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Thread: The real reasons player population is declining

  1. #21
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Carebears left because pve is shit and they were out competed by bots which drives down the rewards across the board.

    The people who like the 100 man corp stuff quit because they can't compete with entities of thousands on an economic scale, and replacing ships using shitty pve with ever diminishing returns gets pretty tiresome. Plus their previously target rich environments are mostly now empty or just bots farming the shitty procedural pve.

    The guys in the mega alliances get bored because nothing ever happens unless their fc organise a fight with a frenemy where no one really has any skin in the game.

    This is how eve dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  2. #22
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Eve is dying gaiz

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  3. #23
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Carebears left because pve is shit and they were out competed by bots which drives down the rewards across the board.

    The people who like the 100 man corp stuff quit because they can't compete with entities of thousands on an economic scale, and replacing ships using shitty pve with ever diminishing returns gets pretty tiresome. Plus their previously target rich environments are mostly now empty or just bots farming the shitty procedural pve.

    The guys in the mega alliances get bored because nothing ever happens unless their fc organise a fight with a frenemy where no one really has any skin in the game.

    This is how eve dies.
    /nods well said.


  4. #24
    Sacul's Avatar
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    Truelly spoken by someone who doesnt play and hasnt for years.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn LENNY2 met Tapatalk
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  5. #25

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    Playerbase is too old and low-energy. New players are needed desperately.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    I think he means the ways to shrug off lowsec gate guns by warping to a ping and back, which has been unintended BS since CW 2.0, and there's probably still an exploit edge-case where you can warp the same tick as your aggro & you won't even appear to have an LE/combat logoff timer with the target player, so they don't know they're as vulnerable to you the other side of a gate (have a vid of someone doing it to me somewhere, CCP's bug reporter crashed on attaching it).

    nah this nerd actually thinks the game turns you into a bad human being because you lose an agression timer after a certain period and your "bad record" is forgotten and therefor you learn a pattern of doing bad w/o consequences lmao
    I was not comenting on the quality of people. I was just saying that the game was loosing the spaces where aggressive behaviour is punished. This decreased ecosystem lost a part of the population.

  7. #27
    Clovnea's Avatar
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    I also agree with what keckers said but i wanted to post that because everytime a carrebear posts there are tens rhat jump to tell him that he does not understand EvE. I think this is wrong and that a better EvE is an ecosystem that can acomodate as many tipologies as possible.

  8. #28
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clovnea View Post
    I also agree with what keckers said but i wanted to post that because everytime a carrebear posts there are tens rhat jump to tell him that he does not understand EvE. I think this is wrong and that a better EvE is an ecosystem that can acomodate as many tipologies as possible.
    Sure, but welcome to the human race & all that. Toxic folks are more verbal than normal people. Who also can be assholes, cuz, everybody's got one anyway so shit will come out at some point. It's a bit like a banking boardroam really, in order to get kicks you have to be toxic, and sure in the end you shoot yourself in the foot but that's way outside the scope - plus there's whales and minions you can make carry the costs anyway.


    It's a funny thing really. Kickstarting EVE worked because it was a raw social dynamic where people went deeper as it was all pixels instead of people. Nobody remember beta's of how shit it was but why it worked? (holy shit those patch drama's) That pretty much replicated 9th century Iceland online (no joke, target formulated at the time). Chaos, theater, stupidity, room for developing organised predatory behaviour. Next cycle was farmers though, and sheep. Lots of sheep. No more vikings. By the time CCP started to boast about emergent dynamics and realistic behavioural economics EVE was a decent sized town, after killing off Yulai as the church / market center of the village basically. And with CCPians pretending to be vikings but instead being absent farmers (or worse, sheep with white powdered noses) they totaly missed the whole predator/farmer/builder dynamic.

    Trouble is, that town stage is where you have to reinforce socio-economic structures to be in line with changing behaviour, regardless of whether that's positive, negative, compensating for whatever or feeding of stuff. Whatever form of shape, less important. Deepening and broadening however is.

