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Thread: [DEVBLOG] nex retail pricing strategy

  1. #161
    Aurora148's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrieee View Post
    Your SHC sigs were way better btw, please get a new one
    His lip movements are a very bad match too

  2. #162
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash2k7 View Post
    Partly it's the "you idiots wasted your dev resources on this???"

    Partly it's that to keep the sandbox going we need CCP to succeed and NeX does not look like success. Spaceships only get better if the vikings are kept in hookers and blow and their new projects become successes so that EVE can now get 75% of its revenues devoted to it instead of 35%.

    Raging at CCP fucking up ways to extract more money from players is fully aligned with people's interests even if they'd never use any bit of space barbies and hope to never see Incarna.
    Has nobody wondered yet what specifically the experiment is really for? Most people simply assume it is EVE. And while I can see some very typical signs of CCP engaging on something which will force them to allocate disproportionally higher resources to this path, that's not the focus here.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  3. #163
    T.Faetal's Avatar
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    ccp needs a lesson in engrish and learn to understand what the fuck "micro" stands for lol, who the fuck is gonna be spending $120 on an outfit, i dont even own any fucking clothes in real life worth that much.

  4. #164
    kyrieee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora148 View Post
    Oops
    Still, change sig :P

  5. #165
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrieee View Post
    How can we not rage?



    This is fucking EVE-Online! Where did things go wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    This! Fucking this! Talking about frilly dresses and bloody heels! What the fuck is wrong with these people! Dark and harsh world! Anyone remember that one? I bloody well ashamed to have ever been related to this game! Keep saying "It's real" morons!


    To be fair, Oveur started that trend =P

    All we're missing now is blowup dolls for plex and spandex for aurum.
    Last edited by Virtuozzo; July 8 2011 at 05:51:51 PM.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  6. #166
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Is this a riddle?
    What is the service model of Dust 514 based on, and that of WoD ......

    Most companies do pilots, research, test projects, seperate commercial projects under same or different brand, that kind of stuff, to develop an experience base. CCP does it with its cash cow. Got to admit, it is ballsy....
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  7. #167
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    What is the service model of Dust 514 based on, and that of WoD ......

    Most companies do pilots, research, test projects, seperate commercial projects under same or different brand, that kind of stuff, to develop an experience base. CCP does it with its cash cow. Got to admit, it is ballsy....
    It's not like they have anything else right now.
    meh

  8. #168
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    Yes, and our input/suggestions were ignored...
    Like... Seriously? Again?! After this has happened with every single devblog in this cycle of shit and they still and again don't?! Aren't you guys starting to feel like you're beeing shit upon? Out of curiousity and in case you can talk without getting NDA-gagged: What things did you address/suggest?

    Edit: I should have refreshed the page before posting -.-
    Last edited by Madner Kami; July 8 2011 at 06:04:48 PM.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    You just don't understand: EVE is real ...
    Shame CCP didn't and continue to show no understanding of what, exactly, that means either.

  10. #170
    Gunni's Avatar
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    new stuff on nex store
    clear cache if you dont see it

    nightstalker goggles o/

  11. #171
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    There was some discussion about the value of ISK in regards to Eve lore.
    I'm against any form of MT in Eve because it breaks immersion no matter how it's implemented, but the current pricing is incredibly stupid.

    Ok, so Zulu said that designer jeans from Japan cost 10000 $US, so why not pay 10k $ for a designer pixel jeans?

    I decided to play with this analogy:
    VLCC class bulk carrier costs about 120m $ US IRL(the biggest and most expensive bulk carrier that I could find).
    Japanese designer jeans cost 10k $ US IRL - that's 0.008333333% of the price of a VLCC freighter.

    If Haron is the in game equivalent of VLCC bulk carrier then:
    Haron costs 830,000,000.00 ISK, so designer pixel jeans should cost 69,166.66 ISK

    If Badger Mk II is the in game equivalent of VLCC bulk carrier then:
    Badger Mk II costs 700,000.00 ISK, so designer pixel jeans should cost 58.33 ISK

    If Badger Mk I is the in game equivalent of VLCC bulk carrier then:
    Badger costs 314,000.00 ISK, so designer pixel jeans should cost 26.17 ISK

    Retarded? Sure is! But not as retarded as the bullshit that CCP is peddling.

  12. #172
    Donor Airow's Avatar
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    lol ^^ not gonna read it all because pretty sure someone wrote down my thoughts already. Happy right now that I unsubbed in January. More money for steam

  13. #173
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomToon View Post
    There was some discussion about the value of ISK in regards to Eve lore.
    I'm against any form of MT in Eve because it breaks immersion no matter how it's implemented, but the current pricing is incredibly stupid.

    Ok, so Zulu said that designer jeans from Japan cost 10000 $US, so why not pay 10k $ for a designer pixel jeans?

    I decided to play with this analogy:
    VLCC class bulk carrier costs about 120m $ US IRL(the biggest and most expensive bulk carrier that I could find).
    Japanese designer jeans cost 10k $ US IRL - that's 0.008333333% of the price of a VLCC freighter.

