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Thread: ~Just game company things~ (Corporate malfeasance thread)

  1. #1401

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    I'm with you, Dee.

    But I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle already, especially since Dolly 2.0 has been released, an open source ChatGPT-like AI

  2. #1402
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Refine the chat AI some and it will be great.
    The immersion level in games with be massive if you can have meaningful conversations with random NPC's.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  3. #1403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Jiensai View Post

    AI needs to be regulated into oblivion (no pun intended) right now.
    Then we need to create solid frameworks of what is allowed as input/training data and what supervision the created output has to have.
    These things need to happen NOW and are the very absolute minimum.

    We already had GPT programs tell people that suicide is an option.
    Or desperate singles who were distraught when "their AI girlfriend" seemed like a different "person" after an update.

    Not even talking about the massive amount of privacy and copyright violations those things are, due to all the training material they grabbed without consent from every possible source.

    We cannot let those things loose on a society that is already struggling with seperating fact from fiction, and propaganda from journalism (as rare as that mey have become in some publications).
    Given that a lot of western legislators have no understanding of technology whatsoever that isn't going to happen. It'll also be impossible to regulate given the opensource nature of many existing projects. The cat is out of the bag, the only thing we don't know is how quickly AI tech will be ringfenced by corporate interests and what the consequences of that will be.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  4. #1404
    Dee Jiensai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    (...) what the consequences of that will be.
    For the first time since the computer revolution, the number of actual humans needed by the economy is going to drop sharply within the next 10 years (if that long).
    This is going to do to white collar what modern manufacturing did to blue collar.
    More people with fear about their livelyhood, less money, worse outlook than they were used to.
    This drives larger portions of society into the hands of populists and extremists aided by the complete errosion of what real is and what fake is through AI.

    Act now or embrace the very interesting times we are going to live in.

  5. #1405

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    well, at least that is a positive chance IMO, but we are living in interesting times indeed with this century of find out.

  6. #1406
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...microsoft-deal

    The acquisition gave some staff at Arkane hope that Microsoft might cancel Redfall or, better yet, let them reboot it as a single-player game
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  7. #1407
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...microsoft-deal

    The acquisition gave some staff at Arkane hope that Microsoft might cancel Redfall or, better yet, let them reboot it as a single-player game
    amazing read top to bottom

    three scenarios we have seen multiple times rolled into one big lump of solid fuck

  8. #1408
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    So now Ubisoft is threatening to delete your account and games you have purchased.
    Wonder how this will pan out legally

    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  9. #1409

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    Someone has to challenge that in court, I guess. But I can't see this legally flying in the EU.

  10. #1410
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    They've clarified by now that you only lose your account if there aren't actually any bought games on it. So no losing your games.

  11. #1411

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    I wonder how this works with games purchased outside of Ubisoft, e.g. Steam. IIRC, you still needed to create a Ubisoft account because otherwise their f'ing Ubi launcher won't let you start the game.

  12. #1412
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Fan outcry pushes Pathfinder dev to delete new data-sucking tool and all its info one day after introducing it: 'The scale of the outburst surpassed worst expectations': https://www.pcgamer.com/fan-outcry-p...-expectations/


    Owlcat Games has yanked a controversial new player-tracking tool from Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous just a day after introducing it. On Monday, July 24, Owlcat introduced update 2.1.5m, a hefty patch to the game that—amidst all the bugfixes and tweaks you'd expect from this kind of thing—introduced AppsFlyer, described by Owlcat as "an industry standard tracking solution" that "allows developers and publishers to understand which part of players have purchased the game due to the impact of their advertising campaigns".

    An analytics tool, basically. Owlcat explained in a Q&A on the Steam forums for Wrath of the Righteous that AppsFlyer works by sucking up your IP address, timestamp (when you launched the game), platform, the version of the game you're running, and your OS. It uses that data to create a fingerprint that it then matches against data provided by advertisers, giving Owlcat a rough idea of how many people bought the game after seeing an ad for it online.

    Players were less than thrilled. Not only had AppsFlyer not been present in their versions of Wrath of the Righteous since that game's September 2021 release date, its new hunger for data necessitated an update to the EULA. Players who refused to accept the updated EULA were unable to play the game, effectively removing their access to a product they could have feasibly owned (inasmuch as we own anything in our digital libraries) for nearly two years at this point if they didn't want AppsFlyer grabbing their data.

    I was unclear as to why Owlcat waited so long after release to introduce a tool like AppsFlyer, so I reached out to ask. Unfortunately, I didn't get much of an answer to my question, but the company did offer the following comment: "First and foremost, we made a mistake and apologize to the community. Our rationale was to further Wrath of the Righteous' success by utilizing a user acquisition measurement tool to measure the effectiveness of new ad campaigns. Our implementation of this tracking solution was short-sighted, and when we saw the community response, we easily made the decision to remove it.

