[PVP] Harpy

[Warmenhoven]

How are you finding the cap on that second harpy fit? (no cap rig and DCU) only asking cos i've had bad experiences with loosing a fight due to having to choose between going into HAMdreak range or loosing the target because my point and lasers were munching my cap faster than i was munching his armour (so close, so so close. i still cry about it late at night)

[OrangeAfroMan]

I don't fit to engage ships larger than frigs in the Harpy - they're EXTREMELY rare to find solo and usually a trap.

In frig fights cap isn't an issue on my fit (which doesn't use a DCU anymore but even of it did, one cap every 30 seconds is nothing)

[Warmenhoven]

(which doesn't use a DCU anymore but even of it did, one cap every 30 seconds is nothing)

Didn't mean to insinuate the DCU used cap just used it to refer to the fit =]

And yea i know thy're vanishingly rare BUT if i do find one i know i'll kick myself for not being able to take it because it makes you feel like a boss if you manage it. Plus my experience of trying to pull things off blobs is that i tend to have to burn around a bit to try and entice something to come at me. But if you've not been having any trouble i guess i just need to get better at cap management =/

[OrangeAfroMan]

Running mwd only while burning around shouldn't impact your cap too much

[Kalar Freno]

So I decided to try one of these kiting harpies. Here are some (IMHO) slight improvements over some of the fits earlier in the thread:

Deadspace MWD version:
[Harpy, pretty much slicer coreli c]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Tracking Enhancer II

Coreli C-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

1 less dps than lord's fit, but slightly better tracking and a bit more cap stability (that fit is basically cap stable with the webs off). The MWD can be traded out for a meta one without hurting the cap stability quite so much. If you want a DC, you can easily trade one for the TE:

[Harpy, pretty much slicer dc]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

If you're willing to shell out for a T2 Burst rig (you lose about 5 dps), you can obviously do a number of things with the extra slot: ensure cap stability, add polycarb for more speed and agility, or gain a good bit of tracking. You can even upgrade to a T2 point and stay cap-stable, though I don't really know if this would add anything to the ship. I'm looking forward to getting one and having a go!

[Ophichius]

So, in honor of Lords' I named my Harpy 'Pinkie Pie'. She scored her first kill today, an overconfident Slicer pilot who strayed a bit too close. The whole fight from first shot to last was over in 12 seconds.
http://killboard.hedonisticimperativ...ll_id=14055060

That said, I think I may use a variant of Kalar's fit in the future:

[Harpy, Harpy - Pinkamena]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Coreli C-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

It loses 9 DPS compared to Pinkie Pie, but gains 100m/s, 0.3s align, and is completely cap stable with the webs off. Also gains stronger webs. Overall a worthwhile tradeoff I feel.

-O

[Kalar Freno]

I've been enjoying flying them also - it's a fun fit.

I'd recommend a Gisti B MWD over a Coreli C one if you're going to upgrade to a T2 rig - it gives you more cap stability and you can also upgrade your webs to meta4. Last time I checked they were basically the same price.

[Ophichius]

I've been enjoying flying them also - it's a fun fit.

I'd recommend a Gisti B MWD over a Coreli C one if you're going to upgrade to a T2 rig - it gives you more cap stability and you can also upgrade your webs to meta4. Last time I checked they were basically the same price.

Ah, thanks, wasn't really thinking about that when I made the tweak. Saves me the trouble of buying a C-type too, since I've already got the B-type on it.

-O

[Siva Surya]

So I decided to try one of these kiting harpies. Here are some (IMHO) slight improvements over some of the fits earlier in the thread:

Deadspace MWD version:
[Harpy, pretty much slicer coreli c]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Tracking Enhancer II

Coreli C-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

1 less dps than lord's fit, but slightly better tracking and a bit more cap stability (that fit is basically cap stable with the webs off). The MWD can be traded out for a meta one without hurting the cap stability quite so much. :

Are the webs for in case you get caught/get too close? IMHO they won't help you much if you do. Most frigs who aren't kiters fit scram unless they have a web bonus, at which point you'll be going at your base speed. In the mean time, your lack of scram means they still have MWD capability, at which point they'll still be going slightly faster than you even with dual webs on them (you're screwed if they have a web). IMHO if you're dead set on a kiting harpy, try to fit a tracking disruptor plus a cap booster or MASB even, it'll expand your list of potential targets to cruisers.

