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Thread: Gun Laws and Gun Rights Discussion

  1. #1341
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    To be fair, if any group got to the point where they started killing us, killing them next might be a rational response.
    "started"?

    How many more attacks do there have to be before it's "started" in your view?
    Several? Well, it is kinda nonsense anyway, because antifa aren't really killing people. And by the same logic we should already start killing white supremacists.
    Now your getting it

  2. #1342
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Gun groups see opportunity in NRA turmoil: http://www.startribune.com/gun-owner.../?refresh=true


    Bob Mokos is a passionate gun owner who on the surface would seem like a card-carrying National Rifle Association member.

    The retired airline pilot has been shooting guns since he was a child. The Vietnam veteran got more serious about firearms as a civilian after one of his sisters was fatally shot during a mugging in Chicago. After the 9/11 terror attacks, he became qualified to carry a gun in the cockpit.

    But Mokos has grown so disillusioned with the NRA over the years that he has joined forces with a rival organization — the gun control group founded by former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

    "The more gun owners I contacted, the more I found out that everybody is thinking the same thing: The NRA does not speak for us," said Mokos, who was a founder of the Minnesota Gun Owners for Safety.

    As the 2020 presidential campaign draws closer, gun control groups are seizing on the turmoil engulfing the NRA — as well as recent high profile shootings in Gilroy, California; El Paso, Texas; Dayton, Ohio, and this weekend's in Odessa and Midland, Texas — to court firearms owners in hopes of persuading them that there can be bipartisan solutions to gun violence that don't infringe on their Second Amendment rights.

    Giffords' group formed coalitions this year with gun owners in Colorado, Minnesota and Texas in outreach that managing director Robin Lloyd said was done expressly to show that not all gun owners believe in the NRA.

    "The fallacy that the NRA has perpetuated for so long is that you're either for the Second Amendment or you're for taking away people's guns," Lloyd told the AP.

    At the same time, various pro-gun organizations at the state level have been more active in staking their claim as the true defenders of the Second Amendment. Many of those advocates see the NRA as too focused on raking in donations to fuel a large organization out of touch with American gun owners.

    "I don't think anybody doubts, even the most ardent critics, that they're the biggest gun lobby on the block and probably will be still for the foreseeable future," said Greg Pruett, president of Idaho Second Amendment Alliance. "But I think a lot of people are starting to realize ... we have this large machine but it's not doing what we're paying it to do, so where do we turn in the meantime until they either get things cleaned up? Or is the NRA done in some regards and we're going to suffer the consequences of their bad leadership at the ballot box?"

    Long viewed as the most powerful gun lobby in the world, the NRA has been facing internal and external pressures over its operations and spending habits. Law enforcement authorities have launched probes that threaten its non-profit status and there has been a revolt by members who are questioning the NRA's finances and leadership.

    The group's former president, Oliver North, and its longtime top lobbyist have left.

    Among the headline-grabbing details are allegations that its longtime CEO, Wayne LaPierre, expensed hundreds of thousands of dollars in wardrobe purchases from a Hollywood clothier and spent thousands traveling on private jets.

    The NRA's problems have created fears among gun enthusiasts that rival organizations have found an opening to undermine the organization's mission to protect gun rights.

    "Those folks are openly saying we have to move now while the NRA is in turmoil. They are very much trying to take advantage of this," said Tom Gresham, who hosts the syndicated radio show, "Gun Talk."

    But gun control groups trying to court politically moderate firearms enthusiasts still have a long way to go to wield the same the power of the NRA.

    In the wake of massacres that killed 31 people in Texas and Ohio, LaPierre has demonstrated his sway over President Donald Trump and the Republican-led Senate, where Democratic-sponsored gun legislation faces a grim fate. Trump voiced support for universal background checks after the shootings but backtracked after a phone call with LaPierre.

    The NRA spent some $30 million to help elect Trump in 2016 and remains a powerful force lobbying politicians and government officials.

    In the first half of this year, the NRA spent $1.6 million lobbying Congress, the State and Justice Departments and other federal agencies on legislation that ranged from recreational shooting on federal lands to concealed firearms permits, according to disclosure records filed with the House and Senate.

    The NRA donated $4.1 million to candidates for federal office during the last four election cycles, with the bulk of the contributions going to Republican incumbents, according to figures compiled by the political money website Open Secrets. That figure pales in comparison to what the gun-rights group tallies on get-out-the-vote operations and advertising campaigns.

    And many gun-rights activists contend that even a weakened NRA may not matter when it comes to 2020 because the Democratic candidates for president have run so far to the left on guns during the primary. The vast majority of Democratic presidential candidates have called for a wide range of gun restrictions to be enacted.

