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Thread: Pearl Abyss buying CCP

  1. #81
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.

  2. #82

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    I only have like 50b in assets, but I have two 100m+ SP characters. I haven't felt compelled to return to the game in years. No one I used to play with even plays anymore.

  3. #83
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  4. #84
    Armyofme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    I'm online, awaiting your contract/isk and chars m8

    phpBB : Critical Error
    Could not connect to the database

  5. #85
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    I missed the people, not the game.
    As you get older, time gets more precious.
    Just can't afford the time this game requires.

    Took me nearly year and a half to liquidate 13.5k b isk

  6. #86
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    I missed the people, not the game.
    As you get older, time gets more precious.
    Just can't afford the time this game requires.

    Took me nearly year and a half to liquidate 13.5k b isk
    That I can understand. I think for the most part those days are over, there's still people who play for their people, but human connections isn't the driver it once was. Not since F2P.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  7. #87
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    I missed the people, not the game.
    As you get older, time gets more precious.
    Just can't afford the time this game requires.

    Took me nearly year and a half to liquidate 13.5k b isk
    That I can understand. I think for the most part those days are over, there's still people who play for their people, but human connections isn't the driver it once was. Not since F2P.
    That’s really sad - they made the game for me.

    Fuck ccp tbh

  8. #88
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    I missed the people, not the game.
    As you get older, time gets more precious.
    Just can't afford the time this game requires.

    Took me nearly year and a half to liquidate 13.5k b isk
    That I can understand. I think for the most part those days are over, there's still people who play for their people, but human connections isn't the driver it once was. Not since F2P.
    That’s really sad - they made the game for me.

    Fuck ccp tbh
    Everything changes.
    You, the game, the market and even how/why we play.

    I think CCP was on the right path with Walking in Station, for future proofing the game.

  9. #89
    Joshua Foiritain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    I missed the people, not the game.
    As you get older, time gets more precious.
    Just can't afford the time this game requires.

    Took me nearly year and a half to liquidate 13.5k b isk
    That I can understand. I think for the most part those days are over, there's still people who play for their people, but human connections isn't the driver it once was. Not since F2P.
    Given the state of the game space friends are literally the only reason most of us still play eve lol.



  10. #90
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Old ones, yes.

    New ones? Yes, and no. Increasingly no. A big benchmark for this was the introduction of instanced gameplay. Also, Alpha's as a concept has had a demonstrable impact on the old networking stimuli of emergent gameplay. Decreasing both number and range of those.

    Josh, I'd wager that for you your character became an anchor of identity in your network of other players. You associate based on cumulative interaction based on identity.

    A character since F2P is increasingly less of an identity, more of an interexchangeable tool.

    That's expanded on by CCP's widening focus on injectors. If CCP had just wanted to get rid of the retention/acquisition problem of player age=ability gap, the solution would have been very different. The inject model was *the* sign for customers of the conscious end of the emergent dynamic game model.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  11. #91
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiCkED View Post
    You can cash out, but you always keep comming back in one way of another (Happening to me from 2007.). Leave some ISK / some reasonably skilled char somewhere safe, you will be back
    I quit 3 years ago, kept all my characters and supers + 300b slush fund.
    Never felt compelled to return.
    /me checks contracts - always happy to redistribute ancient slush to youngsters in RvB, EVE Uni, Brave & other places.


    On serious, not once an itch?
    I missed the people, not the game.
    As you get older, time gets more precious.
    Just can't afford the time this game requires.

    Took me nearly year and a half to liquidate 13.5k b isk
    That I can understand. I think for the most part those days are over, there's still people who play for their people, but human connections isn't the driver it once was. Not since F2P.
    That’s really sad - they made the game for me.

    Fuck ccp tbh
    Everything changes.
    You, the game, the market and even how/why we play.

    I think CCP was on the right path with Walking in Station, for future proofing the game.
    Meh, they could have done a lot of shit and still managed to royally fuck things up frankly.

  12. #92
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Game is not over just because they have a new owner.
    If they are willing to invest more into it, your on a good roll.

  13. #93
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Game is not over just because they have a new owner.
    If they are willing to invest more into it, your on a good roll.
    PA isn't going to invest in CCP. They've bought it :P That's the investment, that's done. Payday is for shareholders. Meet financial targets -> release next budget step. Budget which CCP never thought of as anything other than their own ISK.


    It is kinda cute how desperately Falcon tries to spin the whole thing as "a gaming company with money to spend bought us". Seriously, almost cute. PA is publicly traded. It just makes money of a sure-fire growth market segment after having stumbled in it much like CCP once did.