    If Haron is the in game equivalent of VLCC bulk carrier then:
    Haron costs 830,000,000.00 ISK, so designer pixel jeans should cost 69,166.66 ISK

    If Badger Mk II is the in game equivalent of VLCC bulk carrier then:
    Badger Mk II costs 700,000.00 ISK, so designer pixel jeans should cost 58.33 ISK

    If Badger Mk I is the in game equivalent of VLCC bulk carrier then:
    Badger costs 314,000.00 ISK, so designer pixel jeans should cost 26.17 ISK

    Retarded? Sure is! But not as retarded as the bullshit that CCP is peddling.
    Dude, EVE is a premium experience. This is gonna be awesome, you will see. We're going to have lots of content, and amazing features with tons of people buying awesome pixels that look far better than any other pixels anywhere in the gaming industry. Trust me, it is gonna be awesome. We know what we're doing. Let's take it step by step, use a lot of buzzwords, throw some people at the wolves to munch on, and in the mean time we DELIVER and sell EXCELLENCE.



    Sorry, could not resist for a moment =/
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  14. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madner Kami View Post
    Like... Seriously? Again?! After this has happened with every single devblog in this cycle of shit and they still and again don't?! Aren't you guys starting to feel like you're beeing shit upon? Out of curiousity and in case you can talk without getting NDA-gagged: What things did you address/suggest?

    Edit: I should have refreshed the page before posting -.-
    We said, both in Iceland and in response to the draft, that they needed to be a hell of a lot more apologetic about not communicating their pricing strategy clearly. We also said that shit like the 3600 AUR clothes were a slap in the face, and I think they have fixed that. Our advice for this blog was to show pics of upcoming stuff that would fit into the different tiers, and try to explain why something was low vs medium tier.

    One thing I have learned on the CSM is to not take being ignored personally. Part of that is understanding that if I had a bunch of whiny demanding customers looking over my every move at my RL job I would be kinda pissed. Part of that is understanding what some folks (not necessarily you) don't, which is that like it or not, we don't have veto power over what CCP does. If they want to release clothing at what is still insane pricing, nothing the CSM says is going to stop them.

    What bothers me most is that, as Zinfandel says, this is an experiment for them, both for EVE and for WoD/DUST. For some reason they seem to be leaving out the "what if we actually made stuff cheap" part of their experiment. They also seemed to have been trying to draw some conclusions from the very small data set they had of people who bought stuff, which is kinda worrying (especially because their demographic information is useless because some people will buy them to resell on the market).

  15. #175

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    At first glance, I was tempted to join the bitching about the rent being too damn high. But then I realized that you're all being stupid and I'd much rather macro-transactions that nobody will bother with, rather then a successful business model based on micro-transactions.

    (CCP's arrogance aside, mind you)
    Last edited by Hydro; July 8 2011 at 06:25:16 PM.

  16. #176
    Dodgy Past's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittervet View Post
    Gallente are, like it or not, the poster child of EVE. The Tristan has been and continues to be used heavily in promotional material (the Brutix, Vexor, Thorax and Megathron have also been used for such). The intro video's during character creation describe them as "the one true democracy in New Eden" (it should say "drugged up hedonists with a love of transparent clothing" as well but whatever). It is a logical assumption that any new player would aim for this race. So their first encounter with EVE is choosing the race featured in promotional material and finding it... broken. That most certainly can not be helping retention.
    Good point, a surprising number of people I come across who've just started have gone for Gallente, normally the first thing I tell them is to switch to either Caldari or Minmatar depending on what they think they want to do.

  17. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Has nobody wondered yet what specifically the experiment is really for? Most people simply assume it is EVE. And while I can see some very typical signs of CCP engaging on something which will force them to allocate disproportionally higher resources to this path, that's not the focus here.
    I thought there was unanimity that this was a WoD test bed with some applicability for how to integrate Dust MT with Eve. 0% spaceships.

    Your second sentence is incomprehensible even after applying the normal virt filters

  18. #178
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    What bothers me most is that, as Zinfandel says, this is an experiment for them, both for EVE and for WoD/DUST. For some reason they seem to be leaving out the "what if we actually made stuff cheap" part of their experiment. They also seemed to have been trying to draw some conclusions from the very small data set they had of people who bought stuff, which is kinda worrying (especially because their demographic information is useless because some people will buy them to resell on the market).
    Ok, this may perhaps sound a little strange at first, but CCP and the people that formed it have been around doing stuff for a while now. Quite a while actually.

    I understand that this is frustrating, but this is how they roll. I am not saying this is how they work, because a lot of this always is done while winging it. Even when CCP switched from waterfall to scrum, they still refused to buffer against that tendency (the documentation issue, feature creep drama, and so forth) by means of due diligence and a few simple things which are neither "too corporate" nor rocket science.

    Zinfandel may at some point figure out what y'all are saying. But even then there is no point in that interaction. He is a passthrough mechanism, to those who make the decisions. And this is a topic of strategic interest, not the product level of Arnar. Yes, it affects him, yes he makes decisions in regards to execution, etc. But strategic interest always supercedes the product level.

