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Thread: National Brotherhood Week (USA Civil Unrest Thread)

  1. #881
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    here, is one excessively wordy and nerdy far left take on what's going on and where it's going to end up.

    puts it far better than i can tho.

    There is... a lot wrong with that image.

    To start with, this is by no means the largest protest movement in American history. It is still much smaller than the mid-and-early 20th century unrest periods. There are a lot of people out, but we're not yet at the "millions of people in the streets" level. The post-election and post-inauguration protests were much larger than this. I attended the Seattle protest yesterday, it was maybe the third or fourth largest I've attended in a decade of living here. Of course it was also pissing rain, which depresses turnout, but still.

    I am still on the "this is just another protest" bandwagon. I don't think you'll hit critical mass unless you combine the issues of police violence and electoral/governmental legitimacy, i.e. in November in the aftermath of a Trump victory (under any circumstances) or Trump's refusal to concede, or with a Biden victory under some circumstances.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; May 31 2020 at 09:44:47 PM.

  2. #882
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    Hammer and sickle might be a giveaway it's going to take a lot of liberty with facts and reality.

  3. #883
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Here's a little less nerdy and wordy godknowswhatsideofthepoliticalspectrumiamanymore, uptist?, take on where it's going to end up:

    A lot of scumbags are gonna use this opportunity to profit themselves.
    A lot of protesters and cops are going to get hurt.
    A lot of damage to property. Unfortunately, a lot of that property is going to belong to people who have nothing to do with this shitshow and they're gonna suffer. The corporations and their property are going to be inconvenienced for a while until they claim insurance, the losers are going to be people who used to work or live in these properties.
    Lots of laws that will turn USA into an even more of a police state, punishments for protesters, revoked unemployment benefits and similar punishments based on video evidence.
    A long period of generally increased violence, even less good police work and a downward spiral until some serious 360 happens in US politics, which might be never or not in the near future.
    An increase in people's self organizing, both on the left and right side of the spectrum, with all good and terrible things that entails.
    Until the next disaster.
    ???
    RESOURCE WARS

    aaand this just popped up on my youtubes, should be fun

    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; May 31 2020 at 09:48:33 PM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  4. #884
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Can we please stop with the nonsense about property owners suffering. The *vast* majority of businesses, including their real property, inventory, etc. are insured. The costs of a loss incurred by protest or riot is literally priced into the goods and services they provide.

    It is true that not every business owner carries adequate insurance, and it is possible that destruction of a shop could force the permanent closure of some small businesses, but this is not the majority instance. Especially given that the majority of the looting is directed at chain retail operations.

  5. #885
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    here, is one excessively wordy and nerdy far left take on what's going on and where it's going to end up.

    puts it far better than i can tho.

    There is... a lot wrong with that image.

    To start with, this is by no means the largest protest movement in American history. It is still much smaller than the mid-and-early 20th century unrest periods. There are a lot of people out, but we're not yet at the "millions of people in the streets" level. The post-election and post-inauguration protests were much larger than this. I attended the Seattle protest yesterday, it was maybe the third or fourth largest I've attended in a decade of living here. Of course it was also pissing rain, which depresses turnout, but still.

    I am still on the "this is just another protest" bandwagon. I don't think you'll hit critical mass unless you combine the issues of police violence and electoral/governmental legitimacy, i.e. in November in the aftermath of a Trump victory (under any circumstances) or Trump's refusal to concede, or with a Biden victory under some circumstances.
    it's not just police violence, it's 40 million unemployed, it's a COVID response that can be described as "FUCK YOU!" to anybody in the lower income brackets and it's the completely ineffectual federal government and leadership.

    i would agree with you if there was somebody marginally competent at the reins in the white house, but that hardly describes Trump who is, if anything, escalating as hard as he can.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  6. #886
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Looking at historical revolutions, I'd propose a single question where the answer will tell you if this brings proper change or not.

    Are large parts of the population starving?

    No?