    "Our players are the most important thing to us, and we don't want to do anything to break their trust. It was a misstep, and we will not implement any tracking solution into future Wrath of the Righteous updates or our upcoming titles."

    The outcry after the tool's introduction was immediate: Wrath of the Righteous gathered almost 200 negative reviews on Steam on July 24 and 25, sending its "Recent Reviews" score down to Mixed, while a petition on the game's subreddit—calling for Owlcat to remove AppsFlyer—has attracted 3.6K votes at time of writing, with around 3.2K of them calling for the software to either be made opt-in or removed entirely.

    That rather took Owlcat by surprise, apparently. According to one of the studio's company liaisons on Reddit, the pushback prompted an "emergency meeting soon after the [community management] team sounded the alarm," at which point the company made "an on-field decision to take everything down". "Some of us were quite pessimistic about this," said the liaison, "... but the scale of [the] outburst surpassed the worst expectations, and it had to be reacted quickly upon."

    AppsFlyer has been removed from the game as of July 25's 2.1.5n update, just one day after the patch that put it in, and Owlcat says it has deleted "all collected data" from "those who have already accepted the new EULA" in the time between the two patches. The EULA has likewise been restored to its pre-AppsFlyer version, although players will have to re-accept it, since reverting a EULA still counts as changing it according to the arcane legal rules that govern all our lives now. "Our community is much more important to us than a marketing campaign," read an update from the devs.

    Maybe I'm soft—or too inured to companies introducing tech like this and not caring about the fan response—but I have to give credit to Owlcat for responding to the negative pushback this quickly, even if I'd rather it had never tried to introduce AppsFlyer at all. According to that same Reddit liaison, "it took less than an hour" after the devs became aware of fans' vitriolic response for the removal patch to begin prep. What's more, the liaison says "all plans for usage of this software have been shut down, and it is not coming to Rogue Trader or any Pathfinder updates in any way or form." If only it was this easy every time a game introduced some new way to track us across the internet.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  13. #1413
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    That shit was a storm in a teacup. It didn't even gather any particularly useful data, just enough to say X number of unique purchases/game launches followed a given media post, update or DLC launch. 99% of the people who caused the outcry have more intrusive tracking on their phones.

    Big kudos to Owlcat though. As soon as they saw the backlash they pulled it. Nice to see that kind of quick reaction and acknowledgement of player concerns (even if they were largely overblown) in this day and age.

  14. #1414
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    Nice to know they assessed the worst expectation and still went ahead with it, knowing it would be contentious.

  15. #1415

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    Unity game engine developers doing a great job in the community... lmao

    https://www.pcgamer.com/an-astonishi...icing-changes/

    tldr: They have retroactively changed their pricing, the big one being a "per install" chanrge of 20c. Retroactively, anytime someone installs your game, not per purchase.

  16. #1416
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equium Duo View Post
    Unity game engine developers doing a great job in the community... lmao

    https://www.pcgamer.com/an-astonishi...icing-changes/

    tldr: They have retroactively changed their pricing, the big one being a "per install" chanrge of 20c. Retroactively, anytime someone installs your game, not per purchase.
    There is absolutely no way someone will not create an automated solution that continuously installs/uninstalls games on virtual machines en masse.
    Last edited by Nordstern; September 13 2023 at 11:19:13 PM.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  17. #1417

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    Their original release stated that they would use "proprietory algorithms" to determine how many installs there are.

    This is obvious management-speak for "we're going to eyeball it and charge you whatever we want, fuck you very much". The only alternative is Sony-style malware on every device installing a Unity app, which I cannot believe would get through the lawyers.

    Then again, the entire thing is a half-cooked brainfart by an ex-EA manager in pursuit of "number go up".

  18. #1418
    Dee Jiensai's Avatar
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    if it is true what i read, it's even more insane.
    1) apparently it extends to already published games. That means, if you put out a game in the last 2 years, you pay for each install that happens from 2024. you basically need to cancel, or make uninstallable your game that you already sold, or lose money on every future install.
    2) The QnA says that even webGL games and streaming have to pay "for each initialization of the uniti game engine" which is absolutely bonkers.

  19. #1419
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    Can't wait for the first court case
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Also that didn't sound like abloo bloo to me, PM me and we can agree on a meeting spot and settle this with queensberry rules, that's a serious offer btw. I've been a member of this community since 2005 and i've never met a more toxic individual.

  20. #1420
    Super Moderator DonorGlobal Moderator whispous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Can't wait for the first court case
    Pokemon Go is Unity, and it's Microsoft who would be on the line for the fee with gamepass unity games.


    L.O.L. I hope unity was looking forward to being sued into oblivion.

    Of course, regardless of any u-turns and apologies, unity is done. No-one is ever going to stake their company on it again.



    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    locking again cos you're all getting weird and being autists about tyres

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