    We've seen the same tendencies dozens and dozens of times before. Even when they hit it off with due diligence, there is always that point where CCP circles the wagons and only engages in self affirmation of any information that supports its desired targets. Sofar on a business level they have been bloody fortunate that they have such a strong golden goose (taking that for granted was btw something which I must admit disgusted me, since as a company you stand on the shoulders of people who work their asses off for it, and who do not influence strategic interests but only depend on the manner in which those are handled and managed) with such a strong foundation embedded in its operational principles.
    As I have said before, CCP is an a position of luxury with EVE Online. That is what has protected them from an enormous series of decisions solely based on opinionated convictions. Got to be honest, over the years it's been hard to not notice how CCP engage in research, and suddenly *magic* a buzzword is picked and 6 months later they have replaced the actual industry standard definition with something someone somewhere concocted without even checking. I still facedesk over their ecosystem presentation a few years ago, but that was hardly the worst incident.

    Here's the thing. They don't have to do any due diligence, they don't have to deal with customer concerns, unless either they or customers create an NGE moment. Until that time, CCP will do what it pleases, and miss solid opportunities for awesome and growth and innovation, seize some opportunities and deliver half of it, and roll with a lot of other stuff they see elsewhere but they just want to press their mark on it.

    It is not by evil intent. Far from. People on the workfloor care about their job. Well, aside of those who don't actually work there, but that is a topic in its own right which really is just for CCP to go in to, not us. And with a few exceptions, they also care quite a bit upstairs. But the distance between the various points of the equasion has grown so huge, that it has created little kingdoms, stone tablets, and segregated communications. This is a process which reinforces itself, and which seeks out any means to further reinforce itself. It is a CEO's nightmare, and usually the CEO is the last to find out.

    But really, this is just how they roll. Top down. You're just not dealing with a level at CCP that has any influence on these matters. Zinfandel has no mandate there. This is a strategic interest topic. Creative director level, corporate financial planning, inner circle connections and so forth.

    I have to be blunt unfortunately, but in all this we can't even speak of "CCP". It's too stretched out, even if all noses are worked to point the same way out of some new fear of the customer who is evil. Their challenges are not very typical challenges, they are the normal shit any startup goes through, and reinventing the wheel is not necessary. It just boggles the mind. They have everything a company in this industry could want to be exactly what they claim to be and then some. I mean that. In every respect. CCP can have it all, together with its products and its customers, conquering the world while being awesome, excellent, transparant, fearless, and so forth even different and unique. But each time they just roll with a theme and along the road processes break as they are just not buffered against the human element and natural growth.

    Ok, so much for that glass being half full. But as I said, unless either CCP or its customers create an NGE moment, they will get away with it. That is fine, that is their right. But it does kill their dream, but it will be a decade until that sinks in through walls of self affirmative messaging (and when dreams die it is never the top that pays the actual price .. ). It puts them to the test really, do they want to be different, and conquer the world. Or do they just want to be yet another studio which just stands out because once upon a time it had a golden goose which laid them such grand golden eggs that those who got bored couldn't just do stuff elsewhere, but actually new awesome stuff. And in one case already, properly done awesome stuff. EVE shares its resources yes, EVE is again the experiment. What a shame.

    Anyway, enough about that. I wonder what Zinfandel has learned by now from the feedback thread, or is it by any chance friday evening.
    Last edited by Virtuozzo; July 8 2011 at 06:51:17 PM.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  19. #179
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash2k7 View Post
    I thought there was unanimity that this was a WoD test bed with some applicability for how to integrate Dust MT with Eve. 0% spaceships.

    Your second sentence is incomprehensible even after applying the normal virt filters
    Simple. They used to enable customers do create trends. Now they are shifting gear to creating trends themselves. That means they have to allocate resources to that.
    By pushing that, they create a niche. If the niche is important enough as experiment / experience base for use in Dust, and / or if it is even slightly rewarding (not just financially), they will have to allocate more resources to it. CCP has limited resources, where will they get those from. They can't keep outsourcing ...

    They are taking the risk of unwittingly forcing themselves to go even further on the road of microtransactions. Considering they again ignored CSM feedback, the likelyhood of that leading to excess is growing step by step.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  20. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Frankly, I no longer have a clue what it means either. Apparently it has something to do with being there.

    There was also something with trembling hands, but I don't know about you, but I don't get an adrenaline rush while reading about the cute heels that are coming up.

    No, seriously, I have no clue what it means either ...
    For those wondering. EVE has a pulse, being driven by players means anything that happens of note is usually because a bunch of players did it. What CCP are saying (in my opinion) is EVE is literally real. I don't know about you but I don't have a set of sockets nor easy access to a FTL capable starship.

    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    Our advice for this blog was to show pics of upcoming stuff that would fit into the different tiers, and try to explain why something was low vs medium tier.
    Now that's something I'd like to know as well. Not in the CCP "EVE is literally real" sense of :lolrp: but in the "this costs x because y amount of dev time went in to it and we think that's fair" sense.

    I doubt I am ever going to get that and will be regailed with more marketing idiots, who've snorted Route 1's worth of coke trying to convince me they actually fly a mile long & heavily armed starship to work everyday.

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