    Pruett, of the Idaho Second Amendment Alliance, said that although gun owners have grown weary of the NRA's troubles, it won't require much effort to mobilize gun owners because of some of the gun control ideas the Democrats have proposed during the campaign.

    "The Democratic Party has gotten so radical on guns that it might actually help fuel a lot of gun owners getting out to vote and not necessarily have to rely on the NRA to get out to vote," Pruett said. "You'd really have to be oblivious to what's going on, and Donald Trump would be happy to remind you with every other tweet just how gun-grabbing they are."

    Alan Gottlieb is among the leaders of local Second Amendment groups that illustrate the divide between the NRA and the smaller organizations.

    The longtime NRA member in 1974 formed the Second Amendment Foundation with a goal of challenging gun restrictions in the courts. It has succeeded in getting two cases before the U.S. Supreme Court but among the general public, it toils in obscurity.

    "Let me put it this way: Wayne LaPierre's salary is more than our whole total payroll," he said.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  3. #1343
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, the SF legislature declares the NRA a domestic terrorist organization...

    https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx...D-287F02BECCCA

    Resolution declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist
    organization and urging other cities, states, and the federal government to do the
    same.
    meh

  4. #1344
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    My hope is that the NRA is weakened enough that a second organization can step in as a replacement, or maybe the NRA will clean up internally and get "back on track." The NRA isn't speaking for me and I don't trust the political system as it is to handle gun control properly. All the Democratic candidates discussing gun issues didn't even address gang violence during the debates, the primary source of gun violence, but many had hardons for banning rifles and suppressors and limiting magazine capacity (things that have almost no bearing on gang violence where almost all of it is using handguns). We see the mass shootings in the news when it's some army vet with PTSD or yet another school shooting, but the majority of mass shootings have been daily gang killings in major cities.

  5. #1345
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    Anything done to effectively reduce gang violence isn't going to be related to firearm legislation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  6. #1346

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Meanwhile, the SF legislature declares the NRA a domestic terrorist organization...

    https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx...D-287F02BECCCA

    Resolution declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist
    organization and urging other cities, states, and the federal government to do the
    same.
    I'm curious: has this any practical consequences or this this merely a symbolic act (which still is an interseting move)?

  7. #1347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Meanwhile, the SF legislature declares the NRA a domestic terrorist organization...

    https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx...D-287F02BECCCA

    Resolution declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist
    organization and urging other cities, states, and the federal government to do the
    same.
    I'm curious: has this any practical consequences or this this merely a symbolic act (which still is an interseting move)?
    This. Let's say I live in Black Butte, CA also have a shotgun and NRA membership. Will I be arrested on terrorism charges? Put under surveilance?

  8. #1348

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    Why am I not surprised one of the thickest posters to ever have graced this forum is an NRA member.

  9. #1349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Why am I not surprised one of the thickest posters to ever have graced this forum is an NRA member.
    Are you retarded? Please go shit in some other thread.

  10. #1350
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Why am I not surprised one of the thickest posters to ever have graced this forum is an NRA member.
    Are you retarded? Please go shit in some other thread.
    Special right wing snowflake needs a safe space nbs
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #1351
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Did you honestly assume from the question that I am in fact NRA member? Are you on crack? Or on spectrum? I'm nowhere near right wing. Nor American.

    Someone please answer as I am genuinely curious how the situation will be handled.

  12. #1352
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    dunno i'm just posting without paying much attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  13. #1353
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Meanwhile, the SF legislature declares the NRA a domestic terrorist organization...

    https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx...D-287F02BECCCA

    Resolution declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist
    organization and urging other cities, states, and the federal government to do the
    same.
    I'm curious: has this any practical consequences or this this merely a symbolic act (which still is an interseting move)?
    Everyone laughed at them when they banned plastic straws as well.
    meh

  14. #1354

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    With maximum respect for the American constitution I do think that only able citizens should get guns also because purpose of the amendment is not to possess a gun, but - let me highlight

    A WELL 》 REGULATED 《 MILITIA BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A 》 FREE 《 STATE.

    in USA you have lost, unfortunately, the militia..

    On a separate but related note, a couple of video which I find interesting



  15. #1355

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Meanwhile, the SF legislature declares the NRA a domestic terrorist organization...

    https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx...D-287F02BECCCA

    Resolution declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist
    organization and urging other cities, states, and the federal government to do the
    same.
    I'm curious: has this any practical consequences or this this merely a symbolic act (which still is an interseting move)?
    Everyone laughed at them when they banned plastic straws as well.
    And that does mean ...?!?

