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Thread: [PVP] Phantasm (you look very pretty today)

  1. #21

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    Re: Phantasm

    cap is absolutely god awful on that thing, even with the injector I would be cautious about using the neuts.

    The phantasm used to be a great ship, good ehp (bout the same as a shield cane), good dps and reasonably quick but when they nerfed sansha the good ehp was smacked pretty hard and made the ship average at best
    I recently started playing eve again, haven't really played since they buffed all the other faction cruisers, what/when did they nerf about sansha?

    I just lost a phantasm the other day to a Gila (Because of Falcon). The ship was just sitting around in my hangar left over from AT5. The fittings were all the same from 3ish years ago (except for the now "large" rigs put on after the tournament) so it couldn't have been a fitting nerf, was it just straight up hp/resists nerf or what?

  2. #22
    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Phantasm

    Cap amount, shield amount, and shield regen IIRC

  3. #23

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    Re: Phantasm

    Figured I'd link the fit i've been using of late as I've come across some pretty horibly fit phantasms lately. It handles a lot like a nano cane or drake in efhp/dps while slighly beter in handling/speed. nice change for those bored of flying a bc and its not too expensive.

    [Phantasm, Tal's]
    Damage Control II
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
    Warp Disruptor II
    Invulnerability Field II

    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
    Small Energy Neutralizer II
    Small Energy Neutralizer II

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I


    Hornet EC-300 x3

    380 dps 1.5k/s (1.6 with cheapy speed implants)

  4. #24
    Mr Marram's Avatar
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    Re: Phantasm

    Although then why would you bother with that 380 DPS if you can have a nano harby with the same tank and speed. Better DPS (500 odd) and more drones, also at less than half the price.

    Sadly like alot of ships in eve, its niche but there quite a few other that do that niche better.


    IS-4, T110E5, T-54, E-50, IS-8, M103, T34, Type 59, M26 Pershing, AMX 13 90, KV-3, SU-122-44, AMX AC Mle. 1946, SU-101, T20, T71, T25/2, KV-1S, T21, Jgdpzr IV, Sherman E8, GW Panther, AMX 12t, M18, Stug III, T-50-2, T-34, PzIV, ELC AMX, Crusader, Covenanter, SU-26, T1, RenaultFT.

  5. #25
    Helen's Avatar
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    Re: Phantasm

    CCP really need to tweak this ship again, I want to fly mine.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator DonorGlobal Moderator whispous's Avatar
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    Re: Phantasm

    Give it a range bonus too

  7. #27

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    Re: Phantasm

    Quote Originally Posted by whispous
    Give it a range bonus too
    shield boost bonus of honor. as it is now the ship is a joke and not really good at anything

    my pvp course is on hold atm until after AT unless you make me an offer I cant resist. sorry

  8. #28
    Vortex's Avatar
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    Re: Phantasm

    Ship needs to drop a spare high to another mid, get enough fitting to actually put a medium neut in the last highslot alongside all the other trimmings, and a couple hundred extra cap and shield points. Throwing on a full dronebay over its crappy 15/15 wouldn't hurt either. Its a really beautiful ship, but as everyone has stated, its basically useless. It doesn't do enough damage, it doesn't have enough tank, and its always on the verge of going cap dead for no real reason whatsoever. Compare the Phantasm to the Gila and you'll just start crying. A shield gank harbinger does everything the phantasm does, and at 1/3 the price with better cap and damage and drones.

    Oh, give it a ramming bonus too. Physically impaling a ship onto your spikes should not only be possible, it should be encouraged.

  9. #29
    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Phantasm

    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex
    Oh, give it a ramming bonus too. Physically impaling a ship onto your spikes should not only be possible, it should be encouraged.
    :dowantnao.jpg:

  10. #30
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Necro, and perhaps it's just me, but isn't this thing a frigate killer?