    CCP has to follow directives, meet targets, while making its own budget. Pure and simple. Which is fine, thusfar CCP has managed that decently. Now if they hadn't sucked balls at trying to be artistic / awesome / diverse product studio it would've been very different.


    There's one huge practical difference now. The original shareholders were focused on dividend/ipo stuff. Hands-off relation. PA made one thing clear already, they set the financial targets. They control the money, they're hands-on. For some weird reason people seem to read odd things into the part of "meet target get money" bit. It's payments to shareholders departing, it's stepped budget release. It's not brain surgery. I don't get how people can think there's magic investment coming.

    Some staff seem to get it, in the sense of seeing how there is now way more pressure on CCP to perform. Which is exactly how it is. By simply buying the place, PA has upped the ante to a dynamic CCP has never operated under.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  14. #94
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Isn't Falcon Verone? He's always been a fucking idiot so that shouldn't surprise anyone.

  15. #95
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    PA didn't buy CCP to shut down EVE.
    They either see great value and potential in the company or its IP.

    GGG (Path of Exile) was bought up a year ago by Tencent and that has been a win for all parties.

    Nobody is spending tons of money buying a company to wreck it.

  16. #96
    Joshua Foiritain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Old ones, yes.

    New ones? Yes, and no. Increasingly no.
    Yeah fair enough. (I always forget the peasants exist lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    It is kinda cute how desperately Falcon tries to spin the whole thing as "a gaming company with money to spend bought us". Seriously, almost cute. PA is publicly traded. It just makes money of a sure-fire growth market segment after having stumbled in it much like CCP once did.
    Hehe well its not like he has much of a choice, the promises players want he cant give and its safe to assume regular employees have no idea what PA is planning for the future so really the only option he has to try and limit the autistic reeeeeing is to try and make the new boss sound nice

    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    PA didn't buy CCP to shut down EVE.
    They either see great value and potential in the company or its IP.

    GGG (Path of Exile) was bought up a year ago by Tencent and that has been a win for all parties.

    Nobody is spending tons of money buying a company to wreck it.
    I think most people aren't worried about them wrecking it on purpose but rather by accident because they assume that shoving P2W stuff into BDO worked out well from a money point of view it'll work on eve as well and then unironically make the game worse

    Then again maybe they bought CCP for the eve universe and the actual game has such a negative reputation they're going to actually murder it so they can make a more themeparky version



  17. #97
    Super Maderator DonorGlobal Moderator Hels's Avatar
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    Yeha, I think the previous investors, being just that, investors and not beholden to a proper board were actually better bosses to have.

    If you think about it, the parent company has a working model, whether or not the differences in the playerbase are taken into account or not. They have a method that has proven to work, seeing it cross over to Eve is not that big of a stretch. In the meantime, I'm liquidating and playing the game until it's proper fucked.

  18. #98
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post

    I think most people aren't worried about them wrecking it on purpose but rather by accident because they assume that shoving P2W stuff into BDO worked out well from a money point of view it'll work on eve as well and then unironically make the game worse

    Then again maybe they bought CCP for the eve universe and the actual game has such a negative reputation they're going to actually murder it so they can make a more themeparky version
    Which really is kinda funny. The fixation on P2W is silly. The problem is not P2W. The problem is the sliding scale of Pay-to-Accomodate. You can't end up with P2W in a development or management curve if you don't have P2A.

    They didn't buy it for EVE. They bought it for money. I know Falcon is trying stupendously hard to establish the narrative of "bought by game company", but it's ... insane. PA's an investment management, publicly traded, which uses the games industry. They had one entry point for one market, now they can expand on that, and they have another entry point for another market. It's as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hels View Post
    Yeha, I think the previous investors, being just that, investors and not beholden to a proper board were actually better bosses to have.

    If you think about it, the parent company has a working model, whether or not the differences in the playerbase are taken into account or not. They have a method that has proven to work, seeing it cross over to Eve is not that big of a stretch. In the meantime, I'm liquidating and playing the game until it's proper fucked.

    Depends on how you look at it.

    If you look at it from a strict product level angle, oh yes. They were hands-off in that regard, because they were focused on diversification of their investment.

    If you look at it from a more appropriate venture angle however, it is a little different. They were also hands-off here, until the moment Hilmar could not deliver according to directives set.


    Which is something that already began in 2012 with the rather impressive false narratives on the bond / ipo drama. The really funny bit is how Hilmar used Reid back then to spin shit for both founders, employees and investors. Reid had no clue. There's a very interesting and consistant pattern over the years. While Hilmar has done a remarkable job at, as people in the AMA call it, boiling frogs with changing EVE, there's a direct line of impact cases following his project decisions. But well, can't get rid of someone if you buy the bullshit and there's lots of icelandic banking and corporate structure shenanigans in the way :P The bonds issue remained a constant issue, always at minimum a dagger hanging over people's heads. Constantly having the scrounge and squeeze to pay off the next part, until the big crunch came where that stumbled, and bonds were converted to stock. Which came to head already in march 2015 with Siggi cleaning house.