  16. #1356
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    With maximum respect for the American constitution I do think that only able citizens should get guns also because purpose of the amendment is not to possess a gun, but - let me highlight

    A WELL 》 REGULATED 《 MILITIA BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A 》 FREE 《 STATE.

    in USA you have lost, unfortunately, the militia..

    On a separate but related note, a couple of video which I find interesting


    In the US there are three different levels ofmilitary organizations: the primary organizations like the US Army, US Navy, US Air Force and US Coast Guard. Then there are the state national guards. They are organized by state but under federal command.

    And then there are the state defense forces under command of the state governors. Those are often called "state militia".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stat...ce?wprov=sfla1

    Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
    nevar forget

  17. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    With maximum respect for the American constitution I do think that only able citizens should get guns also because purpose of the amendment is not to possess a gun, but - let me highlight

    A WELL 》 REGULATED 《 MILITIA BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A 》 FREE 《 STATE.

    in USA you have lost, unfortunately, the militia..

    On a separate but related note, a couple of video which I find interesting


    In the US there are three different levels ofmilitary organizations: the primary organizations like the US Army, US Navy, US Air Force and US Coast Guard. Then there are the state national guards. They are organized by state but under federal command.

    And then there are the state defense forces under command of the state governors. Those are often called "state militia".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stat...ce?wprov=sfla1

    Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
    That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective states, resident therein, who is or shall be of the age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia by the captain or commanding officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this act. And it shall at all times hereafter be the duty of every such captain or commanding officer of a company to enrol every such citizen, as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of eighteen years, or being of the age of eighteen years and under the age of forty-five years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrolment, by a proper non-commissioned officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved.

    That every citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. 1803, ch. 15.

    That the commissioned officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger and espontoon, and that from and after five years from the passing of this act, all muskets for arming the militia as herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for ​balls of the eighteenth part of a pound. And every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

    That within one year after the passing of this act, the militia of the respective states shall be arranged into divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions and companies, as the legislature of each state shall direct; and each division, brigade and regiment, shall be numbered at the formation thereof; and a record made of such numbers in the adjutant-generalís office in the state; and when in the field, or in service in the state, each division, brigade and regiment shall respectively take rank according to their numbers, reckoning the first or lowest number highest in rank. That if the same be convenient, each brigade shall consist of four regiments; each regiment of two battalions; each battalion of five companies; each company of sixty-four privates. by whom officered.

    That the said militia shall be officered by the respective states, as follows: To each division, one major-general and two aids-de-camp, with the rank of major; to each brigade, one brigadier-general, with one brigade inspector, to serve also as brigade-major, with the rank of a major; to each regiment, one lieutenant-colonel commandant; and to each battalion one major; to each company one captain, one lieutenant, one ensign, four sergeants, four corporals, one drummer and one fifer or bugler. That there shall be a regimental staff, to consist of1803, ch. 15, sec. 3. one adjutant and one quartermaster, to rank as lieutenants; one paymaster; one surgeon, and one surgeonís mate; one sergeant-major; one drum-major, and one fife-major.
    Now thatís what I call well-regulated.

  18. #1358
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Meanwhile, the SF legislature declares the NRA a domestic terrorist organization...

    https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx...D-287F02BECCCA

    Resolution declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist
    organization and urging other cities, states, and the federal government to do the
    same.
    I'm curious: has this any practical consequences or this this merely a symbolic act (which still is an interseting move)?
    Everyone laughed at them when they banned plastic straws as well.
    And that does mean ...?!?
    It means when San Francisco banned plastic straws years ago, everyone laughed and pointed at "the looney lefties in commiefornia taking peoples rights away" and now plastic straws are banned (or in the process of being banned) everywhere. SF often leads the country legislatively (gay marriage is another thing done here first) and 5 years later, they entire country is doing the same laws.

    It would not surprise me to see more official condemnation for the NRA following this, growing until it becomes the norm.
    meh

  19. #1359
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    Nah a plastic straw ban is just the annoying type of busy body liberalism that everyone hates.

    You could instead ban the ridiculous amounts of plastic packaging that is used for almost any product. But that might require inconveniencing companies instead of consumers.
    Last edited by mewninn; September 5 2019 at 05:23:54 PM.

  20. #1360
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Nah a plastic straw ban is just the annoying type of busy body liberalism that everyone hates.

    You could instead ban the ridiculous amounts of plastic packaging that is used for almost any product. But that might require lecturing companies instead of consumers.
    Imagine if they banned all single use plastic and bags as well.
    meh

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