    [Phantasm, PvP frig killer 2 webs LSE not invuln]

    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Stasis Webifier II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Stasis Webifier II
    Warp Scrambler II

    Damage Control II
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


    Warrior II x3

    Could trade a web for an invuln (<8k more ehp?) or TD, or some combo of heatsinks for TEs, but so far it seems to rape frigates (even 3v1, 3rd guy got the hint & ran). Am I just encountering retards on Sisi or would TQ pilots expect at least one utility high to be a Nos and that they could get under the guns of a faction cruiser killmail?
    If you put an invuln instead of a LSE, you can fit 1 Heavy Pulse laser which might bait in even more people? I've flown like I'm trying to kite with scorch, then let them go to get in under guns and suddenly they're dead in the water and I can even usually mwd again if I need to pull some range to track.

    It does align like a brick though (fucking OP Machs) and does munch those cap boosters when all mods running, but this is a gank smaller shit fit, not a brawler. GTFO options are all the tackle to keep things away, 2xmedium neuts, cap booster, decent cruiser speed? and maybe consider 3xEC-300s if you really care?

    Or, 3% PG4 implant, can now hunt tier3 BCs too, or just not agile & fast enough to get in tackle range? Because once there, it should be safe.

    [Phantasm, PvP frig killer 4 dual prop?]

    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
    Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
    10MN Afterburner II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    Large Shield Extender II
    Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

    Damage Control II
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


    Warrior II x3
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; January 16 2012 at 11:48:54 PM.

  11. #31
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    It's a cruiser with lots of mids and utility highs, that's always been a recipe for frigate slaughter. Hell, the celestis does basically the same thing you're doing here, but at 10% the price.

    Being shiny faction bait you're more likely to get people to bite, same with being a 'shitty' shiny faction ship. People remember 'hey isn't that ship a bit crap?' and not 'hey isn't that ship a bit crap -compared to other faction cruisers-'

    Going up against cruisers/BCs you're going to get beaten like a red-headed stepchild.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  12. #32
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    So, does it want a nano/TE and/or TD rather than the 2nd web to help it do it's thing?

  13. #33
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    TC is only 9% better than a second web at tracking small stuff, and you give up significant range control. I'd say it's not worth it. TE won't be worth the straight DPS loss, EHP is a toss-up, but I'd tend to prefer second web over invuln when hunting frigates. Hunting anything else the invuln will be better.

    Going up against tier 3 BCs is mostly bad news. You'll catch 1600-plated, trimarked Oracles and Taloses. (Side note, what's the correct plural of Talos anyways?), Nagas without nanos will eventually be caught by you, but you only enjoy a 140m/s edge on them and they'll be hurling damage at you while you're closing. Nano'ed LSE Oracles will mock you from afar while slicing you to ribbons due to the combination of massive Oracle DPS and your 0% EM resists. Un-nanoed the Talos is faster than you are, so shield fits will outrun you easily. Also, beware the active-tanking Talos. It will absorb your entire damage output while tearing you to ribbons in close quarters. As far as I know only a few folks actually fly that though. Tornados...just, don't bother. They'll load EMP or PP, back off to 20km, and spin circles around you while you die horribly. Alpha Tornado will take your entire shield buffer in a single shot. The second one will either hull you, or flat out kill you.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  14. #34
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    It's not a 0% EM resist. 38.8%, lowest is thermal at 30%. Also doing EM damage to typically-lower resists shield ships, same EHP as shield Tier3 BCs.
    I wasn't thinking blindly chase down any shield/nano tier3 BC, but if you jump in/land on one at close range, you could do far better than if you were in a cane/drake/brutix, no? If at range, just jump out/warp before pointed? One nano is looking worth a HS for in this role, you just need to get to within 13km and you're very suddenly holding them, under their guns, capping them out. It really does need more agility though.
    Actually the rigs arent giving it much EHP at all...
    [Phantasm, PvP tier3 BC killer?]

    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Stasis Webifier II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Stasis Webifier II
    Warp Scrambler II

    Damage Control II
    Heat Sink II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


    Warrior II x3


    Or 2 polycarbs 2 HSs?
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; January 17 2012 at 01:58:28 PM.

  15. #35
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    13km range isn't under the guns on the Naga or Talos. I don't know about the Oracle, and I suspect it's not under the guns of the Tornado, due to the proliferation of TEs on autocannon fits plus the naturally good tracking of ACs.