    CCP didn't do that. They got stuck in trauma. They stayed stuck until they finally figured out a way how to deal with that, and by that time they were still catching up with tech / industry evolution. Nobody remember the fanfests where oldtime CCP were expecting to be heroes and nobody even knew who the fuck they were or how embarassing it was to see them not having a clue? Or expecting keynote applause while the audience went "dude, is .. that .. it ... ?"

    Long story short, CCP fucked EVE's demographics and development curve. Not a problem, still a pretty decent cash cow, but the crux of it isn't people leaving. That's like life, people fuck off and die. The crux is people not going to town or finding a well developed suburb of uncanny valley. Because EVE doesn't have that. There isn't a single niche fleshed out and maintained, there's no entropy, there's no triggers that push people to develop "life" beyond either a shallow first or second landing, or beyond player driven economies of scale mechanisms (feeders, recruitment, etc).

    EVE isn't an ecosystem. It is a collection of a bunch of niche environments connected by common mechanical frameworks. CCP's game design hasn't really offset the increased absence of player created ecosystem development across those niches. Now following long time throwaway Oveur, Hilmar claims that's the fault of his customers. Sayans had zero inclination of correcting him :P Decker had no clue wtf old CCP was hung up about anyway. Enter the road to "fuck stakeholders" and hello f2p with whales.

    EVE isn't dying. It can't, because it's no longer intended to become or be alive (duh, the ones who were actually good at frankenstein stuff have started to run away the past two years).
    It's just what it is in the books, an easy cheap cash cow that keeps giving as long as there's people who believe the advertisement while there's people who pay for shiny & gold. Seriously funny, the current route actually contains lootboxes in a few cycles as target for product development, well, hello reality.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Carebears left because pve is shit and they were out competed by bots which drives down the rewards across the board.
    I think the focus on forcing carebears into group carebear activities increased attrition. If you don't like the group activities, which are generally not very inherently fun, then you're an idiot because your solo alternative is less rewarding and an obvious dead end as CCP frowns on it.

    So play content you don't like, in a new playstyle that you don't enjoy, or play a different game.

    It's not a hard choice.

  10. #30
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post

    I think the focus on forcing carebears into group carebear activities increased attrition
    Heh. Yet the only one who *got* that was Beta, who ran off to Dice with a little help. If I remember correctly she even ran a FF panel on the topic at one point. She never got through the glass ceilings though. At least until Andie, who's indirectly ran into the same wall as Zinfandel (Hilmar intervention attitude ftl). Prolly best not to stir that up again tho.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    If you don't like the group activities, which are generally not very inherently fun, then you're an idiot because your solo alternative is less rewarding and an obvious dead end as CCP frowns on it.

    So play content you don't like, in a new playstyle that you don't enjoy, or play a different game.

    It's not a hard choice.
    But it is a business decision to direct product development along such paths. In many ways it's hilarious to see how much was spent on Art, as opposed to deeper/wider niche feature sets.

