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Thread: Electricity is scary! [Transportation Thread]

  1. #541
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawinte View Post
    "End of Life Emissions (EXCLUDING BATTERY, KG co2 EQ)"

    Kinda skews it a bit no?

  2. #542

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    electric you say?


  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spawinte View Post
    "End of Life Emissions (EXCLUDING BATTERY, KG co2 EQ)"

    Kinda skews it a bit no?
    Yes. Its half a tonne of battery compared to what, 10kg in a petrol car? Would be interesting to see how including them would change the figures. Also choosing a 4.4litre petrol engine BMW wont give the tesla a particularly hard target to smash

    On the other hand, the BMW is using a fair bit of carbon fibre panels in its construction. Its not very recyclable. Does the tesla use any carbon fibre?

    Basically large luxury cars of any drivetrain type are shit for the environment.

  4. #544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Will the battery pack last 270k km?
    Yes or warranty replacement.
    Top fucking keks on Tesla lasting 270k km in the Midwest, yet alone battery.

  5. #545

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  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spawinte View Post
    "End of Life Emissions (EXCLUDING BATTERY, KG co2 EQ)"

    Kinda skews it a bit no?
    Yes. Its half a tonne of battery compared to what, 10kg in a petrol car? Would be interesting to see how including them would change the figures. Also choosing a 4.4litre petrol engine BMW wont give the tesla a particularly hard target to smash

    On the other hand, the BMW is using a fair bit of carbon fibre panels in its construction. Its not very recyclable. Does the tesla use any carbon fibre?

    Basically large luxury cars of any drivetrain type are shit for the environment.
    The battery itself is apparently the environmental equivalent of driving a combustible engine car for 8.5 years. To be fair I "THINK" they plug that in at use emissions. This is governed by battery size and apparently the most environmentally friendly is a hybrid with a smaller battery, think 30-40 mile or 48-65km per charge. The end of life emissions can be mitigated (70% of emissions mitigated) by battery recycling but apparently this is something that isn't really being done just yet basically 2/3rds of the batteries go unrecycled. So apparently according to environmental studies by global warming groups small battery hybrids is the way to go and large battery having cars like the Chevy bolt and all the Tesla's are just as bad as buying a combustible engine vehicle.

    edit: an interesting sidenote, that means if you have your battery replaced as per Lallantes post your vehicle automatically has the environmental footprint of a combustible engine operating under normal conditions for 17 years. This also adds something to ponder as we move in to the "future", sweeping the environmental impact of a vehicle under the rug of production isn't progress.
    Last edited by Tellenta; November 9 2017 at 04:48:55 PM.

  7. #547
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    Also electric cars don't make a nice vroom vroom noise.

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Also electric cars don't make a nice vroom vroom noise.
    The most important thing.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Don felt extremely uncomfortable having to shake hands with Elon Musk.
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
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  10. #550
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Will the battery pack last 270k km?
    Yes or warranty replacement.
    Top fucking keks on Tesla lasting 270k km in the Midwest, yet alone battery.
    I've heard of 2013 model Taxi TMS's who have had almost 500K km on the odometer with 93%+ of the kw/h left on the battery. Although those cars run almost constantly, which probably wears less on the battery

  11. #551
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    I'd have thought that even though they might be roughly equivalent to petrol atm, the emissions are actually all caught in 1 location making them much easier to capture and deal with, instead of spread across large distances which are all but impossible to capture? So even if it is the same, it's not really because you can just capture the carbon and shove it back underground or whatever...

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Will the battery pack last 270k km?
    Yes or warranty replacement.
    Top fucking keks on Tesla lasting 270k km in the Midwest, yet alone battery.
    I've heard of 2013 model Taxi TMS's who have had almost 500K km on the odometer with 93%+ of the kw/h left on the battery. Although those cars run almost constantly, which probably wears less on the battery
    The American Midwest is notoriously harsh on cars. Some are rustbuckets on the dealer's forecourt.


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    I'd have thought that even though they might be roughly equivalent to petrol atm, the emissions are actually all caught in 1 location making them much easier to capture and deal with, instead of spread across large distances which are all but impossible to capture? So even if it is the same, it's not really because you can just capture the carbon and shove it back underground or whatever...
    Carbon capture is terrible and basically ignored by climate scientists/environmental engineers now.

    The biggest incentive for electric vehicles is city pollution levels. That's the key short term public health problem that needs addressing.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    I'd have thought that even though they might be roughly equivalent to petrol atm, the emissions are actually all caught in 1 location making them much easier to capture and deal with, instead of spread across large distances which are all but impossible to capture? So even if it is the same, it's not really because you can just capture the carbon and shove it back underground or whatever...
    that'snothowitworks.gif

  15. #555
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    This debate on environmental impact is so dumb. Adopting electric cars shouldnt be measured on the impact of current models, but forecasts of what the industry and cars will achieve in 10+ years time.

    This always annoys me with new environmental technologies. You are comparing a technology with total historic global production in the at most 10s of thousands over a handful of years to a different technology with production numbers in the billions and 100 years history. Of course the latter has benefitted from its scale and longevity. But the former has FAR more room for optimisation, efficiency gains and cost reduction.

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    at most 10s of thousands over a handful of years
    Not to niggle too much since I agree with your post, but Tesla alone has already delivered more than 100,000 electric cars. Nissan has sold more than a quarter million Leafs, etc. So we're at least one order of magnitude above your estimate.

  17. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    at most 10s of thousands over a handful of years
    Not to niggle too much since I agree with your post, but Tesla alone has already delivered more than 100,000 electric cars. Nissan has sold more than a quarter million Leafs, etc. So we're at least one order of magnitude above your estimate.
    Not to nitpick but its still orders of magnitude away from ICE car production over time.

  18. #558
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    At the end of the day individual car transport is always going to be terrible on the environment no matter what you do. Investing in rail would be a much better way to make a difference (and not just on emissions) but politicians get lots of money under the table from the car lobby still so constantly push car ownership despite its obvious and unsolvable problems.

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    This debate on environmental impact is so dumb. Adopting electric cars shouldnt be measured on the impact of current models, but forecasts of what the industry and cars will achieve in 10+ years time.

    This always annoys me with new environmental technologies. You are comparing a technology with total historic global production in the at most 10s of thousands over a handful of years to a different technology with production numbers in the billions and 100 years history. Of course the latter has benefitted from its scale and longevity. But the former has FAR more room for optimisation, efficiency gains and cost reduction.
    sorry you find people discussing things they might not be experts in to help understand things more clearly, and a communal sharing of information dumb.

    Im not trying to undermine Tesla. Im being sceptical of the figures presented as that is the best way to approach such things. I have no desire to deny the awful effect of the internal combustion engine on our atmosphere. I didn't address the potential improvements in a relatively new technology as its so far out of my area of expertise and noone had offered any actual figures or points of discussion on it.
    Last edited by Duckslayer; November 9 2017 at 06:10:15 PM.

  20. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    I'd have thought that even though they might be roughly equivalent to petrol atm, the emissions are actually all caught in 1 location making them much easier to capture and deal with, instead of spread across large distances which are all but impossible to capture? So even if it is the same, it's not really because you can just capture the carbon and shove it back underground or whatever...
    Carbon capture is terrible and basically ignored by climate scientists/environmental engineers now.

    The biggest incentive for electric vehicles is city pollution levels. That's the key short term public health problem that needs addressing.
    seems the smartest way to reduce car induced city pollution, no doubt about it.

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