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Thread: Electricity is scary! [Transportation Thread]

  1. #21
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    I'm really curious to see what is hiding in Tesla's long haul truck
    Kittens and puppies and unicorns!!!

    What I am curious about, does OrangeAfroMan (or other EV cheerleaders) have any background in physical chemistry (particularly electrochemistry), so they can explain how exactly all those "constant improvements" are going to happen?

    Because I get the feeling that they have no fucking clue about how batteries work at all.
    meh

  2. #22
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    I'm really curious to see what is hiding in Tesla's long haul truck
    Kittens and puppies and unicorns!!!

    What I am curious about, does OrangeAfroMan (or other EV cheerleaders) have any background in physical chemistry (particularly electrochemistry), so they can explain how exactly all those "constant improvements" are going to happen?

    Because I get the feeling that they have no fucking clue about how batteries work at all.
    Yes, I do (biology degree I'm seeking requires a lot of chemistry) and if you can't see how EV ranges and general batteries have improved in even the last five years, then I'm not sure anyone can help you
    Actually an '06.

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  3. #23
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Don't give much of a fuck about ludicrous ranges of EV's as long as one lasts enough to get me to my daily commute and within the trip to the shoppes. Which the current ones does for a fraction of the price it costs me with a traditional combustion engined car.

    Which the current generation of EV's does.

  4. #24
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    >excellent vehicles

    Mfw
    Your car can't win a drag race against even the lowest end Tesla. Suck it, babby.

    No but seriously, that kind of acceleration is the definition of excellent. And they're nice looking (on the outside). And basically everything about them looks kickass, except that range limitation. And an ugly interior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  5. #25
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    >excellent vehicles

    Mfw
    Your car can't win a drag race against even the lowest end Tesla. Suck it, babby.
    EV's don't have a tailpipe to to suck on doe
    Last edited by helgur; October 9 2017 at 06:47:16 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Don't give much of a fuck about ludicrous ranges of EV's as long as one lasts enough to get me to my daily commute and within the trip to the shoppes. Which the current ones does for a fraction of the price it costs me with a traditional combustion engined car.

    Which the current generation of EV's does.
    Yep, this applies to the vast majority of drivers.
    Actually an '06.

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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    ROLFMAO.

    A five-year-old slide from investor presentation? That's your extent of knowledge about battery technology?

    You think I don't know about BASF dumping $50 mil into Sion Power and the Li-S batteries in general (which, btw, were around for at least 20 years already)?

    Can you please instead show me the slides that explain how they going to solve the problems of polysulfide shuttling and low electrical conductivity of sulfur cathode?
    Do you even know what those terms mean?

  8. #28
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    And in the meantime a small Swiss company comes up with an absolutely better EV technology, and their prototype car marks the 100k km taken.
    http://nanoflowcell.com

    I would buy their stock if they would sell any.


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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    And in the meantime a small Swiss company comes up with an absolutely better EV technology, and their prototype car marks the 100k km taken.
    http://nanoflowcell.com

    I would buy their stock if they would sell any.
    So they came up with an electrolyte for a flow battery. Stop the presses!

    Quote Originally Posted by nanoflowcell.com
    THE MORE YOU HAVE, THE FURTHER YOU GO …

    For a vehicle powered by a nanoFlowcell, the calculation is simple – the more bi-ION, the greater the available energy and thus the greater the range.
    Holy shit! A totally groundbreaking idea of having a tank with a liquid that can be converted into energy via chemical reaction!

    And GET THIS: the bigger then tank, the greater the range!!!! WOW!

    This is going to revolutionize automotive industry! All we need is a some kind of distributed network of service stations that will sell such liquid in exchange for money.

    #disrupt

      Spoiler:
    The regular gasoline tank size is ~45 liter. Their technology demonstrator car has two tanks of electrolyte, 190 liters total capacity(!). And that's for what looks like a tiny 2+2 roadster the size of a Smart. To get anywhere in a normal-size car you'll need to tow a fucking cistern behind you.

    This is a problem for all electric cars, regardless of technology: shit energy density.
    Last edited by Don Rumata; October 9 2017 at 07:09:28 AM.

  10. #30
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    Bernie sanders would've won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Bernie sanders would've won.

  12. #32

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    ... Are you OK?

  13. #33
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    ROLFMAO.

    A five-year-old slide from investor presentation? That's your extent of knowledge about battery technology?

    You think I don't know about BASF dumping $50 mil into Sion Power and the Li-S batteries in general (which, btw, were around for at least 20 years already)?

    Can you please instead show me the slides that explain how they going to solve the problems of polysulfide shuttling and low electrical conductivity of sulfur cathode?
    Do you even know what those terms mean?
    Gee Don. You make it sound like you are the only dude who ever read a chemistry textbook.

