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Thread: Pearl Abyss buying CCP

  1. #101

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    PA can't kill eve, eve died long ago, we have only had the walking husk that doesn't know it is dead like a brave warrior on dominion release.

  2. #102
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    so you're saying eve players basically gobble up zombie flesh ...
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  3. #103
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    BRRAAAIIINNNSSSSS!

  4. #104
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    Only 225m for CCP?
    I had expected it to be much higher.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    The real question is why haven't the majority of you that have large sums of ISK not sold it off RMT style. After all my years of EVE I at least managed to break close to even selling all my post FW and PI money that had piled up.
    That's easy: I didn't support RMT back when I played and I'd be a hypocritical asshole if I had done so when I left.

  6. #106
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Only 225m for CCP?
    I had expected it to be much higher.
    It would have been, and there is further return to make. Has nothing to do with the studio following october though.

    It's not a linear curve in relation to value added over time. EVE is old, which to many types of investment and venture capital makes it unattractive. To some types, short cycle basically, it can be more attractive because of the potential to milk by rapid turnover and change. That however clashes with another factor, EVE may be old, but as odd as this may sound, it's what you could call the stamina factor. Staying power, the ability to keep on going, in spite of - as Hilmar put it - there being a hole in the bottom of the ship.

    Before anyone remarks on it, yes, it isn't the smartest statement to make in public. But well, Iceland. It's not necessarily damaging. But one might think that if you find a hole in the bottom of your ship, the solution would be to repair it. Not to first leave it floating and trying to build kitchen sink types of ships, followed by the grand idea of "if this one has a hole, and we can't build another one, why not move the leaky ship to a different sea cuz the water there is different".

    Irony moment. In those days bitter vets nailed it. The moment CCP stopped paying attention was the moment they shot their own future in the foot. Proper shareholders excempt, obviously.


    Prior to the bond / ipo / road-to-f2p Door, CCP had a few valuations, which were pretty damn neat. Most of the neat ones were however based on a very sharp bend in direction. If anything, Summer of Rage showed that those would not have been optimal, without first boiling frogs for a few years. Painful bit though, it wasn't because of such considerations that those boats were held off. Both investors and the old/core shareholders thought the future was far brighter. And internally Hilmar used the negative energy in the company as a catalyst for change.

    Hubris.

    After that, well, I'm sure most here know what followed. A rat race of repayment / branching out with a wide gap between good old fashioned icelandic bullshitting and the circumstances of the investors buying industry trends which even an Engadget magazine was able to signal as "neglegible gain market".

    I can't remember who, but there was this customer who had a blog someplace, managed to piss Sigi off even, he had a thing for piecing together timelines and financials. Tip of my tongue, just out of reach. Grrr. Anyway, after the exit-Vegas rush thing he pieced together that CCP had serious boo-boo with parts of investors and was risking to get either written or sold off. No idea if he ever stuck around, or dug further.

    But that is the point where not only Falcon is a demonstrable moron in believing the bullshit about awesome prospective buyers that didn't materialise (why make X ombudsman, to undermine, duh), but also where it became clear ever more quickly that the old projections on value gain were, well, like Icesave. If anyone remembers that. Which created an odd situation, a studio able to produce revenue, unable to create diversified value, with an increased stock share of specific investors, and the long roadmap of boiling frogs.

    Inconvenient truth, people point at PA, but Hilmar set the direction and methodology of monetisation through P2A way before any of that even became a topic. Deliberately, methodically, and yet as an afterthought by just letting a few people with the desired concepts in mind go to town. And let the rest rub off.

    The introduction of F2P however didn't impact value positively. Which may come as a surprise (hint, warm bodies, CCP "adjusting" metrics of tracking that indicator - not great if your remaining value at this point of prospect sale is only based on EVE = stamina). There's a number of models and methodologies which can be applied, but the gist of it was that while revenue could demonstrably be increased, that only impacts dividends and there's something about the games industry which makes it a different beast for handling those and project funding. Hilmar managed to do a very impressive thing with cutting corners, cost savings, introducing triggers that while impacting the cash cow would further increase revenue. He also managed to (creatively) twist all the writing off of project and studio costs of other projects on third party / investor relations as well as CCP, coming out with a bottom line of a few million made from all of that shit.