EDIT: I just thought about it a bit more, I think I see the purpose behind the dual webs. Basically you kite them out for as long as you can, and hopefully by the time you get swung you've dealt enough DPS that their tank is close to breaking, at which point the dual webs keep them off of you just long enough to finish them off. Might work, still definitely risky against good pilots/active tanked ships who swing you pretty quick.

[Ophichius]

You're missing the point. If they're running the MWD under dual scrams they're still effectively stuck out near 9-10km closing at only 20% of their max speed with a huge sig and no transversal. Your rails will happily be ripping into them with 200+ DPS all the way down to 500m if you're any good at piloting. Just -reaching- 500m under webs will take between 10 and 20 seconds, which is 2-4k damage that you've spit out. Also, technically your heated webs reach longer than their heated scram.

Also, that fit basically perma-runs the MWD, given the sigrad bonus on AFs, this means you'll out-run most cruiser guns at range. Once you pop their drones, cruisers will be doing 50 DPS or less to you, which gives you about 100 seconds to kill them and get out in hull. 100 seconds by 200 DPS = 20k damage. Against faction/T2 it really depends on their slot layout and weapons, but anything that's going to drive off the dualweb fit will drive off any other fit anyways.

-O

[Siva Surya]

No, I see the reasoning behind the dual webs and it might work, check my edit. What I am concerned about however is how it would fare against the Wolf and Enyo, two of the most popular AF's. An active-Wolf with a kin-pump would be able to rep 46 of the Harpy's 187 overheated DPS (assuming anti-matter), at which point you're doing 141 dps against a target with 6.2k hp against anti-matter. That means it'll take approximately 43.9s to kill him assuming you hit him perfectly on every shot (which won't happen, so let's say ~50s to kill the Wolf). That's plenty of time for him to swing you with an overheated MWD using his superior speed. Remember, if he swings properly you're not going to have much time to react as he burns at around 3.4km/s overheated towards you - due to lag and human reflexes you're not gonna web him exactly at 13k, more like 10k/11k, at which point he'll be slowing down but still going decently fast. He'll likely end up within 8k of you, at which point he'll be doing about 150 or so dps, enough to break through your 3.2hp (vs. RF EMP S) tank within 20s. Basically, in order to make this work you'll have to kite him for a good ~30s, as it takes ~50s to kill him and it takes him ~20s to kill you at 8k. An Enyo will have even more time due to its hefty resists. A competent Wolf/Enyo pilot should be able to swing you within 25s, though if you're really good with your approach/keep at range commands you could pull this off.

On the other hand this ship should work well against slower AF's like the Veng and bad pilots.

As for how it would do against cruisers, maybe it still would get driven off even with a TD, idk. I'll test that out on and let you know what happens.

[Lex Fasces]

You aren't taking into account loki boosts. Anything with dual webs like biting happy or nano Drake are kinda terrible without the webs heating to 19k...

dual web another frig at 19k and he won't be going anywhere

[Ophichius]

I don't know how you're getting 187 DPS heated, that's low by over 30 points. My fit does 213 heated with CNAM, Lords' does 224.

A Wolf with patched resist holes would be worrisome, but he's slower than the Harpy unless he's unplated and/or hasn't patched his EX hole as well as his KE. He's barely faster if he's only single-rigged and unplated, 100m/s difference. Enyo's the same story. Anything active armor tanked simply isn't fast enough to catch it.

-O

[W0lf Crendraven]

Wouldnt it make more sense (if you take loki links as granted) to use something like this?

[Harpy, pretty much slicer coreli c]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Fourier Transform Tracking Program

Coreli C-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Warp Disruptor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

Ab ships wont catch up to you anyways and i think a scram slows them down way more than a second web.