    Someone here, at the time, remarked that if Valkyrie was not going to be a succes, either EVE or CCP would get sold for pennies. Which was indeed the benchmark for determining capital flow value.
    Hilmar fucked that up massively, not on purpose, but really just because it was something they wanted to be awesome with while rushing by reality checks demonstrating the absence of required market conditions. Sigi let him. Always been an interesting few moments there.


    Add a number of other but exactly the same type of drama cases, and you end up in a situation where investors get hands-on. Effectively speaking, CCP's failings created the stimuli for its shareholders to revisit directives and prospects.

    Which is why CCP got sold for pennies.



    I know, lots of narrative on an awesome sale and all that. And it is a decent enough payday, for owners of the right type of shares. But it is for pennies. 225 million is the price. The rest is deferred payment, with a lot of spin on who would get paid :P


    If you consider dividends as main interest, the payday is decent. If you consider value after costs for a company which is how old exactly? Then it's painful. To say the least.

    It's not strange or unique that a studio has to achieve set targets in order for its departing investors to receive deferred payments. It isn't weird either that some shareholders are more equal than others. And that ultimately that will paint an ugly picture. It's the rule rather.


    Anyway, 225 mil is pennies. It's really a slap in the face of the idea of a company which has worked so long to build up so .... eh ... much ... But of all scenario's, is the best left.


    Not that there was much of other options. I know, Falcon, but come on. How stupid can you be if you work in marketing to think that you're somehow magically excempt from having that applied to you, knowing how oldies were already constantly trying to knock the legs out from underneath each other.



    Still, it keeps coming back to a fundamental change in circumstances, conditions and relationship. From hands-off, to hands-on.

    Now here's a bit of irony. In order for EVE not to change fundamentally, Hilmar & co will (while people are still there, spring cleaning is coming) have to bullshit PA the way they have been bullshitting each other and their employees for years. Knowing that PA eats bullshit for breakfast and trades in it publicly. But hey, 3 new games for the price of an entry point into a market? 225 mil is peanuts for that. Even if those 3 get fucked at some point. Cause underneath that hood is something most people seem to miss, entry into yet another market. The Chinese market. PA being South-Korean, island/iceland hopping and hitching a ride on a certain trade agreement makes 225 mil even less than peanuts as a cost :P Without exposure risk even :P And the oldies left still think they can bullshit PA if they have to :P


    Don't expect drastic change. While there's no honeymoon (got to love how better informed PA staff are on the reality behind CCP's dumb narratives than CCP staff), they're going to spend a lot of energy and time on building up exposure and engaging in experience / expertise / tech transfers. This however is also the kicker of it, you don't even need to be hands-on with directives and tasking strategy as an investor-owner. If you can create the conditions where a subset of you is constantly exposed to the translation of your policy constructs on monetisation into reality, humans being humans will do your work for you. Ideas are contaminants, they're just information units after all.

    Which makes the case, the direction of the change is as inevitable as it is unavoidable regardless of however it will come to be. Even if that does not end up in normalisation through EVE (and other things) what PA's vision encompasses, it will still fundamentally change EVE as people know it still. As Dancey put it, from game design and marketing based on emergent behaviour to Star Trek Online.

    Worst case, least worse case.


    So I can't fault people for switching to 3-6 month cycles. But it'll be interesting to see how the frogs continue to boil. Considering how people reacted when told that EVE was being packaged, I do think that they will ask politely "please Sir, can I have some more?".
    Last edited by Virtuozzo; September 12 2018 at 10:17:25 AM.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  19. #99
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    PA didn't buy CCP to shut down EVE.
    They either see great value and potential in the company or its IP.

    GGG (Path of Exile) was bought up a year ago by Tencent and that has been a win for all parties.

    Nobody is spending tons of money buying a company to wreck it.
    Yeah but Path of exile is a good game, supposedly.
    2/10/17 Greatposthellpurge never forget
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  20. #100
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    PA didn't buy CCP to shut down EVE.
    They either see great value and potential in the company or its IP.

    GGG (Path of Exile) was bought up a year ago by Tencent and that has been a win for all parties.

    Nobody is spending tons of money buying a company to wreck it.
    Yeah but Path of exile is a good game, supposedly.
    its on all platforms as well afaik
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

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