    Capping out tier 3s is pretty difficult, they have absolutely massive capacitors. By the time your -25 cap/sec has made much of a dent in their 3k+ capacitor the fight will already be over.

    When fighting at close range, you'll destroy any long range fit, obviously. Of the close range fits, the Oracle is the only one I can see being able to reliably get under the guns of. Maybe the Naga too. Neutron LSE Talos will have at least one, more likely two TEs, plus the excellent hull tracking bonus. Dualrep electron Talos will destroy you completely, and the Tornado has excellent tracking down to a few km range. Also, anyone running a dualweb Talos will wreck your day in quite a hurry.

    As a tier3 hunter, I'd recommend something like an armor-tanked fleet stabber or cynabal with TDs over the Phantasm. It simply isn't a good ship for the role. Of course, there are so many terrible tier3 pilots around that it may not matter much.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  16. #36
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    13km is overheated webs range, inside that you're under a long point but they're dual webbed & scrambled, you very quickly become as close as you like.
    Capping them out isn't required then, it's most effective against frigs still which is nice to have.
    Do you think scram, 1 web and then AB or TD would be enough to get under those BS guns and still handle frigs (not forgetting the 2x m neuts and 3 drones)?

  17. #37
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    It'll be close and depend on the enemy fit.

    As for OH web range, that's all good and fine, but vs some ships (notably, Talos), they'll just have you counter-webbed and scrammed, and you'll die in a fire. Naga will have you counter-scrammed, possibly counter-webbed too. Only Oracle/Tornado will be packing long points.

    TD + AB will be your best bet, but I can tell you from testing that the no-web electron Talos has no problems smacking around AFs orbiting at 10km. You're significantly fatter and slower than that.

    In general, I'd stick to going after Tornados and Oracles.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  18. #38
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    If anything I was thinking Tornados were most dangerous for risk of kiting + 2 volley, and I see a lot of shield talos losses & kills using Neutrons in nano gangs, so are they really so often armour-tanked? Can't tell but by their speed, no active invulns to notice running on most fits it seems. Scram on a Naga??
    Eh, frigate killing's fun too. People are expecting their AFs to be pwnsauce soon, right?

  19. #39
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    If anything I was thinking Tornados were most dangerous for risk of kiting + 2 volley, and I see a lot of shield talos losses & kills using Neutrons in nano gangs, so are they really so often armour-tanked? Can't tell but by their speed, no active invulns to notice running on most fits it seems. Scram on a Naga??
    Eh, frigate killing's fun too. People are expecting their AFs to be pwnsauce soon, right?
    To be honest, the only three people I know of who run armor Talos fits are Lord's Servant, me, and a buddy of mine. That said, armor fits will rip you up good. Scram on a blaster Naga is pretty normal as well, since it suits the combat range and gives better range control, which is critical in a blaster boat.

    From a real Eve perspective, almost no one runs the hybrid boats as blasters, since it requires getting stupid close in a ship that's perceived as being very fragile. But you should be aware that engaging an armor Talos will kill you, full stop. Engaging a Blaster Naga is likely to hurt a lot, if not outright kill you as well.

    Alpha Tornados will kill you if you don't have transversal on them, but 1400 tracking is so bad that at close range an AB or TD will insure your complete safety. Getting to close range will be a real problem though. You mentioned starting at close range, presumably short enough to get into 13km and land tackle before they can respond. At those ranges both the Oracle and Tornado will crumble, but you'll be fighting inside the normal engagement envelope of the blaster boats, ergo they're automatically more dangerous. The fact that the Talos is stupid good and can do things like a plated fit with electrons + scram + dualweb, or active repping fit with scram and web just makes it the most lethal ship of the bunch within those engagement parameters.

    At range you are correct that the Tornado poses your single biggest threat due to alpha.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  20. #40
    Takon Orlani's Avatar
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    We've got armor talos. Just need to find a proper fleet to leeroy into. Sucks when most things are nano, but with proper tactics and a derpy enemy it can be done.

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