    Smart people are working on it. It's solvable.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.or...-batteries.amp

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The solution is modern cities built around modern, walkable, infrastructure, supported by deep and broad mass transit systems linking centralized city areas, supported by a reliable long-distance national transit system for intercity travel.

    The solution is to understand that these investments are not ever going to be "profitable" on their own, and to be ok with that, and still invest in them, and support them.

    The solution is to limit investment in outdated technology like cars/trucks/roads, electric or not, and start building for a sustainable, environmentally friendly, transit driven future.
    I would agree in principle. And I think I'll never own a car in my life, it's just not necessary in urban centers.

    However, your idea is going to be be difficult to implement in Europe where many cities have tiny narrow streets due to them being centuries older than anything in the US and building a proper mass transit system is a challenge. Of course you could build it underground, but it's expensive. But on a general level, yeah, this.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  15. #35
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Otoh I can't imagine life without a car. Happens when you're an outdoor person :-/


    

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Smart people are working on it. It's solvable.
    If only it was so simple. Smart people have been working on it for over 15 years and still nothing. If I had a dollar for every article that claimed improvement in Li-S shuttling effect, I'd be a millionaire. It may happen, but not in 10 years.

    I also know of this particular work. They use hollow carbon nanospheres to entrap the polysulfides. Those nanospheres cost are about $100 per milligram and are insanely toxic. Nice to demonstrate a proof of concept, virtually impossible to produce on a large scale. This is why EV is difficult compare to regular batteries: SCALE. One electric cars needs as much advanced materials as thousands of mobile phones.

    Tesla built a massive factory just to make enough low-tech batteries for its cars. Tesla makes about 3,000 cars per month. Toyota alone makes over 30,000 cars per day. Do you understand now why all the autistic screeching of Tesla fanboys is so ridiculous?

    In the 20th century we've seen very fast advances in science and technology, simply because there were lots of "low-hanging fruits" to pick. Now we are hitting natural limitations, some will not be possible to overcome, some will simply be too expensive to implement.

  17. #37
    Timaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Otoh I can't imagine life without a car. Happens when you're an outdoor person :-/
    Yeah. But I think that for the ones of us that can avoid owning a car without too much hassle (read: me and many others) should do so just to reduce pollution and building infrastructure to support that would make sense from many viewpoints. Low hanging fruit etc. =)

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Smart people are working on it. It's solvable.
    If only it was so simple. Smart people have been working on it for over 15 years and still nothing. If I had a dollar for every article that claimed improvement in Li-S shuttling effect, I'd be a millionaire. It may happen, but not in 10 years.

    I also know of this particular work. They use hollow carbon nanospheres to entrap the polysulfides. Those nanospheres cost are about $100 per milligram and are insanely toxic. Nice to demonstrate a proof of concept, virtually impossible to produce on a large scale. This is why EV is difficult compare to regular batteries: SCALE. One electric cars needs as much advanced materials as thousands of mobile phones.

    Tesla built a massive factory just to make enough low-tech batteries for its cars. Tesla makes about 3,000 cars per month. Toyota alone makes over 30,000 cars per day. Do you understand now why all the autistic screeching of Tesla fanboys is so ridiculous?

    In the 20th century we've seen very fast advances in science and technology, simply because there were lots of "low-hanging fruits" to pick. Now we are hitting natural limitations, some will not be possible to overcome, some will simply be too expensive to implement.
    I have no clue if what you say is true but what i do know is that you have to start somewhere.
    In my corner of highly urbanized europe EVs are awesome because its rare to commute over 50 km's by car and they help a lot to keep urban area's livable (pollution wise). The government's goal is to have>50% EVs/hybride by 2025. Most likely not feasible but as a goal for us its good.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  19. #39
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Lol at all the idiots saying it will never happen when it literally is happening right now, or implying EVs are at the same point they were 10 years ago.



    In 2017, 1 in 100 new cars sold will be a plug-in-electric vehicle, and that share is growing ever more rapidly.

    And that's global, including poor growth countries like India and Brazil without the infrastructure to support transition to electric vehicles yet. In Norway it's already more than 25%!

    You know where else is pushing EVs hard? China. Almost 40% of all EV sales in the world are in China. If the Chinese government wants to make something happen, it will.
    Last edited by Lallante; October 9 2017 at 10:41:15 AM.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Lol at all the idiots saying it will never happen when it literally is happening right now.
    This.

    My office car-park now has charge stations in 50% of its parking spaces and the majority of them are in use each day. I'm seeing the charge stations crop up all over the place in the UK, they are just quite unnoticeable if someone hasn't already told you what they are.

    Edit: And as said previously, my employer is already trialling electric vehicles for ground transport.
    Last edited by Nicholai Pestot; October 9 2017 at 10:43:21 AM.

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