[TMA] The finer points of manual piloting

[Shin_getter]

Double click somewhere in space...sounds simple enough. Making good use of it, isn't. However lots of really smart players play eve so any problems probably has been solved long ago. Here are some of my questions:


1. Reading Radial Velocity in a fight:
It is very important to fly in a vector that mains good radial velocity but not sacrifice the closing rate so it is important to read this number to adjust the flight vector. However, this number is a tiny, ever changing number with too many zeros that is hard to read. Does anyone have tips on this?

2. Spiraling out of a fight:
After making initial tackle and have it handed over to a buddy, disengaging have been one of my cause of death. For one thing your buffer is shot with warriors iis on you, and the other is that it is rather hard to spiral out since you can't see your target in front of you and changing vector away from orbit is always a vulnerability as you burn just far enough to get popped. Is there some good way to do this?

3. Missile Ceptor vs Gun Cepter problem:
Traversal is a issue in most cases only when both sides have very different levels of mobility. Not so much for cepters, and keeping traversal up (or denying it) seems complicated. From how I look at it, it is actually very hard to keep traversal up for the missile cepter, since default "orbit" movement would either result in the Cepter trying to burn away and have no traversal (if opponent is too close), or slow down try to do a hard turn (if opponent is too far) and both result in getting pelted by fire by someone just hitting "approach". Now one could manual pilot, but with that kind of speed pre-orientating the camera to future movement angles is necessary, and I'm sure more experienced guys have ideas they could share on the issue.

4. Relative orbit mechanics:
There are two kinds of orbits, which can be visualized as such:
i. Orbits like running forward with a slingshot aimed to launch forward. I shall call it "parallel" orbit.
ii. Orbits like running forward with a drill pointed to the front. I shall call it "perpendicular" orbit.

In the former, the angular velocity changes as the faster orbiter changes from being in the same direction and in the reversed direction.
In the latter, the angular velocity stays the same.

Now for really fast, tiny ships that guns barely touch, you want an orbit with sustained angular velocity since the question is getting hit or not.

For ships with, larger signature radius, does it make sense to get into a parallel orbit (say Caracal vs a Harb) so that your opponent gets a spike of angular velocity that result in misses that exceeds both the sustained damage reduction from a perpendicular orbit. The precise answer can not be really figure out without "calculus" so I figure I'll ask first.

5. Anti-traversal tactics:
Now, for the faster attacker they usually have a single preferred orbit, as the defender the goal is to break them out of the orbit and into good shots. Now against really fast opponents, "parallel inline movement" is probably the best you can aim for. The problem is how to maximize the amount of time under this condition, and I'd think different differentials in agility and velocity result in different optimal strategies. For a really sluggish ship (oversized AB fit), the best thing to do might be to go as fast as possible while causing a "parallel orbit", while for a equally agile but somewhat slower ship the choice might be to "turn with the opponent."

The really interesting thing happens at the space between them. We all should know that a 180 degree turn changes vector far faster then a orbit-based turn, so it might be possible to get two parallel inline shooting chances per orbit cycle as opposed to one, if a two ships have specific ratios of velocity and agility. Outside of that exact point, one could use calculus to figure out a optimal vector adjustment angle after a parallel shot to maximize the amount of parallel shooting time. Not liking math that much, I wonder if anyone has done any studies on it.

6. Bumping:
They say with prop mods off you coast less distance when bumped, but what happens when you actively command your ship to move to oppose the bumpe, how does the deacceleration after bumps work then?
---
Now that is quit a bit of work to figure out already, though more advanced tactics can be built on it if both sides are aware of the implications....

[drealar]

[ROX Genghis]

[Rudolf Miller]

[joe space]

1. turn it off.

2. depends on if you are tackling with point or scram and what you're in. but assuming you are in something that will explode if it loses transversal for very long but also is not going to be one-shotted (most tackle):
point - manually approach at about 45 degree angle and as you fall into point range switch to "orbit at" and then compensate manually for DANGER!! this is pretty much the easiest thing ever.
scram - really too complicated and situational to answer very well here. in most situations you are probably best off trying to get under guns and killing drones. this is pretty much the trickiest thing ever.

3,4,5. i'm trying. really i am. ... i think what you describe as perpendicular orbit isn't actually an orbit.

6. it doesn't. when you are being bumped all your frantic clicking is doing nothing until your ship has recovered from the bump. never heard the thing about the prop mode, but it makes sense if only because of additional align time. although i've no idea if additional mass from the prop mode compensate for that in any way.