    For a casual gamer it's an easy decision really. Which is why CCP keeps tripping over publishing/advertising costings that are, frankly, structurally way more than it ought to be. Especially when factoring in secondary costs. At least now there's whale trawlers.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  11. #31
    root's Avatar
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    im a newbe , my experience for what its worth very much coincides with the captain though … iv only played on eve for a couple of months !!! That said ,In the real world iv got 40 years experience as a psychologist … And if there is one truth iv seen a thousand times is nobody wants to hear the truth about themselves, especially their shadows and dark side !! this game promotes and encourage,s “hyper capitalization” in the real world this has contributed to a “real world” ■■■■ show … So why the hell would any person with ethics want to “play” a game where thats what you do , prey and ■■■■ on other people !!! haha fricken ridiculous for most people with a conscious … and yea when I discovered this was eve , I left … period … But I love space sims and eve is amazing on this point … So im solo … doing my own thing … who knows how long that will last !!
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  12. #32
    Sacul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by root View Post
    im a newbe , my experience for what its worth very much coincides with the captain though … iv only played on eve for a couple of months !!! That said ,In the real world iv got 40 years experience as a psychologist … And if there is one truth iv seen a thousand times is nobody wants to hear the truth about themselves, especially their shadows and dark side !! this game promotes and encourage,s “hyper capitalization” in the real world this has contributed to a “real world” ■■■■ show … So why the hell would any person with ethics want to “play” a game where thats what you do , prey and ■■■■ on other people !!! haha fricken ridiculous for most people with a conscious … and yea when I discovered this was eve , I left … period … But I love space sims and eve is amazing on this point … So im solo … doing my own thing … who knows how long that will last !!
    Great writing skills for a psychologist.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  13. #33
    root's Avatar
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    A 60+ year old at that

    Though might not be a native Englishman.
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPilot View Post
    Playerbase is too old and low-energy. New players are needed desperately.
    We used to brag about how EVE as an MMO was so awesome because of the high median age. The problem is I think that age continues to rise. I'd love to get back into EVE. However I'm 30+ years old with career, hobbies, family. So I have to ask myself, "Log into EVE and maybe get a few kills over this hour of playtime? Or play 2-4 rounds of PUBG?"

  15. #35
    Fara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by root View Post
    im a newbe , my experience for what its worth very much coincides with the captain though … iv only played on eve for a couple of months !!! That said ,In the real world iv got 40 years experience as a psychologist … And if there is one truth iv seen a thousand times is nobody wants to hear the truth about themselves, especially their shadows and dark side !! this game promotes and encourage,s “hyper capitalization” in the real world this has contributed to a “real world” ■■■■ show … So why the hell would any person with ethics want to “play” a game where thats what you do , prey and ■■■■ on other people !!! haha fricken ridiculous for most people with a conscious … and yea when I discovered this was eve , I left … period … But I love space sims and eve is amazing on this point … So im solo … doing my own thing … who knows how long that will last !!
    Great writing skills for a psychologist.
    writes like a guy who smokes a lot of weed tbh

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPilot View Post
    Playerbase is too old and low-energy. New players are needed desperately.
    We used to brag about how EVE as an MMO was so awesome because of the high median age. The problem is I think that age continues to rise. I'd love to get back into EVE. However I'm 30+ years old with career, hobbies, family. So I have to ask myself, "Log into EVE and maybe get a few kills over this hour of playtime? Or play 2-4 rounds of PUBG?"
    You could join a super elite alliance and only log in for pings?

    Then you could always bring a cloaky support ship and when u get bored simply warp off

    It's what I do



  17. #37

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    Well, you need to
    a) get into such a group (generally nobody wants a semi-afk bittervet pilot, except you're friends w/ someone from that group)
    b) said group requires actual tryhard eventmakers, which eventually leave the game as well

    Other than that, yeah, there are couple niches like that in eve.

    The bulk of my gameplay since t3 rebalance has pretty much been

    1. Login into NPC 0.0 home system of a large chinese alliance, drop probes, afk/do something else
    2. scan down/kill l4 missioning gilas who dont seem to learn how to bait a single cloaky Loki
    3. log off

    https://zkillboard.com/character/134...oup/26/losses/

  18. #38
    root's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPilot View Post
    Playerbase is too old and low-energy. New players are needed desperately.
    We used to brag about how EVE as an MMO was so awesome because of the high median age. The problem is I think that age continues to rise.
    True, I don't know if it's a problem, but the mean/median age rises:

    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  19. #39
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    So .. basically if CCP were to want bitter vets to actually play they'd have to negotiate with their wives, ex-wives, mistresses and other types of bosses on behalf of the poor bitter vets?
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  20. #40

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    I'm curious, what is the server population like these days?

    tldr; is EVE dead yet?~~
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