
    Meester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    Wardecs in their current form are dumb and bad for the game, have been since day one. Being able to murder structures and shitting on alliances in trade hubs is fine but allowing the worlds most risk averse faggots to shit on new players for easy killmails is silly.
    I always thought it was risk averse faggots shitting on other risk adverse faggots.

    If risk adverse faggots come into eve and expect an easy time mining in high sec, then they should advocate for a no pvp server so the rest of the eve population
    doesn't have to hear their crying tears anymore and then they will quit eve when rampant inflation takes hold on that server and kills it for them.

    Do I think wardecs needs to be improved then yes but not for the sake of carebears but for the sake of those who want to pvp in highsec without getting
    priced out. Not to mention that alliances in high-sec might become untouchable, I welcome our goon overloards in high-sec.
    Either find a fw style of warfare or whatever. There is not an easy answer to war-decs that will not fuck someone over.

    If newbs get killed in their corps by wardecs then generally it is the failure of the corps to protect them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post

    As for ganking, i dont see that going anywhere anytime soon.
    When the carebears have gotten their wish of nerfing wardecs into the ground then the former wardec corps like PIRAT
    will resume normal course and become full grown ganking only corps/alliances. And newbs will die to them instead and then the
    carebears, as they already do, will demand that ganking be stopped in high-sec.
    Last edited by Meester; October 9 2018 at 01:01:00 PM.

  18. #18
    Keckers's Avatar
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    It's averse you troglodyte
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    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  19. #19
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    90% of PIRAT are alts. High sec ganking is hilariously easy tho. Very simple to work out the needed damage, alts, response time.

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  20. #20

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    As long as I played, I personally didn't care much about hisec wars, although being mostly on the receiving end of the it.

    What annoyed me though was all those "just in case a lone shoip shows up in <trade hub>" war decs. In almost all cases, I nevcer saw a single enemy ship. And not because stopped all activities, but because no enemy showed up (in hisec) where my actual activities took place. And as soon as the initial dec period ran out, the war got cancelled.

    As I didn't mind the money, I always "opened the war" and let other corps join the war on my behalf*). So that maybe a few other players can extract a 'lil fun from it. But only once actual fights occured, with the wardec'ing corp dropping the war immediately.

    Those wars need to go.

    And also I'm playing no longer, I would very much "real" / "honorable" hisec wars to remain a thing. Kinda Red vs. Blue. That might allow for "proper" battles without captials dropping left and right.

    *) I can't remember the actual name of that mechanic ...

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