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Thread: Operation "No more layoffs"

  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    All the space politics is bollox anyway. Nothing but memetic tyranny.
    That's a good phrase. Pure bullshit mind, but when did that ever matter?
    If that is the perception (or even the experience) of many then no, it doesn't ever matter.

    The space politics has ruined eve. Everyone got too cosy, conflict is too difficult in comparison to cooperation and 0.0 is less violent than it needs to be for it to be considered fun.
    That's perhaps the problem. From the outside (as a poteltial new player), space politics is perhaps the most enjoyable/distinguishing/ewsworthy part of EVE. And from the inside, when faced with the actual day-by-day effect of it, the perception is what you described.

  2. #142

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    [Deleted - double post]
    Last edited by Hel OWeen; March 28 2018 at 01:42:30 PM.

  3. #143
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    The game went slightly to shit when the top nerds came back from fanfest going "no the other guys are decent people let's just do good fights" instead of sticking the knife in to the hilt
    To be fair, it's been a while since anybody's really actually felt anything when someone poked the knife - or whatever - in to the hilt. The concept of meaningful hurt was lost a while back, part of me still thinks this had something to do with the mechanics themselves causing way too much hurt for too long. Behavioural effect, sorta.
    Entropy, also in a sandbox game, is probably inevitable. Which is why good game design pushes back on it. Remember: a game universe doesn't have to make sense. So that even without wipes, entropy in a game can be postponed, even avoided altogether.

    But that's not what CCP did. Not because they caused too much hurt for too long, quite the opposite. When they brought in supers and titans, and all the rest of the null goodies, they actually reduced risks, while upping the rewards (and safety) for not going to war.

    During, say, the GNW, corps and alliances risked everything they had in war. But they still did it, because that's where the rewards were as well. There wasn't much else to get it from, really. And if you didn't get the jump on someone, you risked them getting the jump on you. And they generally didn't end up in trench warfare either, because there was nothing to entrench with. And that created chaos, and there's fun (and content) in that, in a game like EVE.

    But that's not where I think EVE is at these days ... not much chaos, too much order, and order is boring ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  4. #144
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    All the space politics is bollox anyway. Nothing but memetic tyranny.
    That's a good phrase. Pure bullshit mind, but when did that ever matter?
    If that is the perception (or even the experience) of many then no, it doesn't ever matter.

    The space politics has ruined eve. Everyone got too cosy, conflict is too difficult in comparison to cooperation and 0.0 is less violent than it needs to be for it to be considered fun.
    Peace is consensual. Anyone who doesn't want it doesn't have to suffer it.
    Yeah so they unsub instead of suffer it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  5. #145
    jimmychrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    The game went slightly to shit when the top nerds came back from fanfest going "no the other guys are decent people let's just do good fights" instead of sticking the knife in to the hilt
    To be fair, it's been a while since anybody's really actually felt anything when someone poked the knife - or whatever - in to the hilt. The concept of meaningful hurt was lost a while back, part of me still thinks this had something to do with the mechanics themselves causing way too much hurt for too long. Behavioural effect, sorta.
    Well a couple of the upstart organizations got hounded to death by bored established groups because moving really hurts. But amongst the big prime movers nothing's really changed in years and years. It's just one factor amongst several but all I'm saying is Roosevelt never went on Hitler's podcast.

  6. #146

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    For years now the few that are willing to face a losing battle have been farmed out of their misery in a quite fast and efficient manner.

  7. #147
    Keckers's Avatar
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    The biggest show of force is often against newcomers trying to join the big boys club in nullsec.

    It should be way way easier to tip over 0.0 sandcastles without being a sov entity, and there should be sufficient motivation for toppling the sandcastles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  8. #148
    Fara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The biggest show of force is often against newcomers trying to join the big boys club in nullsec.

    It should be way way easier to tip over 0.0 sandcastles without being a sov entity, and there should be sufficient motivation for toppling the sandcastles.
    Show of force isn't because you want to prevent them from joining any sort of "big boys club" but because its fun to farm them.

    As for the rest you're spot on. Unfortunately, the lame sov mechanic making it a pita to conquer sov + citadels being meh + the patch when they increased anomaly density in every system have imho not helped making attacks easier&fun&rewarding.

    Especially that anomaly density has destroyed an interesting dynamic where large groups need to expand their borders to serve their members&renters VS phoebe making it hard to stretch over a larger portion of the map and provide protection. It would be super fun to see larger groups struggle to find the right balance with this, unfortunately ccp has fucked that up big.
    Last edited by Fara; March 29 2018 at 10:32:20 AM.

  9. #149
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The biggest show of force is often against newcomers trying to join the big boys club in nullsec.

    It should be way way easier to tip over 0.0 sandcastles without being a sov entity, and there should be sufficient motivation for toppling the sandcastles.
    Show of force isn't because you want to prevent them from joining any sort of "big boys club" but because its fun to farm them.

    As for the rest you're spot on. Unfortunately, the lame sov mechanic making it a pita to conquer sov + citadels being meh + the patch when they increased anomaly density in every system have imho not helped making attacks easier&fun&rewarding.

    Especially that anomaly density has destroyed an interesting dynamic where large groups need to expand their borders to serve their members&renters VS phoebe making it hard to stretch over a larger portion of the map and provide protection. It would be super fun to see larger groups struggle to find the right balance with this, unfortunately ccp has fucked that up big.
    Old story: EVE has been awash with Isk, minerals, and resources etc. Especially in null sect. It means there's little to fight over in that regard.

    There used to be wars over moongoo. How's that these days?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  10. #150
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Eve's only scarce resource nowadays is logged in players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #151
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Eve's only scarce resource nowadays is logged in players.
    How about the massive amounts of (mining) bots of old? They were logged in. They gone now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  12. #152
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Eve's only scarce resource nowadays is logged in players.
    How about the massive amounts of (mining) bots of old? They were logged in. They gone now?
    Hard to track .. so many 1 or 2 day old Mining Ventures running around 23/7 no matter how often you suicide them. Less courier bots these days, though that seems to be in relation to player initiatives against them. Tons of PI bots, which is kinda self explanatory, I often wonder if there's more of those than actual mining bots. Overall I don't have the impression that there's less bots. Just different types and methods.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  13. #153
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Eve's only scarce resource nowadays is logged in players.
    How about the massive amounts of (mining) bots of old? They were logged in. They gone now?
    Hard to track .. so many 1 or 2 day old Mining Ventures running around 23/7 no matter how often you suicide them. Less courier bots these days, though that seems to be in relation to player initiatives against them. Tons of PI bots, which is kinda self explanatory, I often wonder if there's more of those than actual mining bots. Overall I don't have the impression that there's less bots. Just different types and methods.
    So much for the vaunted EVE online economy. Sounds more like this game, and its economy, is gamed from end to end ...

    Not much of a draw for new players, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  14. #154
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Not much of a draw for old players either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #155
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Not much of a draw for old players either.
    Meh, apparently some enjoy looking at their massive piles of imaginary cash ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

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