    Then nothing will change.
    nevar forget

  7. #887
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Here's a little less nerdy and wordy godknowswhatsideofthepoliticalspectrumiamanymore, uptist?, take on where it's going to end up:

    A lot of scumbags are gonna use this opportunity to profit themselves.
    A lot of protesters and cops are going to get hurt.
    A lot of damage to property. Unfortunately, a lot of that property is going to belong to people who have nothing to do with this shitshow and they're gonna suffer. The corporations and their property are going to be inconvenienced for a while until they claim insurance, the losers are going to be people who used to work or live in these properties.
    Lots of laws that will turn USA into an even more of a police state, punishments for protesters, revoked unemployment benefits and similar punishments based on video evidence.
    A long period of generally increased violence, even less good police work and a downward spiral until some serious 360 happens in US politics, which might be never or not in the near future.
    An increase in people's self organizing, both on the left and right side of the spectrum, with all good and terrible things that entails.
    Until the next disaster.
    ???
    RESOURCE WARS

    aaand this just popped up on my youtubes, should be fun

    Jimmy Dore is terrible. You really should stop watching this crap. It;s hot take after hot take and doesn't reflect reality, other than what whomever his handlers are, want you to see.

    Get yourself some real truth from the community, with the best peoples radio station out of Berkeley.

    https://kpfa.org/

    The truth.
    meh

  8. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Looking at historical revolutions, I'd propose a single question where the answer will tell you if this brings proper change or not.

    Are large parts of the population starving?

    No?

    Then nothing will change.

  9. #889
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Looking at historical revolutions, I'd propose a single question where the answer will tell you if this brings proper change or not.

    Are large parts of the population starving?

    No?

    Then nothing will change.
    Clearly potato is to blame.
    meh

  10. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    I can't remember when I posted it, way back when Trump got elected, but I think I posted something along the lines of "gg no re USA" or some shit like that.

    It really was the beginning of the end for USA, unfortunately. It was on the horizon for a long time, but the "American Dream" still existed as a possibility. I had a really bad suspicion things were gonna end up just like this and am not looking forward to things escalating across the planet in the next couple of years

    I hope as hell I'm just a pessimistic depressive misanthrope and will be proven wrong in the end, but at this point I'm kinda thinking it would probably be the smartest idea to invest in some weapons, buy shitloads of cans and get ready for doomsday so I can live for at least a week in the postnuclear hellscape before the mutants get me.
    Thanks for your tip about stocking up on toilet roll
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  11. #891
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    One of the tenets of prepping is not letting others know what to do, otherwise they get your toilet paper
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  12. #892
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Looking at historical revolutions, I'd propose a single question where the answer will tell you if this brings proper change or not.

    Are large parts of the population starving?

    No?

    Then nothing will change.
    People were not starving during the outbreak of the English Civil War, the American Revolution, French Revolution, or the 1848 revolutions. In France and 1848, there had been a period of food scarcity or famine in years prior to the revolutions (worse in the 1840s than the 1780s), but not at the time they started, and less acute among the revolutionary classes. 1905 Russian revolution was not adjacent to a famine; the 1917 revolution had widespread material deprivation from the Great War. Food scarcity is not necessary for a political revolution.

    Also, have you seen the food bank lines in the US?

    https://www.motherjones.com/food/202...cross-america/

    https://www.vox.com/2020/5/9/2125189...lines-pandemic

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/n...nj-hunger.html

    https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/...od-poll-finds/

  13. #893
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Can we please stop with the nonsense about property owners suffering. The *vast* majority of businesses, including their real property, inventory, etc. are insured. The costs of a loss incurred by protest or riot is literally priced into the goods and services they provide.

    It is true that not every business owner carries adequate insurance, and it is possible that destruction of a shop could force the permanent closure of some small businesses, but this is not the majority instance. Especially given that the majority of the looting is directed at chain retail operations.
    they're insured so it's fine wooooooooooo

    ignoring financial implications most SME's are run by a handful of people over a long period of time, and for retail at least tend to serve the same people each week, from the same small radius. but we don't care about their effort and sweat because they're insured? assuming they even get a pay out, their premiums are going through the roof through no fault of their own, and not for anything connected to the valid protest against police brutality in the US.