    Which was then used as a narrative of awesomesauce. But when you bullshit, you can't keep using the same shit. By this time it was very clear that CCP was simply incapable of doing anything other than EVE. No amount of bullshit was going to change that. So valuation dropped behind the scenes.


    Which is a little fucked up, because CCP had actually managed to figure out a few things by that time. I know, it sounds crazy, but they'd actually managed to clear out a lot of the awesome crowd, a lot of the nepotism, put in place clear idea chains with checks & balances (Seagul's work, for the first time best practices went above the product level) and they had put heads together on post mortems of failed projects without bullshit.

    CCP then wanted to do it all again.

    You don't go out and ask for money without showing something. And if you fucked up so badly that you have to pay for things yourself, you get a label. In the gaming industry more so than in others. Through friendly intervention and some costly massaging the classifications of investment and stock types were kept intact, not downgraded, but well paper is a different thing than word of mouth.


    It's classic irony of blindspots. And the very moment you finally figure it out, you also find out that you have nothing to show for. At which point some Novator + Hilmar saw a light. China. They had already seen some light there, which is how the agreement to part ways there and let the publisher fuck shit up came to be. So ideal circumstances for a cheap and attractive new publishing deal, coupled with mobile, which is where that other light became visible. You can pass yourself off as an access point. Especially if you have entry, network and some decent prospect security embedded in trade negotiations.

    That increased value. It also made CCP attractive, even if EVE wasn't beyond dividends.


    Basically there's a long slow curve of capital and value gain until a bit after CCP forgot about the cash cow and wanted to do brand new awesome things, after which the curve breaks and crunches. That continued until someone figured out that CCP was a dual market entry point. And people still think the targets set for CCP after October only relate to Mobile/EVE :P
    Last edited by Virtuozzo; September 12 2018 at 03:04:28 PM.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  7. #107
    Donor Mynxee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    I can't remember who, but there was this customer who had a blog someplace, managed to piss Sigi off even, he had a thing for piecing together timelines and financials. Tip of my tongue, just out of reach. Grrr. Anyway, after the exit-Vegas rush thing he pieced together that CCP had serious boo-boo with parts of investors and was risking to get either written or sold off. No idea if he ever stuck around, or dug further.
    Are you referring The Nosy Gamer blog? He's done a fair bit of analysis of CCP's financials among other things.

  8. #108
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mynxee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    I can't remember who, but there was this customer who had a blog someplace, managed to piss Sigi off even, he had a thing for piecing together timelines and financials. Tip of my tongue, just out of reach. Grrr. Anyway, after the exit-Vegas rush thing he pieced together that CCP had serious boo-boo with parts of investors and was risking to get either written or sold off. No idea if he ever stuck around, or dug further.
    Are you referring The Nosy Gamer blog? He's done a fair bit of analysis of CCP's financials among other things.
    Argh, yes, that's the one.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  9. #109
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    stop saying boiling frogs constantly

    i will self fucking harm you
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  10. #110
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    stop saying boiling frogs constantly

    i will self fucking harm you
    But it's so ... apt. Boiling frogs.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  11. #111

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    boiling frogs for the new raving homosexuals?

  12. #112
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    boiling frogs for the new raving homosexuals?
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  13. #113

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    SHC word filters, fish -> raving homosexual

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    SHC word filters, fish -> raving homosexual
    what was ferox again? I can't remember for the life of me now.

  15. #115
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    11" penis iirc

  16. #116
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    I TRIED TO TYPE THE INCORRECT PLURAL OF BONUS AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS SHITTY FILTER

  17. #117
    Ben Derindar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
    11" penis iirc
    14 as I remember it.

    (in before "yeah you would remember that")

  18. #118

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack bubu View Post
    Hilmar assuming everyone has a house the size of his?

  20. #120
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Why not, cheap. Also, rinse & repeat. Also, others do the work. Etc.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

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