[Raz]

1. Reading Radial Velocity in a fight:
It is very important to fly in a vector that mains good radial velocity but not sacrifice the closing rate so it is important to read this number to adjust the flight vector. However, this number is a tiny, ever changing number with too many zeros that is hard to read. Does anyone have tips on this?

1. turn it off.

First off, you're describing angular velocity, not radial. The radial velocity column on the overview indicates the relative velocity of a target to yourself as a +/-, with a - velocity for closing and a + velocity for gaining range. I find this really useful personally.

The angular velocity column indicates your perpendicular movement to a target in radians per second. While tracking is important, this column isn't. I had it on for a long time and could never be bothered to look at it. I'm with Joe, turn it off. It's pretty easy to visually understand how well you're moving against something at an angle. It helps if you aren't zoomed all the way out.

[Don Pellegrino]

oh wow this thread

[Lachesis VII]

First off, you're describing angular velocity, not radial. The radial velocity column on the overview indicates the relative velocity of a target to yourself as a +/-, with a - velocity for closing and a + velocity for gaining range. I find this really useful personally.

That said the actual radial velocity column is damned handy for telling what targets are approaching you and what ones are going away from you. Very good for alerting you who's burning at you when you're engaging at range.

[joe space]

yeah, that one is pretty handy and i keep it in the far right column so i can slide my overview wider to see it if i like. still, when in the heat of battle i don't usually look at it and when i'm just skirmishing a bit i stayed zoomed out anyway. (actually i keep the tracking one even further to the right but i never use it. i wonder if it slows down the overview. hmmm. maybe i'll delete it just in case.)

[Hydro]

yeah, that one is pretty handy and i keep it in the far right column so i can slide my overview wider to see it if i like. still, when in the heat of battle i don't usually look at it and when i'm just skirmishing a bit i stayed zoomed out anyway. (actually i keep the tracking one even further to the right but i never use it. i wonder if it slows down the overview. hmmm. maybe i'll delete it just in case.)

Pretty much this. I eventually turned all that crap off tbh, except for the columns icon/distance/name/type/velocity/corp/alliance and in that order. Distance, velocity and just overall situational awareness will give you a good indication if someone is chasing after you/fleeing. IMO having too many of these columns just is not helpful because they're keeping you from looking at what's really important in a fight. The only exception I can really think of would be if you had the radial velocity for doing snipey crap with turret ships so you could have a good indication if something simply isn't worth trying to shoot (frigs for example with lots of transversal).

[Resi]

1. Hit approach
2. F1-F8
3. Wake up in station

Works every time

[Smuggo]

1. Hit approach
2. F1-F8
3. Wake up in station

Works every time

Hallo Draek blob pilot.

[Rudolf Miller]

1. Hit approach
2. F1-F8
3. Wake up in station

Works every time

i hate you you lag inducing nubbin

[Resi]

Hallo Draek blob pilot.

Active tanked cyclone

F1 - damage control
F2 - invuln
F3 - MWD
F4 - scram
F5 - turrets
F6 - missiles
F7 - shield booster
F8 - cap booster

[Mr Marram]

Active tanked cyclone

F1 - damage control
F2 - invuln
F3 - MWD
F4 - point
F5 - turrets
F6 - missiles
F7 - shield booster
F8 - cap booster

You showed him. Shift+F5, F6 though

[Jaxley]

I don't bother manually piloting frigs, safe for spiraling in, reducing angular velocity or pulling/closing at least some range now and then from an enemy whose range control is vastly superior (lulz); force what you I think call "parallel orbit" or anticipate an orthogonal flight path and double click there with bursts of AB and such.

Manually orbiting anything up close (safe for slow targets maybe) is just too much of a hassle and too easy to screw up with the unresponsive controls we have. If you can't speed tank sufficiently using "Orbit at 500m", don't try to speed tank tbh.

Manually spiraling out - fuck if I know. Disengage earlier in a straight line?

[Raz]

Manually orbiting anything up close (safe for slow targets maybe) is just too much of a hassle and too easy to screw up with the unresponsive controls we have. If you can't speed tank sufficiently using "Orbit at 500m", don't try to speed tank tbh.

I manually orbit up close in frigs all the time. It's not that hard once you get the hang of it. The counter-intuitive part is that you actually want to go slower than not. Using an AB makes it almost impossible to correctly orbit under 500m. That being said, it's great for getting under the guns of cruisers when you don't have an AB. You can even do this in a BC to tank BS guns.

[Jaxley]

Yeah, cruisers and above should be slow enough. Should've shut down AB and orbit a Harbinger on my own once when my nos couldn't provide me with enough cap.

Also, bring back your avatar. :<

[Raz]

Also, bring back your avatar. :<

Pinkie Pie!

[Jaxley]

^_^