  14. #894
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Can we please stop with the nonsense about property owners suffering. The *vast* majority of businesses, including their real property, inventory, etc. are insured. The costs of a loss incurred by protest or riot is literally priced into the goods and services they provide.

    It is true that not every business owner carries adequate insurance, and it is possible that destruction of a shop could force the permanent closure of some small businesses, but this is not the majority instance. Especially given that the majority of the looting is directed at chain retail operations.
    they're insured so it's fine wooooooooooo

    ignoring financial implications most SME's are run by a handful of people over a long period of time, and for retail at least tend to serve the same people each week, from the same small radius. but we don't care about their effort and sweat because they're insured? assuming they even get a pay out, their premiums are going through the roof through no fault of their own, and not for anything connected to the valid protest against police brutality in the US.
    Empathy is a very funny thing on this forum, when it is given and to whom and who attacks who over it.


  15. #895
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post

    No revolution in either country in 1976. Thank you for proving my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Looking at historical revolutions, I'd propose a single question where the answer will tell you if this brings proper change or not.

    Are large parts of the population starving?

    No?

    Then nothing will change.
    People were not starving during the outbreak of the English Civil War, the American Revolution, French Revolution, or the 1848 revolutions. In France and 1848, there had been a period of food scarcity or famine in years prior to the revolutions (worse in the 1840s than the 1780s), but not at the time they started, and less acute among the revolutionary classes. 1905 Russian revolution was not adjacent to a famine; the 1917 revolution had widespread material deprivation from the Great War. Food scarcity is not necessary for a political revolution.

    Also, have you seen the food bank lines in the US?

    https://www.motherjones.com/food/202...cross-america/

    https://www.vox.com/2020/5/9/2125189...lines-pandemic

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/n...nj-hunger.html

    https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/...od-poll-finds/
    The American Revolution wasn't a revolution but a war for independence. That's a difference.

    The French Revolution definitely started due to food shortages.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%..._on_Versailles

    Following poor harvests, the deregulation of the grain market implemented by Turgot, Louis XVI's Controller-General of Finances, in 1774, was a main cause of the famine which led to the Flour War in 1775.[1] At the end of the Ancien Régime, the fear of famine became an ever-present dread for the lower strata of the Third Estate, and rumors of the "Pacte de Famine" to starve the poor were still rampant and readily believed.[2] Mere rumors of food shortage led to the Réveillon riots in April 1789. Rumors of a plot aiming to destroy wheat crops in order to starve the population provoked the Great Fear in the summer of 1789.
    The Flour War of 1775 was still on everyone's mind in 1789.

    The 1848 revolutions weren't successful due to a lack of public support. One could argue that the people weren't hungry enough to fight it through.

    The English Civil War was a result of a breach of constitutional law by King Charles I, the culmination of centuries worth of squabbles between the kings and the parliament.

    I would also like to point to Algeria and Syria, where a food price increases caused large scale demonstrations and riots. In Syria this was a large factor leading to the current civil war.
    nevar forget

  16. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    thanks for the ted talk, but you're still wrong nerd

  17. #897
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    Semitrailer speeds into crowd of George Floyd protesters on Minneapolis bridge; injuries unclear

    A semitrailer sped into a crowd of people protesting the death of George Floyd on Sunday, video showed. The driver was in custody and injuries were unclear.

    This is a developing story; check back for updates.
    FOX, so could be bullshit. If not.....


  18. #898
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    thanks for the ted talk, but you're still wrong nerd
    Compelling critique. You’ve won me over.
    meh

  19. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    thanks for the ted talk, but you're still wrong nerd
    Compelling critique. You’ve won me over.
    That's right

  20. #900

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    So the current protests aren't the seeds of revolution, the people in the street simply want independence from the corporate machine.

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