Put a bit more isk in it:


[Harpy, pretty much slicer coreli c copy 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Fourier Transform Tracking Program

Coreli C-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Domination Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

(or use a cheaper faction scram)

[Siva Surya]

I forgot to include rigs, that's why. I probably shouldn't eft warrior while half asleep. Anyway in my experience it's not too hard to swing ships that are within ~100m/s mwd difference, but you definitely might be able to keep them off you for longer than 30s I suppose depending on your skill relative to theirs. Anyway, I'm working on a nano rail Harpy, gonna test it out tonight on SiSi if anyone wants to join

[OrangeAfroMan]

From experience, the Harpy (my fit anyway) rapes Wolves hard. Even sans gang bonus

[LordsServant]

No, I see the reasoning behind the dual webs and it might work, check my edit. What I am concerned about however is how it would fare against the Wolf and Enyo, two of the most popular AF's. An active-Wolf with a kin-pump would be able to rep 46 of the Harpy's 187 overheated DPS (assuming anti-matter), at which point you're doing 141 dps against a target with 6.2k hp against anti-matter. That means it'll take approximately 43.9s to kill him assuming you hit him perfectly on every shot (which won't happen, so let's say ~50s to kill the Wolf). That's plenty of time for him to swing you with an overheated MWD using his superior speed. Remember, if he swings properly you're not going to have much time to react as he burns at around 3.4km/s overheated towards you - due to lag and human reflexes you're not gonna web him exactly at 13k, more like 10k/11k, at which point he'll be slowing down but still going decently fast. He'll likely end up within 8k of you, at which point he'll be doing about 150 or so dps, enough to break through your 3.2hp (vs. RF EMP S) tank within 20s. Basically, in order to make this work you'll have to kite him for a good ~30s, as it takes ~50s to kill him and it takes him ~20s to kill you at 8k. An Enyo will have even more time due to its hefty resists. A competent Wolf/Enyo pilot should be able to swing you within 25s, though if you're really good with your approach/keep at range commands you could pull this off.

On the other hand this ship should work well against slower AF's like the Veng and bad pilots.

As for how it would do against cruisers, maybe it still would get driven off even with a TD, idk. I'll test that out on and let you know what happens.

I can web at exactly 13-14km as when I know someone is trying to slingshot me, I start spamming f3-f4 hardcore. This, combined with me overheated my own mwd and turning around ASAP is usually enough. Also, I'm dealing fully dps nonstop throughout most of this, I haven't had any issues vs any wolves or enyo's I've encountered(except an arty wolf that I loaded javelin on thinking he'd be an AC fit, but I got away).

Also, I am intentionally not running loki boosts recently with my harpy, and have had no issues even without links. As far as taking on cruisers - I regularly and willingly engage any and all cruisers. Only thing that's even slightly scary is well skilled dual TE (not 2/2 split) shield rupture. That can track me well enough at range to make the dps race in it's favor if I'm in tackle. I recently engaged Worm Maller Maulus Thorax Ishkur true solo - no links, no implants(I had crystals in, but not a single shield booster on my harpy obviously). I solo'd the Thorax, and played range games with the others before ninjaing the plex timer (with them still in the plex) - they warped out shortly after that.

[Dread Operative]

I haven't had any issues vs any wolves or enyo's I've encountered(except an arty wolf that I loaded javelin on thinking he'd be an AC fit, but I got away).

That's not 100% true. You couldn't take my TD Enyo either remember?

[LordsServant]

I haven't had any issues vs any wolves or enyo's I've encountered(except an arty wolf that I loaded javelin on thinking he'd be an AC fit, but I got away).

That's not 100% true. You couldn't take my TD Enyo either remember?

I held range, but then burned in with javelin, but u had already disengaged, so I stopped because ur a chill bro.

I'm fairly certain I could beat u in brawl mode if I swapped to javelin instead of holding range, not hitting for shit because of td. Also, the td enyo can't tackle at all really

[Dread Operative]

I haven't had any issues vs any wolves or enyo's I've encountered(except an arty wolf that I loaded javelin on thinking he'd be an AC fit, but I got away).

That's not 100% true. You couldn't take my TD Enyo either remember?

I held range, but then burned in with javelin, but u had already disengaged, so I stopped because ur a chill bro.

I'm fairly certain I could beat u in brawl mode if I swapped to javelin instead of holding range, not hitting for shit because of td. Also, the td enyo can't tackle at all really

Next time your on, let's give Brawl mode a go. I think it would be really close honestly.